rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Where is the 1903 Springfield on that poll?
That's the king of mil-sup bolt guns.
rc
That's the king of mil-sup bolt guns.
rc
King of milsurp bolt guns?
- Thread starter Hawksnest
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Float Pilot
Member
The only Mosin I have ever kept is a Finnish M24 with a Swiss Made Sig barrel. It is fairly accurate, although I personally believe the Mosin-Nagant action was pretty much a dead-end after 1900. The rimmed 1890s era cartridge and action can only go so far.
Yes, 7.62x54 rimmed is easy to find NOW, in the USA, but that is only recently true. 30 years ago few folks had Mosins and there was not much ammo.
I have been to over 45 countries thanks to Uncle Sam. I have seen Mausers and Enfields in almost all of them. In places like the South American Continent, you will see AKs and occasionally old Mausers with rebels, but not Mosin Nagants.
Of course while listing a bunch of Mosin variants, you left out the super accurate Swede Mausers, The m48 Yugos, (which are a shorter m-98 variant and can be had brand new. ), the m-91, m-93 and m-95 Mausers. The Springfields, 1903 and 1903A3, and the MKIII type Enfields which were sill being made until the 1970s.
And then there are those French things...
What,,, nobody likes the P-14 and M-1917 Enfields.
Yes, 7.62x54 rimmed is easy to find NOW, in the USA, but that is only recently true. 30 years ago few folks had Mosins and there was not much ammo.
I have been to over 45 countries thanks to Uncle Sam. I have seen Mausers and Enfields in almost all of them. In places like the South American Continent, you will see AKs and occasionally old Mausers with rebels, but not Mosin Nagants.
Of course while listing a bunch of Mosin variants, you left out the super accurate Swede Mausers, The m48 Yugos, (which are a shorter m-98 variant and can be had brand new. ), the m-91, m-93 and m-95 Mausers. The Springfields, 1903 and 1903A3, and the MKIII type Enfields which were sill being made until the 1970s.
And then there are those French things...
What,,, nobody likes the P-14 and M-1917 Enfields.
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Float Pilot
Member
Spec ops Grunt
Yes the Mosins have been around since 1891 (when we developed the Krag Rifle) with little modification or improvement. And for the most part only in ONE cartridge chambering.
The 303 British started in 1888 with the Lee Metford and was constantly improved. As when they went to the Enfield style rifling and smokeless powder, thus making them Lee-Enfields. Once again in predominantly one cartridge chambering, although it was improved.
Mauser started in 1891 with their M-91,
which was later improved to the model of 1893 and later Model of 1895.
And of course the Swedish Model of 1894-Carbine and 1896-Rifle.
Then the Model of 1898.
And if you follow that course then you really have to include the 1903 which is a slightly modified Mauser.
And of course go right up to the 1950s where FN company was making 30-06 (and 308) Mausers for some South American and African countries.
HorseSoldier
Member
The Garand has issues because it's a semi-auto that was built specifically for the mil-spec load. A Mauser converted to 30-06 will be able to handle any load commercially available.
I'd think it would fall under the Mauser entry.
Spec ops Grunt
Member
Likewise, one can find 1950's era Hungarian and Polish Mosins.
db_tanker
Member
4 of the selections on the list reside in my cabinets...of them all the Mauser is my dearest choice...however the Enfield comes a close second, with the K31 being third and MN 4th.
YMMV
D
YMMV
D
Mr_Pale_Horse
Member
The 1903, P14 and P17 are Mausers. Read their patent lists.
Tom609
Member
I agree with those that said the M1903a3. Close behind it would be the Finnish M39...a captured, reworked, and much more accurate Russian Mosin.
Danus ex
Member
Here's how I'd rank what I own/I've owned, from best to worst:
Some rifles just work for you. Others don't.
- Finnish M39
- German K98k
- Polish M44
- Swedish M96
- Swiss K31
- Soviet 91/30
- Persian 98/29
- Swiss G1911
- Finnish M28
- Finnish M91
- Soviet M38
- French MAS 36 (and 36/51)
- Canadian No.4 Mk.1*
- U.S. 1903A3
- Mexican M1910
Some rifles just work for you. Others don't.
Ignition Override
Member
Among other characteristics, the Enfield #4's aperture sight gives it an advantage.
Even using the the short rifle, the Enfield #5 Jungle Carbine's smaller aperture gives me a much better group at 100 yards than a Mauser's open sights.
Even using the the short rifle, the Enfield #5 Jungle Carbine's smaller aperture gives me a much better group at 100 yards than a Mauser's open sights.
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Cost. The CMP is also out of them until sometime in 2011.
Col. Plink
Member
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VZ-24, Nazi contract 'Romanian'
a.k.a. "the bomb-diggity"
a.k.a. "the bomb-diggity"
Vern Humphrey
Member
Which is why I like the 03A3 so much.
