Knives In Self-defence: What Are Your Objectives?

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I do have to go with sm on the academic aspects of this topic.

To save as many of the THR members as we can, we should be getting professional information out to them to save their lives.

In a very real sense, there's only one big difference between a knife fight and a knife attack. If you're lucky enough or skilled enough to stop the attack you are now in a knife fight.

To my way of thinking, we need professional info to blunt those attacks.
 
Tourist...

With all due respect, I've cut and I've been cut.

I've clubbed and I've been clubbed.

Unless I'm in a small room, I'll take my Louisville Slugger or a 15" Crescent wrench over a knife. It stops things now.

A man immediately stops all anti-social behavior right after receiving a broken forearm or collar bone. There is no waiting period.

Biker
 
To save as many of the THR members as we can, we should be getting professional information out to them to save their lives.

I am just a dumb southern boy , that has never attended any kind of formal training facility.
So what I share plus $8 might get one a cup of Fru-Fru coffee.

-Mindset, paying attention, and raw gut will to survive, is what folks should be focusing on instead of some of the physical items they pay money for.

-Do not telegraph anything, other than you are paying attention.

You start doing some funky move, and the street thug, knows exactly what you are doing before you finish and he/she owns you.

-These "gangs" ain't all droopy britches, with .380 in a Nine with a Chinese Knock off knife.
Oh no.
Some of these "gangs" dress in dress casual, wear .40 cal Glocks, carry Benchmades and when a gun fight erupts, it looks like a damn IDPA/ISPC match , complete with using cover to reload and the mag changes are fast and smooth.

Folks stand next to them in a diner, department store, or anywhere, and never even know that person is a criminal.
That criminal knows you have a Glock 26 at appendix carry and the knife on left pocket is a Benchmade and the one on the left is a Emerson.

They own you, just you got lucky as they had other targets, better targets, with bigger pay offs than you .

You think just because you have a gun, two knives and 6 people with you, going to the Mini-Van in a parking lot, you are safe?
Wrong.
That nice looking gal or guy dressed like they are in IT, with a cane will have your feet out from under you in a heartbeat, and they can draw and get the first shot on target in less than 1.2 seconds.

1.2 seconds because the Internet gun forums "say" 1.5.

Now they have your van, from that parking lot, and your guns as you just left a shooting range, facility.




-Give me a 50 year old Biker with a baseball bat, or Buck 110 he/she scraped gaskets with, and is dull to watch my six.

-That 70 year old man with a well worn Case pocket knife, and Colt Detective Special in his pocket.
He will use his drug store cane, and transition.


-Folks want to be TEEM SEEL, or RangerRick.

Hey, these folks can have and do get any damn thing they want.
Guns,ammo, knives, whetstones, fancy sharpeners, and all sorts of gear.

They dump parts of various guns into a box, shake 'em up, and then sort 'em out to put back and do so in a hurry.

Same folks will be in areas and Blending In. They are not using the fancy guns, or knives.
They have trained to use the local guns, like a single shot shotgun, and to use the local knife.

They may do what the set out to do, and in leaving, drop guns and gear into rivers, lakes, wherever as where they are going they can have nothing.

When they arrive someplace, they get the first stick, and cheesy knife they can get, to blend in and have.

They blend in, and they do not advertise TEEM SEEL or RangerRick.


-Gals, find a UC cop working a street deal with the homeless.

No makeup, don't take a bath, leave the nice gun and knife at home, and get some clothes from the Thrift Store, and do some yard work to get nice and sweaty, being as it is summer, and it hot and humid.

Tip with caveat: get a fake "pregnant tummy" under your clothes, sometimes it means you get a little extra food at the Rescue Mission.

It also means, since you are pregnant , you can't get pregnant, and you might be targeted for rape.
Or, be one targeted for a "doll" and you can trade sex for wine, smokes, dope, gift certs for McDonald's, etc.

Oh yeah baby, you want to see how savvy the streets are, get on the streets.

-Guys, don't shave, and you too get nice and sweaty working in the yard with Thrift Store clothes.
Leave the $2000 custom guns and $300 knives at home.

