Krav Maga, is any training "real" training?

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dscottdennison

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Is it just me, or is everything turning to crap? I feel like I have been very dissapointed by everything new that I have tried lately. I am talking about everything from a recent first time cruise to things as trivial as new movies coming out. I don't feel like my expectations are set too high...

Anyway, my most recent dissapointment was with a local Krav Maga training course. I have been trying to find as many training and fitness types of activities as possible lately, and I have always wanted to learn Krav Maga, so I decided to give it a try. I felt like I was in an aerobics class, or doing Tae Bo or something. The organization was very poor, there were skill levels from beginner to expert all mixed in the same class, and all it consisted of was the instructor showing us a move that we were to imitate for a few minutes before moving on. Also, Krav Maga is NOT supposed to be like a martial arts class with bowing and all that nonsense (no offense to anyone who is into that) but this class had all of that.

I realize this isn't entirely possible, but I want as much of a "real" training experience as I can get. You will never know what you are going to do when you are attacked unless you train like you are being attacked. I want someone to come at me with a training knife or a bat or something and have me legitimately in fear of being hurt. A small female instructor holding a pad and coming at me slowly telling me to gently punch the pad is not going to do that.

I also see too many guys at the range, at competition shoots, and etc. who consider competition courses something that will prepare them for a shootout or home invasion. BGs are not going to stand nicely in a row while you stand in a box and shoot them. I want a simunition training course.

Anyway, this is me just venting. How do you guys feel?
 
Sounds to me like you picked the wrong "school". Are there websites and forums local to your area that might have reviews of the different courses available in your area? That might be one place to start.

*Edit to add, I just noticed you're in Louisville. What part of town? I lived there for 6 years and may know someone that could help you out.
 
Part of my frustrations stem from the fact that I live in a smaller area and I don't have much to choose from. For this particular activity, I only have two "schools" available locally (and I was very surprised to even have that many). Unfortunately, the other place looks very similar to the first.

EDIT: I just saw your revision. I am actually in the Lexington area now, but I travel back and forth a lot. Anything in Louisville is still an option.
 
I realize this isn't entirely possible, but I want as much of a "real" training experience as I can get.
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I know a guy who has/owns an MMA school and takes it very seriously. He won’t let new students anywhere near the advanced classes. That includes watching them.

They have a kickboxing class which is essentially a conditioning class that you must take and the instructor must sign off on before you can take anything resembling real fighting techniques.

Basically he believes that if he allows an unconditioned, untrained newbie to attempt real fighting moves he’s going to have serious injuries and lawsuits on his hands.

I also see too many guys at the range, at competition shoots, and etc. who consider competition courses something that will prepare them for a shootout or home invasion.
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Competition courses are the closest thing most people can get to real training on a regular basis. Some of them were started with exactly that in mind.

As with the MMA above if it gets any more real then that people are going to get hurt.
 
Note that I only showed links to Krav Maga training. There are a wealth of schools in both cities that provide good "Force on Force" training of all kinds.
 
Rail Driver:

Thanks for the links. KravMagaKentucky is the one I recently tried. Moberly's is the one I was talking about that looks very similar to kravmagakentucky. I had not seen the foursquare place yet and I had not yet thought about Louisville locations until you mentioned it in your first response.

DPotvin:

People getting hurt is the reason I said I realize it is not entirely possible to do anything any more "real". For gun fighting, I guess the closest thing would be A LOT of simunition type training in more real life scenarios. IDPA for example, which may be one of the competitions you are speaking of which was started with "real" self defense in mind rather than money, does more to train the shooter on gun handling, which is great. I love IDPA for that. I guess I was just saying that no matter what, you never know how you are going to react in a real life and death situation unless you are in a real life and death situation. That cannot realistically be simulated in a safe way. Those scary cardboard cutouts can't give anybody that.

