Kuwait Grenade Attack

[rock jock]

However, if religion turns out to be the deciding factor then I think all Muslim soldiers could possibly pulled from their units for questioning.

Latest reports are that it was religiously motivated. And yes, they should question all Muslims in the military, and their clerics. If any of you find this un-PC, too dang bad! Fifteen injured soldiers and one dead justifies this action beyond any doubt.

 

[Blackhawk]

I agree, Dannyboy. Whenever I was attached to a unit, I still wore the patch of my assigned unit.

Jim Lacey of Newsweek Magazine was on the scene as an embed, and his personal opinion was that this dweeb was religiously motivated Muslim. He also said as a matter of fact that he was attached to the 101st, but he (and the rest of the embeds) may not know what the differences are. He said that the perp had been moody for several days and wasn't talking to others in the unit, but an important fact is that the guys he fragged weren't even in the chain of command the perp was in.

Impersonal, traitorous, fatal, state of war. UCMJ courts martial. Firing squad? Works for me!

And yes, Lawdog, he needs to be tried and convicted before he's shot.

And I really, really, really hope he was NOT a member of the 101st through the normal procedure of becoming a Screaming Eagle.

 

[Dannyboy]

Latest

As of just now (0120), one of the wounded has died. Also, suspect MAY have been Muslim. Not confirmed as of yet, according to Foxnews.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Uh, Blackhawk, not to seem trite, but what IS the normal method of becoming a Screaming Eagle? For me, they just assigned me to the division as a duty station. Went down and had the 101st patches sewn on the BDUs and Class As and that was that. Air Assault school was optional. I went, but I didn't have to.

 

[rock jock]

This whole story makes me so sick. These guys are out in the desert gearing up for combat operations and they are attacked by one of their own. There is no punishment cruel enough IMO for this scum.

 

[Blackhawk]

Sir Galahad,

Sigh...

I'm probably hopelessly out of date.

Time was, AFAIK, that everybody assigned to the division went through jump school (Air Assault training, as you called it), and all the support personnel were attached.

The patch was somewhat like the black Ranger beret was before Shinseki ordered them issued to everybody "to make them feel better about themselves."

 

[publius]

Islam is a huge religion, and it's no more fair to say that this nut's behavior (if this turns out to be true) is typical of Moslems than it would be to say that Tim McVeigh was a typical Christian.

Yeah, you know, on 9/11, when I first heard about planes going into the WTC, I though to myself, gee, could be anybody... no one seems more likely than anyone else.

NOT.

 

[p35]

The last time this country got seriously into "racial profiling", some of my relatives ended up sitting behind barbed wire at Heart Mountain while their son was fighting in the Pacific (someone had to interrogate the captured Japanese soldiers and read their documents). It makes me a little sensitive to blanket accusations of disloyalty against any ethnic group.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Blackhawk, yeah, in the 1980s, folks just got cut orders to go to Campbell and bingo, that's it. I don't believe the 101st has been airborne since the Vietnam War. It's Air Assault now, but getting stationed at Campbell didn't mean you had to go. But everyone (including direct support personnel) still had the airborne tab on the eagle patch and the glider patch on their Class A garrison cap. And bloused jump boots for their Class As, too. The 101st was not one of the better divisions to serve with according to a lot of the older troops. They called it "The Funky Chicken". I guess times change.

 

[Flying V]

Build a gallows to hang six at a drop, and let this traitor swing next to five Iraqi war criminals.

 

[jimpeel]

When I saw this on FoxNEWS my first thought was that some guy fragged his commander. Later news confirmed this suspicion.

This has gone on throughout the history of war when some guy gets fed up with his commander. They usually just take out a Looey, though. This guy tried to take out a bunch of officers and killed a Captain.

 

[Atticus]

The most recent reports indicate that the ACCUSED is an African American- Muslim convert, born and raised in the USA.

 

[Peetmoss]

The accused real name is Mark Kools from Califironia according to MSNBC news

 

[CampX]

I agree, court martial and FIRING SQUAD this S.O.B.....and televise it like everything else in this conflict. Would send the message loud and clear about this sort of decision to frag your own countrymen. Sad really that this B.S. could happen.....it's not like the Viet Nam war where the fighting had been raging on for years; we are only 4 days into this, and this crap happened.