Tip: Learn how to hand roll a cigarette, and have some papers and tobacco, and matches. Not new, not full, just about half, to share and "get in the loop".
Half a pint of cheap booze is not a bad idea, and get a couple of $5 Gift Certs from McDonalds.

Pay attention and listen to you UC, and I do mean pay attention.

Can you stand at a intersection with a sign begging for money?
How about the "pregnant" gal with you , to really pull heart strings of motorists?

I've done it.
I have been on the streets for up to 2 weeks, living in cardboard boxes, getting a shower in a Rescue Mission, sleeping under a bridge up high....hopped a train, to head to next town and back again.

Some I did for staying safe, defensive reasons if you will.
Other times, for Sociology reasons.
It was about reading people, places and things.
That black man was not a hobo, he had a PhD in Sociology and I wanted to learn from him, some things.



Me and mine could have taken down 4 gals in a diner one night.
All 4 had on gun logo gear, and vests of some type.
Advertising like crazy about "gun".
Keys to the mini van left on the table, and they all went to the bathroom.

Hell, if I and mine had been crooks, wanting to arm rob the joint, we would have shot all 4 of them first in the corner , as we come into the door.

Now I am with UC cops, one a rookie, learning. We looked like disgruntled war Vets.

Now I placed my screwdriver under that bathroom door, meaning these four with guns and knives could not exit.
Seasoned Cop, snagged the key, and went out to the van, made a note of name, address, of the owner of the van.

He came back in, I removed screwdriver and later...
We informed this hot shot gal that was "the gift to women and guns" what we did.

We knew her, and she was flat dangerous, and actually got some gals hurt with her instructing.
She had about 3 years total experience with firearms.


She said I and mine could never take her, or surprise her.
I am 6', with a mustache, and she was "looking" for a guy.
Rain and dark are great friends of mine.
Wearing a ladies raincoat, and umbrella, I used lipstick to slit her throat.

She likes pink and purple, so I used a pink and purple dog leash.
Just slipped over her head, and cinched up, so her arms could not move, slit , took her purse, and ran.

My folks watching and she just stood there with red lipstick across her throat.
She could not reach her "guns" or "knives" (training ones).



These street thugs, are not all dumb.
Some are better trained than those that take training classes.
Crooks do not care about "laws" or "regulations", and they know the law better than many law abiding.

YOU say the thug had a weapon and being in fear, drew and fired.
In the excitement that screwdriver he/she went for, got lost, like he /she threw it in a gutter, a dumpster, the bed of a pickup truck going by, or wherever.

Problem 2.
You drew a knife, or gun and used it to defend.
Where is the weapon the thug was supposed to have?

They know the law better than you do.
IF this happens in a no weapon zone, you are screwed blue and tattooed.
You had a knife in a no weapon area, and dressed as you are is not going to look good, to first responders.

"Hey officer, man I don't know what the lady/fella was thinking, I was just minding my business and she/he knifed me..."

..."no man, I did not have a weapon, my radiator hose is leaking and the screwdriver I used to tighten it, maybe they freaked when I asked if they had some extra anti-freeze or something..."

First Responders are going to see what they see, and hear first what they hear first.


I have been in a courtroom, and trust me, the person in trouble cringed when the weapon and the picture of how they were dressed was tossed on the table.
Dressed in casuals, but the night of the deal they were not.
That stuff on the table, knife, gun, and other stuff sure did raise some eyebrows.

An attorney will ask umpteen times "anything I need to know" and you had better tell the attorney.
For an attorney will cringe seeing them pictures of how dressed and the stuff on the table too.


What am I going to do about it?


Do what I have been for decades, sharing what I know from experiences and observations, and then suggesting folks get to the next level for what they need.

I am over 50 years old, and I know about battered ladies, abused kids, elderly, and physically limited.
We did not have fancy training places, guns, or knives.

WE had evil, and we dealt with folks staying safe from evil.



Folks want "professional input" - go sit in a courtroom . Pay attention and learn.