Your friend's MMA class is what I was talking about for hand to hand type stuff. Obviously it takes a lot of training to get to that level, but surely we can do better than "hold this pad while I gently punch at it" for beginners. One of the advertised benefits of Krav Maga is that it can be learned by anyone in a relatively short time.
 
airsoft is another GREAT training aid. Don't discount the "kids toys". With airsoft you can "shoot" each other and get immediate feedback. Don't underestimate the feedback that a 3.5mm(or whatever size they are) plastic bb can give at ~350+fps.

I know more than a handful of combat vets, folks active in personal/executive protection, and other highly defense minded individuals that swear by airsoft training.
 
I can sympathize with your disappointment in today's culture of mediocrity. Likewise with the dearth of good let alone excellent martial arts schools in my area.

Sometimes you just have to reach out further and look for the good ones. For instance, I don't think you would be disappointed if you attend one of southnarc's classes, both CQB and simunition type.
 
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Let's get real

I am now 70 yrs old, I don't expect to get in a physical altercation but who knows. I had minor SD training as an MP back in the 60s and more recently as a correctional officer in the 90s. The commom belief among us was it was mostly a CYA ploy to keep the Government immune from losing a court case, as in "we taught them the proper methods to avoid hurting the perp so it's not our fault." In at least a couple of dozen or more altercations we invariably went to the ground. Here, unless you were well trained and in top condition, college class wrestlers dominated. I was not one of those therefore street fighting, gouging, kneeing, biting, kicking and choking prevailed. Other than breaking a thumb, getting stitches over my eye and breaking a toe I survived. Black eyes, fat lips and minor bruises were to be expected and were usually the result. Training is fine but for some of us the gun is our salvation if given no means to escape. I truly hope I'm not faced with a situation ever again.
Nick
 
dscottdennison,

Howdy, I am a Krav Maga instructor out here in the Denver area. It sounds to me that you got a hold of a one of the cheap imitators in the Krav world.

With whom is this school affiliated? If it isn't Krav Maga Alliance or Krav World Wide it isn't real. Period. If it is and you are getting that kind of "training" please send me a PM I need to talk to some folks at the certifying schools. Here is the deal, several years ago Krav Maga World wide who brought honest to god Krav over from Israel lost their rights to the name "Krav Maga". So now any friggin BS martial art school can offer "Krav Maga" classes as a profit add on. When World Wide lost it's rights there was a split and the chief instructor formed his own Krav school called Krav Maga Alliance. To be a Krav Alliance instructor you must pass a rigorous certification test and have a strong background in Krav Maga. There are 6 instructor levels and it takes 5 to 9 years of training to achieve the advanced levels of instruction 4 through 6.

PS

Level one Krav is going to be basic but you should be doing full power chokes and strikes and defense against, head locks, chokes with a push and a pull, fighting from the ground, and basic defense from 100% power strikes and absorbing right off the get go. You should also be learning all the basic combatives, punching, elbows, kicks, knees, headbutts, so on and so forth.

I teach a weapons defense class after my level one class which consists of hand gun, knife, stick (baton),and long gun defense. And of course with new guys you have to start slow so they can learn the basics.

If I see potential/desire in a student I'll invite them to our fight classes. Not all students want to do this class as it is works it's way into full contact knock out level fighting after you the student are ready for that level of fighting, stand up and grappling.

Here is the deal though, I can't tell you how many "tough" guys I get through the door who want to jump right into the ring and think that since they beat beat up the lunch line bully in 6th grade that they are bad dudes. Unless you have some basic fitness and stance and hand and foot work down, you are going to get destroyed with a real fighter. You kind of need to work up to this stuff.

Like I said it sounds to me like you got into an imitation in name only Krav class. Please send me the details of that gym who they are affiliated with so on and so forth.

Thanks

Greg
 
Yes, airsoft is a good one too, Rail Driver, and much cheaper than simunition. I was also lucky enough at a younger age to have many friends who were into paintball. All of these things hurt just enough to make you pay attention to what you are doing so you don't get shot, and are actually quite good training.

