Kurt Kustom gas piston system for ARs
- Thread starter Beav
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Redlg155
Member
Interesting.
I wonder how it would perform in low light situations or with high flash powders. It looks like an open gas system without a gas tube/shroud and that the gases vent right at the back of the front sight base.
I'd like to have one, but I'd wait until he got his CNC machines geared up and started cranking them out in numbers. My main concern would be the availability of spare gas system parts.
Good Shooting
Red
I wonder how it would perform in low light situations or with high flash powders. It looks like an open gas system without a gas tube/shroud and that the gases vent right at the back of the front sight base.
I'd like to have one, but I'd wait until he got his CNC machines geared up and started cranking them out in numbers. My main concern would be the availability of spare gas system parts.
Good Shooting
Red
atek3
Member
Would it infringe upon Alexander Arm's IP to chamber it in 6.5PPCKKF? (which coincidentally has identical specs to the .26 Grendel and will accept .26 grendel ammo)
Ergonomics of an AR, Reliability of an Op-Rod Rifle,and Ballistics of 26 Grendel, would be great.
atek3
Ergonomics of an AR, Reliability of an Op-Rod Rifle,and Ballistics of 26 Grendel, would be great.
atek3
Badger Arms
Member
Gas pistons on Armalite guns go way back. Colt designed their own system that had a gas system for retrofit on M16's but it never went past prototype stage. Many different patents cover pison systems. The HK M4 is quite a different story. It is a new design that is very efficient and clean. Kurt's is not bad, but will doubtless be as dirty as the Mini-14 which it looks suspiciously like.
One note on that, though. HK told me that they have no plans for a civilian version whereas I'm sure Kurt would sell his to me!
One note on that, though. HK told me that they have no plans for a civilian version whereas I'm sure Kurt would sell his to me!
KurtsKustom
Member
No, it's definately not Mini14-like. I've built these systems too. It keeps the debris out of the action, which is the main thrust of my efforts. Elegant and AFFORDABLE, but I guess there's no market for that...
Thx!
Thx!
Kentucky Rifle
Member In Memoriam
The reason I don't shoot my AR-15 very much is because of the soot that gets in the upper. I like a clean rifle. I'm weary of using Q-Tips on the "nooks" of my AR. I've been cleaning AR-15's and M16's since the 60's. Enough is enough.
KR
KR
Badger Arms
Member
Welcome to the board Kurt. I meant that your system was a fixed piston, moving cylinder with excess gas escaping into the air, it appears, after the cylinder clears the piston. No disrespect intended on that one. Yours is also one of only three gas systems available to the civilian market and, to my knowledge, the only one that isn't an entire receiver system. Do you have any shots of the gun without the upper handguard?
Closer to the point, it looks nearly identical to the Miller/Armalite patent for the gas system on the AR-18. This is an outstanding design. Without seeing the gas system in its entirety, I cannot be sure. Here's a shot of the Miller patent:
And here's the best shot of your gas system that I could see. I'm not saying you ripped it off at all. That's like accusing you of stealing the designs to toast when you make breakfast.
Closer to the point, it looks nearly identical to the Miller/Armalite patent for the gas system on the AR-18. This is an outstanding design. Without seeing the gas system in its entirety, I cannot be sure. Here's a shot of the Miller patent:
And here's the best shot of your gas system that I could see. I'm not saying you ripped it off at all. That's like accusing you of stealing the designs to toast when you make breakfast.
KurtsKustom
Member
Perhaps you are familiar with my work as the BM M17S Kustom Shop. I love the bullpup, and spun my design (with a few changes) from the M17S system. It was so elegantly simple and reliable, I just had to try it. My first effort was to be on a midlength 1/9 CL barrel, but antsy customers wanted to see it in a karbine version, and this is my first generation effort:
This all worked, and my midlength was a snap:
The latest version is what you're seeing on the website. Both Karbine and Midlength versions were tested in select-fire, and I was gold. Thx.
This all worked, and my midlength was a snap:
The latest version is what you're seeing on the website. Both Karbine and Midlength versions were tested in select-fire, and I was gold. Thx.
Redlg155
Member
Another welcome to the board Kurt!
Soo....do you have a definite price on these as of yet?
I'll be in the market very soon for a new Carbine.
Good Shooting
Red
Soo....do you have a definite price on these as of yet?
I'll be in the market very soon for a new Carbine.