That courtroom will educate one about what is going on, how it is being done, and the legal aspects for their jurisdictions.

You will not have a gun , knife, nail clippers or anything in that courthouse.
Pay attention as to how law abiding , family and friends of criminals, carry themselves.
The playing field is leveled for you, as the metal detectors and subject to search at the entrance entering the courthouse will do so.

Where else are you going to get the latest updates on what is going on in your area, and how it went down the results in a leveled playing field setting?


So you have a neat knife and gun.
If evil wants them and you, he already owns them, just a matter if it is your turn to be taken down.


Today:
The keys told me what kind of car that fella had, the knife clipped to pocket had me watch hands and he is left handed, so I looked while he bent down.
He has a gun on hip

His mother, looks to be about 65 years old and was sitting in the car, with the A/C on.

Humm.
1. One could take that lady down and steal that car.
2. Get the license and registration and know where this guy lives , as he had a vanity plate that screams "guns"
3. All sorts of options with this guy, I mean use his mom to force him to open a safe full of guns...


Don't look like prey - think like a criminal.
 
Biker said:
Tourist...With all due respect

During my most *ahem* social period, I was more in the haunts of saloons and beer tents. Most people had the implements they would have carried normally in their pockets, and Wisconsin has never had the CCW privilege.

In this setting, any aggression was aimed more at your group than at you personally. In fact, I think the townies actually counted noses before they decided if they were collectively brave enough to do anything.

A townie entering our bar with a bat would have been crushed under a wave of patches before the thing got out of hand. But it never happened.

If I had to characterize those years, I would say "fun," not "fear."
 
Heh heh...which is why I carry a 15" crescent wrench in my saddlebags.

I'm more of a...4%er these days. Old, tired and re-tired, but I made it.

Glad you did, Bro.

Biker
 
Biker,

I am retired from my "adult" job, but now own a little business. It allows me to sleep late, hit the gym late, eat lunch late...

I am an inactive member of a local non-franchising club. My active years were 1969 through 1974. I was never an office holder, but I was the club's official jokester and skirt-catcher. I believe some of my records still stand.

I see the guys irregularly. We just buried another two weeks ago. The good news is that we our having our 40th Anniversary in a few weeks.

This is my current bike, "Black Betty." She's a cammed 95-inch 2004 Dyna Glide with a CVO front end and a 21-inch front wheel. She has a slight bit of chrome, and she has been known to take an on-ramp in a spirited fashion.

DSC00252.jpg

DSC00251.jpg
 
Biker and Tourist,
My chapter allows us old guys, to be awarded an ELDER patch, the council of elders, settles disputes, mentors probies, and such. Have to act like a 0 % er But the old rules still apply "when in doubt knock em out", take care of business, and a 15 inch wrench is a good solution, as is a bar stool or what ever else is handy, get creative.
 
MickandBike.jpg

Tourist, BikerDoc, this is my Baby. Built her mostly myself. 1949 bottom, '75 top. Bored, stroked, cammed...I even customized my crescent wrench with skateboard tape - to keep it from slippin' due to airborne body fluids doncha know.:evil:

The consummate tacticool crescent wrench.

Biker
 
all you folks reading this who don't want to read SM's posts because they're too long or you don't like the writing style: go back and read them.

I ride too. I'm just not a biker. More of a motorcyclist. But, I ride whether it rain or shine, 15 or 115F.

Nice bikes.
I keep an extra kubotan in my jacket and a Gerber multitool.
 
Bikerdoc, we have a similar office for older members. After ten years you get a set of rockers in a different color. You are a "Patriarch," and you have the same duties as in your club.

Biker, yikes, you look like the twin brother of the best man at my wedding! It even looks like you built a similar bike! If that truck behind you is your 250 or 350, you have good taste. My truck is a 1997 F-150. It's my "office."

Now that I know you guys are out there, I also know you'll come to my aid when I'm being trounced in a debate...
 
I know I'm encouraging thread drift, but doesn't chrome add strength and increase visibility? Considering how likely bikers are to get hit by cars, this sounds like a good idea, to me.

