Knives and WI

[Silent-Snail]

The open carry thread got me wondering about some stuff, so with no further delay here it is.

1) What are WI knife laws?

2) Does CCW cover knives as well as firearms?

3) Would open carry of a knife produce the same breed or degree of hassle compared to handguns?


More as they come, and thanks in advance.

 

[AJ Dual]

The portion of WI weapons laws that deals with knives says...

- 941.24. Possession of switchblade knife. (1)
Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports,
purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a
blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other
device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or
movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor...

The overriding verbiage of the CCW statute is 941.23 says,

Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous (emphasis, mine...) weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

It provides no definition as to what a "dangerous weapon" is.

So the knife laws are rather open-ended. It seems to me they were more worried about putting the kabosh on switchblades during the nation-wide period of "West Side Story" hype in the 50's and early 60's than anything else.

Otherwise, it leaves lots of discretion to LEO's, DA's, and the judiciary. So in day-to-day life, "dangeroups weapon" is determined by context and intent. A 16 year-old stockboy with a box-cutter waiting to take the bus home from his job at the supermarket? Cool. Pervert with a box-cutter skulking about a girls dormortory at 3 am? Not cool...

There's no length limitations, and by the wording above, "pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement", "assisted openers" like the Kershaw's are legal. (WI Wal-Mart's and other places sell them at any rate...)

Unlike a firearm, a clean-cut guy, or even a relatively seedy guy, minding his own business, would probably never have a problem with most kinds of folder's, inside a pocket, clipped outside, or in a belt-pouch, save for schools or anywhere there's a security checkpoint. (i.e. airports, jails/prisons, courthouses.)

When I'm worried about being PC, but want a blade with me anyway, I just carry a Leatherman Wave or Surge. The drop-point blade is instantly accessable without unfolding the pliers inside just like many other knife-only folders. Nobody cares. Assuming some bliss-ninny sees it and actualy goes beond thinking "gadget geek", (it's never happened to me) you can unfold the pliers and all the screwdrivers first.

About the only places a multi-tool isn't welcome have checkpoints and metal detectors at the door. The other exception is grade and high schools with their zero-tolerance policy. Even then, as a non-student adult who had business in the school, (kids, voting, etc. ) I'd wager nobody would notice 99% of the time...

 

[cosine]

Doesn't Milwaukee have a three inch blade length limit? I recall reading that a while ago. Or was it just for fixed blades?

 

[AJ Dual]

I guess you're right. 3" in Milwaukee.

From the City of Milwaukee Chapter 105 34-2

2. DEFINITIONS. For the purposes of
this section:

a. "Dangerous Weapon" means any
device designed as a weapon and capable of
producing death or great bodily harm, any electric
weapon as defined in s. 941.295(4), Wis. Stats., or
any other device or instrumentality which, in the
manner it is used or intended to be used, is
calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily
harm. The following are dangerous per se:
blackjack, billy, standclub, sandbag, bludgeon,
nunchaku sticks, throwing stars, sling shot, slung
shot, any instrument which impels a missile by
compressed air, spring or other means, any
weapon in which loaded or blank cartridges are
used, crossknuckles, knuckles of any metal,
barbed or blade type arrowhead, bowie knife, dirk
knife, dirk, dagger, switch blade knife or
any knife which has a blade that may be drawn
without the necessity of contact with the blade
itself or is automatically opened by pressure on the
handle or some other part of the knife and is
commonly known as a switch blade knife, straightedge
razor or any other knife having a blade 3
inches or longer. Instruments not herein
specifically enumerated are none the less
considered weapons when they fall within the
terms of this definition.

I guess you're right, Cosine.

Although, assuming you're a person of normal or better inteligence who's not getting chucked into MPD paddy-wagons on a frequent baisis, that rule is pretty irrelavant. If you come into contact with MPD to the point that you're getting frisked, whatever poor judgment you exercised to be put in that position is surely a bigger deal than having a blade over 3" in length on you...

Even then, if you're busted, it's only a city ordinance. You can't even be charged with a misdemeanor for ordinance violations... Just pay up along with any Milwaukee parking tickets, I guess. LOL!

There's all sorts of crazy things in chapter 105 if you care to read it. Stuff that's never enforced, or that's pre-empted by state law. Handgun purchase permits issued by the chief of police, regs on the sale of laser pointers, all sorts of "feel good" stuff that is either meaningless under state law which overrides it, or it's just never enforced. It's hillarious reading...

http://cc.milwaukee.gov:81/isysnati...//199.196.84.35:81/isysquery/irl6fdc/1/hilite

 

[cosine]

Yep, that was it AJ.

Even then, if you're busted, it's only a city ordinance. You can't even be charged with a misdemeanor for ordinance violations... Just pay up along with any Milwaukee parking tickets, I guess. LOL!

I like hearing that. I never was sure what the penalty was for ordinance violations. Even though I wasn't losing any sleep over the blade length limit (I behave myself ) I like to hear that in the weird chance something happens it's only a fine to pay, not a misdemeanor.