 

[andy]

There are a whole lot of disgruntled people like this in our country who despise the government and do not identify with our culture or our institutions. Expect to see many more traitorous incidents.

 

[publius]

The last time this country got seriously into "racial profiling", some of my relatives ended up sitting behind barbed wire at Heart Mountain while their son was fighting in the Pacific (someone had to interrogate the captured Japanese soldiers and read their documents). It makes me a little sensitive to blanket accusations of disloyalty against any ethnic group.

Did anyone say anything about an "ethnic group"? I must have missed that.

Was there any reason to suspect the loyalty of your relatives, other than their ethnicity and the state of war at the time? In a few cases, there may have been such reason. In most cases, doubtless there was not.

What we have is a problem not with any ethnic group, but with part of a major religion, that being the extremist part. A close friend of mine converted to Islam a few years back. Am I now suspicious of him, expecting he might decide to blow me up for the greater glory of Allah? Of course not.

Still, it is impossible to ignore the fact that there are groups who want to destroy us for religious reasons. I can name several such groups. All from one religion. Maybe I'm just ill-informed or overly propagandized, and I should be able to name as many such groups from every major religion. Hmmmmm.....If that's the case, I look forward to being enlightened.

 

[p35]

Hell, no, there was no reason to doubt their loyalty! No distinctions were made; they just grabbed up everyone of Japanese ancestry and marched them off. There was never a documented case of a Japanese American helping the enemy, which is more than can be said for German or Italian Americans.

Dangerous Christian groups? Lets see... the Aryan Nations Church of Jesus Christ Christian, the Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord, Lambs of Christ, Operation Rescue, World Church of the Creator, and that's just off the top of my head. I suppose you could toss in the Jewish Defense League, although they don't seem very active these days. Maybe they just kill Americans of the "wrong" religion/ethnicity/political belief, not all Americans, but I believe that a threat to one of us should be a threat to all of us.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Its only ok to racially profile people if the person you are looking for is a white male, preferably christian.

Remember the Beltway Sniper? He was supposed to be a disgruntled white guy right?

Except he turned out to be a black and muslim.

Recently at an airport, I saw a 4 yo white girl accompanied by her mother, who was also white, get searched...

I guess we do this so arabs and muslim men won't feel that their civil rights are being violated? Or have white children started hijacking planes?

If a group of red haired guys named O'neal had blown up the WTC, I would be kind of suspicious of the Irish. But they didnt.

Keep your eyes on the ball...

 

[Ala Dan]

Cout Martialed And Then-

Shot Dead At The Break Of The Next Day!


Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[glockten]

There was never a documented case of a Japanese American helping the enemy, which is more than can be said for German or Italian Americans.

Or Muslim Americans.

All this tiptoeing around the truth would be amusing were not the issue so serious. The enemy in the war on terror are Muslim extremists, of any nationality or racial background. By "extremist", I mean any Muslim who contributes in any way to the purposeful deaths of Americans.

I don't advocate "blanket accusations of disloyalty" against American Muslims, but a few more incidents like the Beltway shootings and this fragging, and there's no telling what might happen. Americans of Japanese ancestry were imprisoned in World War II for far less cause.

 

[rock jock]

Extremist is the operative word here. The Jordanians are hleping us out in this war, and while they certainly have their share of would-be terrorists, there are many that want peace in the region and Saddam out of power (if only to ensure their own safety). No one is suggesting that all Muslims in the U.S. military need to be pulled from active duty. But, it would be wise to review records and speak with Muslim American soldiers to get their views on the war and on killing fellow Muslims. If they seem uncomfortable with either, then they should be pulled from duty and sent home. If they say they have no qualms participating fully, great, let 'em stay. But ignoring a potential deadly situation because of PC policies is unacceptable. If folks are offended, tough cookies. The military is not a social experiment.

 

[Blackhawk]

The military is not a social experiment.

Well, not since January, 2001, when adults took over the White House again....

 

[publius]

Dangerous Christian groups? Lets see... the Aryan Nations Church of Jesus Christ Christian, the Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord, Lambs of Christ, Operation Rescue, World Church of the Creator, and that's just off the top of my head. I suppose you could toss in the Jewish Defense League, although they don't seem very active these days.