J
 
Knife related information: I think knives are an ill choice for SD, but in some confines, better than harsh language.

JShirley said:
increase visibility

Yes, it does increase visibility.

Any biker babe knows the cost of things for a Harley. A guy who pays +1,300 bucks to bling his handlebars is broke or he has used up large chunks of his credit card.

Thus, he has no money to party, buy drinks and take a lady to dinner, and she can see that.

Increased visibility.
 
biker, tourist, wheelgunner,
got your six in a flame war. nobody verbally trounces a brother.
thread related - carry a old= but pristine- schrade LB7 on the handlebar of black heritage softtail
also have a custom of sorts a honda ace 750, black, that has been lowered, and aped. fun project as i got it cheap
raked, jetted, straightpiped, corbin seat and chromed to within a inch of my budget, old lady rides a purple bagger with lots of fufu pinstipping. the most obnoxious pipes i have ever heard, and a real snakeskin tank bib. Her handle bar sport a no name folding hunter. but her favorite trick is
was to hit you with a bottle or chair. More mellow now that we are older
 
You're a wise Man with a fine Ol' Lady, Tourist.

Wish I could afford your chrome.

I always have a knife with me, but I much prefer using it for whittlin' - which I'm not much good at either. Sure can make a pile of wood chips though.

Biker:)
 
Mellow is good these days BikerDoc.

I got a 4th degree black belt in mellow.

Biker:)
 
Screw the knives.

I wanna Harley.

I also want a 125cc "yammer-jammer" (Suzki dirt bike).
These things are downright obnoxious, unless one is riding one.

In a work I am familiar with, bikes are very useful tool for defense.

Bikes can go where a land yacht cannot, meaning one can leave on a Harley and never be picked up as the criminal element were thinking that person would leave in a sedan.

Yammer Jammer will distract the hell out of criminal elements, and other innocent bystanders when being a decoy.
[Forget the minor detail about these not being street legal, I was being a decoy].

Trust me, folks will watch you, and not what is really going on, and the people and mdse that needs to ease out, safe and sound , can do so.

While a deaf blue hair in a Buick may not see or hear a Harley, they can sure "notice" a yammer jammer.

Some folks just need irritatin'

I recommend one be really good with left hand, and I have had excellent results wearing both weak side a gun and fixed blade - and - shoulder holster under strong side, with a gun and fixed blade.
Meaning I carried two guns, and two knives.
I always thought Jackass[tm] shoulder holsters and bikes just sounded like they were made for each other.

Bike knife for me: Custom fixed blade, 3" blade made of 01, and Rosewood handles.

Small Skinner by Valkman will give one an idea how these were made.

Oh , one has to have a Harley, left-handed screw driver and crescent wrench.

A person might have to throttle while screwing and wrenching...
 
Knife related information: I do not carry a knife of any type solely for SD.

Biker said:
Wish I could afford your chrome.

I wish I could afford the chrome on Betty.

She was built in "installments." The bigger engine was done before delivery simply because they had a winter sale, labor included.

The little bar and pad were done one Sunday after a "suggestion" from my wife.

The handlebar bling was done one winter when I foolishly didn't ask for the cost.

The CVO front end, cams, lifters and pushrods were done this past winter. The engine was broken in enough to let the tuner push full throttle on the dynamometer using my racer tuner. Betty accelerates like a scalded cat.

So why didn't I buy a CVO? Several reasons. This is my bike, it should look like my bike. Second, there are parts of a CVO I don't like, I didn't put those parts on. Third, I wanted the "grunt" where I needed it, not some R/D department's opinion.

Finally, even with the bling, I saved between five and six thousand dollars over a complete CVO Dyna.

More for knives (and stories with knife content) here on THR.
 
I just got back home from looking at bikes when I found out my wife was cooking this....
100_2401.gif
Needless to say I ain't got that bike yet.