Good Shooting
Red
KurtsKustom
Member
Installed systems will start at $150, which includes my proprietary gas block and all other small parts ON YOUR UPPER. Thx!
Badger Arms
Member
When do you want me to send you my upper? It's a mid-length if you will be producing those as well. Also, do I need new handguards? The photos look like it uses M-4 fat handguards. If it does use the fat handguards, how what will the rifle and mid-length versions use? I'd love to see a hybrid with the fat upper and skinny lower handguards and maybe a longer heatshield in the lower to protect the sides of the handguards from excess heat.
A few other questions:
Since the gas rings aren't patented, could you use AR-15 gas rings or a McFarland gas ring in your piston? That would involve cutting the piston to an AR-15 bolt profile, but it might be more advantageous that way. The advantage would be in cylinder galling. The reason the FAL and AK47 gas system rods are required to be so heavy is that they must resist 'whip' where the rod bends like a tuning fork. If you used rings, this 'whip' wouldn't wear the piston unnecessarily as the rings would merely bend with the rod.
This gas system would certainly allow me to remove the gas rings from my AR-15 bolt as they'd no longer be necessary, correct?
What is the material and finish you will be offering? Is this going to be a stainless steel job, or do we get 41xx steel and parkerizing? Chrome plated? Oooohhhh, I like that.
Finally, the excess gas appears to vent into the barrel, much like the M-1 Carbine, correct? Thanks for the photo.
A few other questions:
Since the gas rings aren't patented, could you use AR-15 gas rings or a McFarland gas ring in your piston? That would involve cutting the piston to an AR-15 bolt profile, but it might be more advantageous that way. The advantage would be in cylinder galling. The reason the FAL and AK47 gas system rods are required to be so heavy is that they must resist 'whip' where the rod bends like a tuning fork. If you used rings, this 'whip' wouldn't wear the piston unnecessarily as the rings would merely bend with the rod.
This gas system would certainly allow me to remove the gas rings from my AR-15 bolt as they'd no longer be necessary, correct?
What is the material and finish you will be offering? Is this going to be a stainless steel job, or do we get 41xx steel and parkerizing? Chrome plated? Oooohhhh, I like that.
Finally, the excess gas appears to vent into the barrel, much like the M-1 Carbine, correct? Thanks for the photo.
Very, very nice.
If I ever find a real job, I'll try to give KKF a call after the AW sunset regarding a carbine upper. (there's no point in me ordering a custom upper until then, as I'd just be sending it back after 9/14 to have the barrel threaded and gas block swapped for one with a bayonet lug)
Kharn
If I ever find a real job, I'll try to give KKF a call after the AW sunset regarding a carbine upper. (there's no point in me ordering a custom upper until then, as I'd just be sending it back after 9/14 to have the barrel threaded and gas block swapped for one with a bayonet lug)
Kharn
KurtsKustom
Member
The photos look like it uses M-4 fat handguards. If it does use the fat handguards, how what will the rifle and mid-length versions use? I'd love to see a hybrid with the fat upper and skinny lower handguards and maybe a longer heatshield in the lower to protect the sides of the handguards from excess heat.
CFFFHG's:
I'll try a M203 upper HG.
A few other questions:
Since the gas rings aren't patented, could you use AR-15 gas rings or a McFarland gas ring in your piston? That would involve cutting the piston to an AR-15 bolt profile, but it might be more advantageous that way. The advantage would be in cylinder galling. The reason the FAL and AK47 gas system rods are required to be so heavy is that they must resist 'whip' where the rod bends like a tuning fork. If you used rings, this 'whip' wouldn't wear the piston unnecessarily as the rings would merely bend with the rod.
That's a thought, but it's been a non-issue on the M17S. I'll b testing titanium op rods very soon, and I'm checking on chroming the piston.
This gas system would certainly allow me to remove the gas rings from my AR-15 bolt as they'd no longer be necessary, correct?
Yes, the gas rings become a thing of the past, but still serve to guide/center the bolt body within the carrier.
What is the material and finish you will be offering? Is this going to be a stainless steel job, or do we get 41xx steel and parkerizing? Chrome plated? Oooohhhh, I like that.
Billet steel or aluminum, with SS an option. The gas is contained in SS no matter the body material.
Finally, the excess gas appears to vent into the barrel, much like the M-1 Carbine, correct?
Into the HG and atmosphere.
But will that become available for 20" barrels?