EDIT: Sorry, H&Hhunter, I guess we posted at the same time. Thank you for the very good information. From what you say, it was DEFINITELY an imitation school. I had no idea about the politics behind it. Thank you.

I completely understand that there needs to be a lot of training before the really intense stuff. That is what I want to work up to. I guess I wish I lived closer to Denver... Can you recommend anyone in the Lexington, KY area?
 
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by docnyt:

I can sympathize with your disappointment in today's culture of mediocrity.
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That's exactly what I wanted to say, but articulated better than I would have...sorry I can't offer any help but my view of the world has become very cynical as I get older (I'm 33 now). A lot of things have become crappy. Even since I was a kid in the 80's and 90's. Everything is plastic and electronic and partisan and "reality tv" now. Did you know Snookie is pregnant? Blah. :barf:
 
Plenty of "fake" Krav Maga instructors out there.
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H&Hhunter nailed it on the head when he told me most of the instructors from the gyms that I mentioned above are only "Fit to Fight" certified. That is glorified aerobics.

I knew right away it seemed like an aerobics or Tae Bo class.

That's exactly what I wanted to say, but articulated better than I would have...sorry I can't offer any help but my view of the world has become very cynical as I get older (I'm 33 now). A lot of things have become crappy. Even since I was a kid in the 80's and 90's. Everything is plastic and electronic and partisan and "reality tv" now.
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So I guess we can add one more thing (fake Krav Maga) to the fake and disposable world we live in... depressing...
 
Scott,

Do you practice the KM techniques outside of class?

You will find with any school, any discipline, practicing outside of class is necessary if you want to get any skills from it.

Deaf
 
At least you now know what you don't like. I'd suggest you just visit three or four KM schools and watch a beginners class and see which one appeals to you. From there I'd then try and watch an intermediate or advanced class at one or two of the schools you like and them make a decision.
 
One other thought for someone wanting to increase their self defense knowledge (particularly when there doesn't seem to be any first rate instruction where you happen to be). If you can't find what you want, look up local sport judo classes or organizations. Even the basic level stuff at your local YMCA will have you working up a sweat and all should have you one on one with others at your level. Judo will provide the basics, the sheer physical workout, and the one on one competition that will give you a leg up if and when you find the training you're wanting - whether it's krav maga, brazilian jiu jitsu, aikido or other self defense training.

If you're really fortunate you might find a club or organization that's lucky enough to have one or two young Japanese instructors fresh from the kodokan in Tokyo in the states on student visas to learn English. Many years ago the one or two I encountered were so far ahead of anyone else in both technique and physical conditioning that they could work with students all day long and never even breathe hard.... That early judo training was really a help on the street when I finally got into police work (and I was already a vet with almost four years in the Army).
 
^^^True, Judo is currently not very "tacticool". But it remains a darn good foundation for putting the hurt on someone laying hands on you, as well as just being ultimate for learning how to fall without sustaining damage. Perhaps not the end all be all in the days when everyone has a weapon, but one could certainly do a whole lot worse when it comes to laying the ground work (heh) for further studies.
 
I attended a handful of sessions of Krav at a gym in Aurora prior to this deployment... Greg, it may have been yours. Are you next door to a pottery barn-type store? If so, I'd listen when he talks. I walked through the door with some TKD and MACP background having just completed P90X. I crawled away a believer. Simpler technique, more likely to finish the fight, and carried out at higher speed than most training. Incidentally, also a good workout.

DScott, keep looking man. Don't settle for less. And don't hate on the gun games - just take them for what they are.
 
Oh, I am certainly not hating on the gun games. I "play" them all as much as I can. Airsoft and paintball may sound silly to some as real training, but everything helps.

I will definitely keep looking and keep my hopes up. Many of you have re-encouraged me. Thanks.
 
psyopspec,

Yeah that's us we've got two schools. One in Aurora and the other in Castle Rock. I teach in Castle Rock.

Happy we could provide you with some quality training.

http://www.rmkravmaga.com/
 
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