It's a subjective thing, but none of those strike me as anywhere near as dangerous as Al Queda or Hamas. In order:

Aryan Nations: At least I've heard of them. How many have they killed? Who are their multi-billion dollar backers? How many nations do they operate in? What do they demand from us? I've always thought of them as about 5 or 6 angry white guys, not a threat if you're white and/or not in their neighborhood, wherever that is.

CS&AL: Who?

LoC: Who?

Op Rescue: Definitely a threat if you're an abortion provider. I'm not advocating this, and don't wish to cause this thread to spin out of control, but I'd say that we could implement every one of their demands with really very little change in our society, at least relative to the change that implementing all of Osama's demands would entail. If you're unclear on what Osama wants, I've analyzed it in this thread.

WCC: Who?

JDL: Another "at least I've heard of them." How many have they killed? Who are their multi-billion dollar backers? How many nations do they operate in? What do they demand from us?

There are dangerous extremists, and then there are dangerous extremists. Thanks for the education, but I stand by my original anaylysis of who presents the more dangerous threat.

 

[p35]

I should probably let this drop, but here goes:

Tim McVeigh modeled the Oklahoma City bombing on The Turner Diaries , the "bible" of the loony/racist far right groups. I don't know if he was a formal member of any, but he bought into their thinking enough to kill 168 Americans.

Aryan Nations: Their death toll is only a handful, but they sure have made a nuisance of themselves. What they want is to break my corner of the country off from the rest of the US and make it a "whites only" nation. They are (or were) in my neighborhood and I have two mixed race sons and a Japanese-American wife, so I can't buy the "not my problem" argument. Should I not care about 9/11 because I'm 3000 miles from New York?

CS&A was a Southern white supremacist/survivalist group, I think faded out by now but dangerous in their time.

WCC is a Midwestern neo-Nazi organization; you may recall a year or so ago when one of their members started driving around the Midwest doing drive-by shootings of Jews and non-whites. A few died before the cops got him.

LOC/OR/ Army of God (forgot them) are the violent fringe of the anti-abortion movement and have killed several people; last week one was convicted of sniping a doctor with a "military assault rifle".

The founder of JDL recently killed himself while in jail over a plot to blow up the office of an Arab -American Congressman. The FBI gets more credit than he does for the fact that it failed.

To get back to the original subject, any NCO worth his stripes knows who in his unit is a good troop and who's a s-bird. The alleged grenade thrower was clearly the latter; he got left behind as a discipline problem while the rest of his unit went into Iraq. If the Army wants to go through and take a closer look at the s-birds, great! OTOH, if a Muslim soldier is busting his butt to do a good job in this conflict, as I'm sure most are, it's an unneeded insult to look him up and start questioning his loyalty.

 

[Bahadur]

If a group of red haired guys named O'neal had blown up the WTC, I would be kind of suspicious of the Irish. But they didnt.

Have you been suspicious of male ex-military European-ancestry types when Tim McVeigh turned out to be the perpetrator of the Oklahoma bombing?

I didn't think so.

I recall - very vividly - how just about everyone speculated "Islamic terrorist" in the immediate aftermath of Oklahoma...

Op Rescue: Definitely a threat if you're an abortion provider. I'm not advocating this, and don't wish to cause this thread to spin out of control, but I'd say that we could implement every one of their demands with really very little change in our society, at least relative to the change that implementing all of Osama's demands would entail. If you're unclear on what Osama wants, I've analyzed it in this thread.

You are falling for the "If it's not as evil as Hitler, it isn't really evil" fallacy. There are things "evil enough" that you don't have to reach evilness of Hitlerite monstrosity and proportions before we decide to combat them.

It's a subjective thing, but none of those strike me as anywhere near as dangerous as Al Queda or Hamas.

Yeah, but where were they when the IJN bombed Pearl? "Japs" ("ours" included) sure did seem like huge threats back then because we mentally threw together the enemy of a certain ethnicity with the loyal citizens of the same. It's not that different from mentally throwing together the enemy of a certain religious affiliation with the loyal citizens of the same.

How would we - gun owners - like to be "put in context" by the lunatics who engage in mass murder with guns?