That Chapter 105 is pretty crazy. Makes for some good humor.

 

[cracked butt]

The only time I've heard of someone getting charged with having a concealed knife in Milwaukee was a few years ago when one of the City aldermen was caught in his car with a hooker outside of a known drug house and a search of the car turned up a large hunting knife.

 

[Silent-Snail]

What about open carry of a knife with a blade of 5 or 6 inches?

 

[AJ Dual]

That's probably the same as a gun. Legal by state law, but unless you've got context, camping, working in the brush, at a historical re-enactment etc. you'll get hassled by the police.

 

[TrapperReady]

You may want to check out the case of City of Milwaukee vs. Hampton.

Click here for link

BTW, I seem to remember that Racine has a similar ordinance.

 

[cracked butt]

Fricken Milwaukee. And people wonder why I won't go into that city if I can avoid it. I hope the whole damn city slides into lake Michigan. A fillet knife that I use a lot and keep under the seat of my truck is a deadly weapon in Milwaukee but the tire iron right next to is not?

The only time I've heard of someone getting charged with having a concealed knife in Milwaukee was a few years ago when one of the City aldermen was caught in his car with a hooker outside of a known drug house and a search of the car turned up a large hunting knife.

I'll have to reference my last post to illustrate the quality of leadership that works in Milwaukee.

 

[Magic22]

I know this is an older thread but, if the Milwaukee ordinance on blade length is 3" and all that can happen with that is a fine, are there any state or other laws that we should be aware of that carry stricter penalty's? Also, is there any other state law that has anything to do with blade length for open carry. I am looking at getting a fixed blade and would be carrying it on my belt, so I guess I am a bit nervous since this liberal state that we live in has so many stupid laws. Thanks ahead for any help,
Magic

 

[AJ Dual]

The overriding statutes seems to be 941.23 and 941.24, and it has no length limit. It's only criteria is "switchblade" and "concealed and dangerous weapon".
From a state perspective, if it's not a switchblade, and it's not concealed, you are 100% legal.

However, "100% legal" does not mean you won't be arrested, or have your knife confiscated. All that it means is that you'll prevail in court at the end.

I don't know about any other municipal laws. I actualy live in West Allis, but I don't even know what their knife ordinances are. In day-to-day practicality, how you live, go about your business, and how you look matters a lot more, IMO. Especialy over city ordinances.

If you're "clean-cut" and don't have lots of LEO contact, you can probably carry almost anything you want. If you're not "clean-cut", and have LEO contact every now and again, you'll have trouble carrying even a 2" Buck Girl Scout pocketknife.

WI law on knives is both very clear, and murky as mud.

1. 941.23 "No Switchblades" not even a "collector" exemption. Pretty straightforward.

2. 941.24 Is very muddy. Especialy with knives. How big or what kind does a knife have to be for it to be "deadly", for "concealed" to come into play? 1/2" long to the Jugular vein? A 12" Bowie through someone's chest? Where's the line?

Pretty much like most laws written back then. It was designed that way on purpose. It was written post-civil war when blacks were on the move, migrating and settling in states that did not have significant minority populations before then. The "muddiness" of the law is IMO, intentional, so that LEO's and DA's have full authority to ignore the "right" people, and harrass, arrest, and convict the "wrong" people.

It's still this way today. Look and act like the "right" people (and in the "right" areas), if a LEO discovers your knife, it would be extremely rare for you to have an issue beyond a verbal warning, being ordered to put it away, or have it confiscated. Look or act like "wrong" people, (or in the "wrong" areas), and you could be looking at arrest and a misdemeanor conviction.

 

[Monkeyleg]

"A 16 year-old stockboy with a box-cutter waiting to take the bus home from his job at the supermarket? Cool."

A few years ago, a carpet installer was arrested on a city bus for carrying a "switchblade." It was a carpet knife.

 

[Magic22]

Thanks for the help. From reading it over a few times I kind of came to the same conclusion. That whole deadly weapon part is pretty funny. Honestly, anything can be used as a deadly weapon, I just kind of laughed to myself at that part. Thanks again
Magic

 

[Low-Sci]

I think police in Wi are pretty reasonable, and I think most posters are right on the money by saying that if you don't start trouble with police, you more than likely won't get into trouble with the police, and that its also dependent on your record.

I've carried a folding knife since I worked in a hardware store 5 years ago, because Ive always found situations where it was handy. Used it instead of boxcutters for all of my illustrious 5 year stockboy career at a number of different places because it was faster than a boxcutter. It was never really approved of by the management of these various places, but I was industrious enough that they let it slide.

I would say that probably 90% of people can carry a knife, even one thats illegal because of its opening method, and never end up speaking to cops about it in their entire life.

And if you're an average, law-abiding citizen who ends up using his misdemeanor-worthy knife in self-defense or defense of another, all of a sudden that information dwarfs the piddly knife laws.