Kimber Rapide 45ACP weird missfeed

[merlynski]

This was a new one to me. I was at a range today and saw a Kimber Rapide do the strangest missfeed I had ever heard of, much less actually seen. This is an almost new pistol with less than 100 rounds through it. Firing Handloaded, 230gr FMJ, new brass, can't remember the powder charge, but is was not a hot load or a wimpy load of Unique. I'll update after I look it up.
The pistol jammed, an unfired round was trapped crooked in the slide. Shooter cleared the round, locked back the slide, dropped the magazine. The previously fired round's empty case was IN THE MAGAZINE, on top of the other unfired rounds. No barrel obstruction afterwards, he checked.
Anybody ever seen or heard of such a thing before??

P.S. Pistol was field stripped, cleaned, and lubed lightly as the manual instructed before going to the range.

 

[Riomouse911]

I’ve seen stacks of different jams, but I’ve never heard of that one. How a fired case was extracted and somehow inserted back in the magazine is one for the ages.

But, I won’t be surprised if the magazine that was in the grip has issues retaining the loaded rounds. I’ll surmise the mag let the top round lift up out of the mag when the slide slid back rather then retaining it flat for the slide to pick up on the return stroke. That’ll be the live round that got caught sideways between the slide and the chamber area of the barrel.

Guns can do some weird things sometimes!

Stay safe.

 

[merlynski]

64 rounds of identical loads and that was the only failure.

 

[Charlie98]

Odd, to be sure.

I have 2 Kimbers... the first thing I do is throw the mags in the trash and substitute Chip's PowerMags.

 

[edwardware]

It's rare, but known. I believe Khunhausen covered it.

 

[merlynski]

It's rare, but known. I believe Khunhausen covered it.

Do you have a link, or any further information?

 

[edwardware]

Do you have a link, or any further information?

It's not in Kuhnhausen after all. . . it's a conglomeration of conversations from a few members here, some of which I've found:

@1911Tuner on ramming an empty into the magazine lips, and following comment by @Jim K : https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/impossible-jam.453659/#post-5651523

Another by @1911Tuner here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-jam-at-least-for-me.306136/#post-3763974

TL : DR: the extractor tension is insufficient (or extractor's clocking) to hold the brass still on the breech face as the pistol rotates upward. The brass moves downward relative to the breech face, into the feed lips. With a harder grip, the pistol wouldn't rotate so much. With a stiffer mag spring, the next round or follower would resist the downward motion. If everything goes wrong just right, it'll stuff the empty back into the mag, or ram it between the mag lips.

Damn but I miss @1911Tuner, @Jim K, and @rcmodel. RIP.

 

[merlynski]

@edwardware Thank you for the additional info.
This missfeed was different than either of those, the empty case was in the magazine in the same position as a normal round would be positioned, below the feed lips, all the way back against the back of the magazine. It also was not the last round fired, there were at least four more unfired rounds below it in the magazine.
No damage to the case either, mouth was round and undinged.

 

[edwardware]

@edwardware
This missfeed was different. . .

But, unless the empty was loaded into the magazine by hand, it was shoved back into the magazine in much the same way, and the solutions are the same. On the other hand, you might well shoot that pistol the rest of your life and never observe the failure mode a second time.

Start with extractor clocking and tension.

 

[merlynski]

Thanks again! Its not mine, but I do expect to see that 1911 again. I will research 'extractor clocking' and see what I can find. I have been a life-long revolver guy, so this is my first trouble shooting session on a 1911.

EDIT: clarify