Tinpig
Member
Yes!
No one loves CMP more than I do, but there are still good '03s and '03A3s out there on the non-CMP market at reasonable prices. I bought a 1943 Remington 1903A3 with original barrel and a 1929 Springfield 1903 with a '44 HS barrel from a local gunshop in the last couple of years. Both great shooters and easy to reload for, too.
Tinpig
NCsmitty
Member
The 1903 Springfield is essentially a modified Mauser, and the US had to pay compensation to Mauserwerke for patent infringement after it's introduction.
The Mauser Model 1871 was Mauser brothers' first rifle, and was adopted by the German Empire.
Nearly every turn bolt since, has been based on the Mauser design in one way or the other, and that certainly is not a bad thing.
The K31 is a wonderfully accurate design as many can attest to, but it is not the type of rifle that can be dragged through muddy trenches and still function reliably like the Mauser style bolt actions.
NCsmitty
The Mauser Model 1871 was Mauser brothers' first rifle, and was adopted by the German Empire.
Nearly every turn bolt since, has been based on the Mauser design in one way or the other, and that certainly is not a bad thing.
The K31 is a wonderfully accurate design as many can attest to, but it is not the type of rifle that can be dragged through muddy trenches and still function reliably like the Mauser style bolt actions.
NCsmitty
BushyGuy
Member
8mm Krak 98 Mauser
Spec ops Grunt
Member
To nitpick, where's the Arisaka?
It's a Mauser design, too.
allfouledup
Member
The one I shoot the most is my Yugo M24/47. The build quality is good, the action is super slick, accuracy is good enough for my eyes and I bought it for $179 in VG-EXC condition packed in cosmoline (messy but a good preservative). And if you don't mind spending a little extra time cleaning, 1950s Yugo milsurp (corrosive) 8mm ammo can be gotten for as little as 21 cents/round, and go's bang every time. Kicks hard, hits hard. Shoulders and points well. Want a real tack driver? Find a K31 in excellent condition. GP11 Swiss milsurp 7.5x55 is non-corrosive and shoots like match ammo, look around and you can get it for around 55 cents/round.
Cosmoline
Member
What specific Mauser are you looking at? There are some real dogs around, and some very nice ones. If you give info about the make and model choices you're looking at it would be helpful. I'd take a CZ Persian long rifle over a Russian capture K-98k, for example. In generally I'd say get a Czech made one. They're still reasonably priced and are very well made.
There are many different types of Mosin-Nagants--far more than this list would show. The best aren't even on this list. The Finnish M39's and late model M91's and M30's are about the same price as the Swiss K31, and ammo is much much cheaper.
There are many different types of Mosin-Nagants--far more than this list would show. The best aren't even on this list. The Finnish M39's and late model M91's and M30's are about the same price as the Swiss K31, and ammo is much much cheaper.
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allfouledup
Member
You're right Cosmo, the Czech VZ's are an excellent choice, but they are hard to find with matching #'s AND good bores. Not to mention little to no pitting in the exterior steel. What you should be wary of with the VZ's is WHEN they were made. Remember Czechoslovakia was occupied by the Nazis pretty early on during WWII, and some rifles will bear markings indicating manufacture under Waffen SS supervision, meaning slave labor (look for a single "S" on top of the receiver ring that looks a little like a lightning bolt, for example). What I would like to see if I were buying is a : E (rampant lion) 35, on the left side of the receiver ring for example. You can substitute the 35 with any number from 24 thru 37 (the Nazis showed up in '38), and sometimes the lion has a circle around it. If you're really lucky, you may find one with a very large "Rampant Lion" stamped on the top of the ring! VERY COOL! If you want to know all about milsurp Mausers, see: Mauser Bolt Rifles by Ludwig Olson or Mauser Military Rifles of the World by Robert Ball, and: Mauser Military Rifle markings by Terence Lapin. And stay away from any K98's made after 1942 as they were getting bombed, in a hurry, and manufacture quality suffered. Or you can just be cheap like me and buy a hand picked Yugo M24/47 from J&G Sales (Prescott, AZ)for $179 +$10. Mine was near perfect, just needed a new heavier striker spring from Wolff Springs to make the milsurp 8mm Yugo primers go bang every time. Oh yeah, and needed a lot of Cosmoline removed. Good luck!
allfouledup
Member
Had to post twice. I type slow and got timed out. More generally speaking Cosmo, If it looks good, has matching #'s, the original markings have not been "scrubbed" off the receiver, and was not manufactured by slaves or in Germany after '42, or in Spain, and the bore looks bright and not worn out, it's hard to go wrong. Best manufacturers: Germans, Swedes, Czechs, Belgians, Yugoslavs (indicated on the left side receiver rail).
Actually, I totally forgot that one. I know there are so many other fantastic milsurp bolt guns out there, but these few on the poll were the only ones that I've very seriously considered buying in the short-term.
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