(John, who can't remember what the original post was:confused:)
 
[A Cane is the] Best everyday SD weapon you can have short of a gun. Unoffensive to the "P.C." crowd, and has the length to keep an attacker at a distance. If I weren't so young I'd probably carry one. Just don't want to get confused for a pimp (anyone see that episode of Seinfeld?). If I were in my fifties or better, I'd have one.

I'm only 26, but of late have suffered some SERIOUS pain in the ball of my right foot.

Apparently my feet don't appreciate the past 9 years where I've spent 40+ hours a week standing on a hard surface at work...;)

Hopefully I'll get it licked with proper footwear and judicious use of NSAIDs, but the above post will offer me a measure of comfort, "don't think problem think opportunity" if it don't! ;)

My dad wanted a S&W pocketknife from BudK and I ordered their white wax wood walking cane at the same time. Eh...I'm about 6 feet tall and I think I need something a little longer than about 41 inches (for use AS a cane). Either that or my technique is no good. ;)

Anyhow, besides giving me a bum foot, my job also won't let me CCW. They "technically" ban all weapons but several of us openly carry pocketknives as we have legitimate use for them as tools in the course of work.

Currently have a CRKT M16 with the 'flipper' - love it!

One advantage I can see with this knife would be the option of using it closed as an "impact tool," namely aiming to hit with the flipper stud. I bet that would smart...

Anyway, with no guns, I figure if a robbery were to go sour I would try to control the BGs gun and use my knife (if I were the one he accosted and was able to get close enough)...

I was planning to go for the face or neck. The lungs SOUND like a good target, but I figure the ribs would get in the way. Then again, I hadn't thought about getting to the lungs via the abdomen...:what:

(Which I guess helps illustrate the idea that even when you've firmly decided to SHOOT someone to defend your own life or those of loved ones, the notion of carving up someone until he stops trying to kill you is NOT something fun to think about).

Then again, maybe trying to shred something important on the wrist of the hand holding the weapon might be a better idea (provided the BG isn't wearing leather or something)...

I also carry OC at work, but unless I KNEW I'd have some "backup" I don't think I'd want to substitute it for the knife if I was at contact distance. I've not had the guts to spray myself directly, but what small doses I HAVE had of it has been...VERY unpleasant...

Anyhow, good topic *goes back to read more*
 
In my nightstand are two weapons.

One a Glock 22, should 15 rounds fail to stop the BG...

The US Navy Mk3 Mod 0 dive knife will. Held with the butt end at the thumb, and the blade facing forward, two things occur.

The butt will break a jaw or cranium, a stunning or killing blow. The knife edge forward will cut on it's way by. It's not going to be easy, it will definately be messy. And once a BG is down, well, then you have some time to consider things.

Knife fighting is up close and personal, it requires an active involvement, you must train and practice and determine your limitations
 
Hi Tourist,

Too bad I didn't know you in the mid 90's.

I worked at a plating company, and could have helped you out decking out your bike(s).

Oh yeah, lots of chrome. Essentially, chrome is just another finish to nickel. First, an item would be nickel finished. Chrome is an addition to nickel, basically a finishing touch. It would have a silvery appearance, as opposed to a more yellowish look, if not chromed.

Later, my friend!

Kerry
 
On topic, I'd have to say that I'm more likely to use the prison style, myself.
I've heard too many stories from ex-cons and seen too much footage to not use it, if it works for that situation.
Otherwise, I'd go for a near instantly fatal strike with whatever blade I had. I'd opt out of bleeding and opt in for CNS shock.
I am, however, looking forward to taking some seminars from Brownie so I can up my knowledge base. I'm sure I don't know anything about it when it comes down to it. I've been cut, but never cut anyone.


We might have started the first virtual M/C club. The High Roaders. :p :)

I carry my 357 on my left side when I'm riding. I'm not really eager to start blasting at someone who's giving me trouble, but the bike I'm riding at the moment isn't exactly a powerhouse or a great handler. So, I can't just zip away anymore.

I do have an acquaintance who duct tapes rocks to the frame of his superglide and actually throws them at people who give him trouble. :scrutiny:
 
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