I'm working up a rifle system for the M16/AR15 and also the AR10. Thx.
CFFFHG's:
I'll try a M203 upper HG.
A few other questions:
Since the gas rings aren't patented, could you use AR-15 gas rings or a McFarland gas ring in your piston? That would involve cutting the piston to an AR-15 bolt profile, but it might be more advantageous that way. The advantage would be in cylinder galling. The reason the FAL and AK47 gas system rods are required to be so heavy is that they must resist 'whip' where the rod bends like a tuning fork. If you used rings, this 'whip' wouldn't wear the piston unnecessarily as the rings would merely bend with the rod.
That's a thought, but it's been a non-issue on the M17S. I'll b testing titanium op rods very soon, and I'm checking on chroming the piston.
This gas system would certainly allow me to remove the gas rings from my AR-15 bolt as they'd no longer be necessary, correct?
Yes, the gas rings become a thing of the past, but still serve to guide/center the bolt body within the carrier.
What is the material and finish you will be offering? Is this going to be a stainless steel job, or do we get 41xx steel and parkerizing? Chrome plated? Oooohhhh, I like that.
Billet steel or aluminum, with SS an option. The gas is contained in SS no matter the body material.
Finally, the excess gas appears to vent into the barrel, much like the M-1 Carbine, correct?
Into the HG and atmosphere.
But will that become available for 20" barrels?
I'm working up a rifle system for the M16/AR15 and also the AR10. Thx.
KurtsKustom
Member
I'm still here. The M9EvoM4 was written up in the Oct. issue of Special Weapons for Military and Police:
http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/4699021.htm
It's pictured on my Home Page:
http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/8932.htm
Kurt@KKF
http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/4699021.htm
It's pictured on my Home Page:
http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/8932.htm
Kurt@KKF
Kurts Gas System
Hey Kurt glad to see active from you in here . I was wondering I have a MGI upper made to swap barrels I would buy a gas sytem for each barrel as long as it would be able to be moved with the barrel.
is this possible? I see it might need a rear brace to hold it all to the barrel.
Hey Kurt glad to see active from you in here . I was wondering I have a MGI upper made to swap barrels I would buy a gas sytem for each barrel as long as it would be able to be moved with the barrel.
is this possible? I see it might need a rear brace to hold it all to the barrel.
KurtsKustom
Member
Yes, it'll work anywhere a gastube goes.
Thx!
Thx!
outstanding so it will stay with the barrel, so when I use the quick change barrel i just set each barrel up with the gas piston system. very cool. thanks. It works for all calibers?
I noticed you had quoted a price of 150.00 in this forum but I saw a 300 plus price on your website. did I miss something in details?
oh and also as far as coatings go , you said you were looking into chroming the piston you might want to try the robar NP3 http://www.robarguns.com/np3.htmcoating. I have used it in many guns and it really makes things operate smother than anything I have found. and for others out there ceramic coatings on the inside of unvented all metal hand guards help to keep them cool . actually ceramic coatings do great for friction as well.http://www.calicocoatings.com/coating_solutions_performance_coatings.html
I noticed you had quoted a price of 150.00 in this forum but I saw a 300 plus price on your website. did I miss something in details?
oh and also as far as coatings go , you said you were looking into chroming the piston you might want to try the robar NP3 http://www.robarguns.com/np3.htmcoating. I have used it in many guns and it really makes things operate smother than anything I have found. and for others out there ceramic coatings on the inside of unvented all metal hand guards help to keep them cool . actually ceramic coatings do great for friction as well.http://www.calicocoatings.com/coating_solutions_performance_coatings.html
KurtsKustom
Member
From the website, $395/installed.
The CURRENT link:
M9Evo Info
I'm building 6.8's with the system.
The chroming I need is for bolt's/extractors for my 5.45x39 uppers.
The CURRENT link:
M9Evo Info
I'm building 6.8's with the system.
The chroming I need is for bolt's/extractors for my 5.45x39 uppers.
Last edited:
nalioth
Member
. . but you overlooked the date of that posting.TD-Comp said:
Installed systems will start at $150, which includes my proprietary gas block and all other small parts ON YOUR UPPER. Thx!
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Kurt@KKF
__________________
Nope pretty cut and dry , didnt miss anything. but he aleady answered me as you can see thanks.
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Kurt@KKF
__________________
Nope pretty cut and dry , didnt miss anything. but he aleady answered me as you can see thanks.
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