L Frame 41 Mag?

[TTv2]

There are plenty of revolver bullets designed for the original 10mm, the .38-40. Problem is they're the same weight as . 40/10mm auto pistol bullets. Beartooth has a 200gr WFN and that's as close as it gets to something useful. There are halfway decent 220gr bullets but they're designed to feed through a semi-auto. We really need a proper 220-250gr WFN/WLN.

We're probably more likely to see a new proprietary cartridge that mimics the .401PowerMag than a resurrection of the 10mmMag. As I said before, if there were more useful bullets, I'd build one. Until then, I'll probably do a .41 Special and not have to worry about any of this.

Yeah, a 250 grain .401 full wadcutter would be nice.

I agree that .401 Powermag is gone for good, but I feel that the cartridge that could mimic it well would be a rimmed 10mm Magnum, maybe even one that is slightly lengthened to use 250 grain and heavier bullets. The lack of an extractor groove in the "10 RimMag" would strengthen the case slightly, so it could hold up to higher pressures, but the real selling point for the general, low information buyer would be the revolver could also shoot cheap .40 and 10mm Auto off a moon clip.

To get revolvers sold in offbeat calibers it's a really smart thing to design it so it can shoot cheap, available, and lower recoiling ammo like 9mm or .40 to appeal to people. There's a reason .357 is so popular and it's not just because it's a capable and fairly powerful caliber, but because it also shoots cheap, low recoil, and available .38 Special.

Unless the .401 Powermag or whatever proprietary cartridge that replaces it is able to shoot .40 S&W/10mm Auto, it will be doomed to fail.

I hope you understand my point that you're not going to see the bullets you want made for a .401 Powermag type revolver until the gun gets made and even if such a revolver was made you still wouldn't buy it because the heavy bullets are not available yet, so when you do that it gives the gun makers zero incentive to bother and until the guns exist in enough numbers the bullet/ammo manufacturers aren't going to be all gung ho to start cranking them out for guns that don't exist in enough numbers to make a profit.

It would really take a Ruger/Federal type approach like they did with .327 to make it work.

 

[RJM52]

I own one .41 Magnum. It was my first carry gun around 1979. I usually shot the lead semi wadcutters.

Every once in a while, I shot the 210 Gr soft points.

Nostalgia makes me want another .41 Magnum.

When I remember the vicious recoil and the web of my hand bleeding, that nostalgia wears off pretty quick.

That, right there, is the nastiest recoiling revolver I’ve ever owned. Effective? No doubt. But, it’s like a wood splitting maul right in the web of my hand.

I love that gun though.

View attachment 975710

..you might want to try a better set of grips and start out with some of the 950 fps POLICE loads that HSM now markets as their Cowboy Load... Reed's Ammo also has .41 Special ammo available...

As to the .401 PowerMag and no heavy bullets available for a .401/10mm...this was a great article and shows lots of heavy bullets for the .401...

https://gunblast.com/Fryxell_Herters401.htm

 

[CraigC]

Bullets, not moulds.

 

[CraigC]

Yeah, a 250 grain .401 full wadcutter would be nice.

I agree that .401 Powermag is gone for good, but I feel that the cartridge that could mimic it well would be a rimmed 10mm Magnum, maybe even one that is slightly lengthened to use 250 grain and heavier bullets. The lack of an extractor groove in the "10 RimMag" would strengthen the case slightly, so it could hold up to higher pressures, but the real selling point for the general, low information buyer would be the revolver could also shoot cheap .40 and 10mm Auto off a moon clip.

To get revolvers sold in offbeat calibers it's a really smart thing to design it so it can shoot cheap, available, and lower recoiling ammo like 9mm or .40 to appeal to people. There's a reason .357 is so popular and it's not just because it's a capable and fairly powerful caliber, but because it also shoots cheap, low recoil, and available .38 Special.

Unless the .401 Powermag or whatever proprietary cartridge that replaces it is able to shoot .40 S&W/10mm Auto, it will be doomed to fail.

I hope you understand my point that you're not going to see the bullets you want made for a .401 Powermag type revolver until the gun gets made and even if such a revolver was made you still wouldn't buy it because the heavy bullets are not available yet, so when you do that it gives the gun makers zero incentive to bother and until the guns exist in enough numbers the bullet/ammo manufacturers aren't going to be all gung ho to start cranking them out for guns that don't exist in enough numbers to make a profit.

It would really take a Ruger/Federal type approach like they did with .327 to make it work.

It's not so much that it's gone for good but that a new cartridge just seems to be more marketable. It could be a dead ringer for the .401 in every way but with a new name, under a major banner, say Ruger for instance. It would basically be a 10mmMag with a rim. It's a 1.255" case. It would certainly be possible to cut it for moon clips to use .40S&W and 10mm ammo. I would wager that the fact you can shoot .38Spl is a major factor in the .357's popularity.

I understood your point. I would presume that with a new cartridge would come new bullets. Or at least the commercialization of some of the designs in the article linked to above. Even without new bullets, I would definitely buy a factory made .401PowerMag or something like it, if it's built on the right platform. Be it a GP100 or a mid-frame Blackhawk. I'll be first in line. I've just shelved the idea of building a multi-thousand dollar custom around the idea.

 

[TTv2]

Holy crap, CraigC and I agreed on something.

I'll go further with you on .38 being a big reason .357 is so popular... it's the same reason the convertible .357 and .45 Blackhawks are as well. A .357 single action is cool and all, still able to shoot .38, but throw in 9mm and it gets attention. Same goes for the .45 Colt Blackhawk. When most people see the price for that ammo, they about faint, but add a .45 ACP cylinder and they can't whip their wallet out fast enough to buy it.

If by some magic miracle .41 Magnum had the ability to shoot .40S&W and 10mm Auto, it would be much more popular than it is today.

For marketing purposes, .401 Powermag it doesn't jump out at people and give them a thought that it's connected to 10mm Auto or .40 S&W, whereas 10mm Magnum or 10mm Rim Mag instantly makes that connection. A new cartridge, even if it's a veritable clone of .401 PMag in near every way, if Federal/Remington/Winchester/etc can put their own name and brand on it (.44 Remington Magnum, .327 Federal Magnum, .22 Winchester Magnum) they love the free marketing every time someone says 10mm Federal Magnum.

 

[MikeInOr]

When I look at .410 vs .429 the .429 just seems so much more universal and available. Since I reload 41 magnum never really made sense to me because I already own multiple .44 magnums that I can reload to pretty much what ever specs I want to.

 

[CraigC]

Holy crap, CraigC and I agreed on something.

I'll go further with you on .38 being a big reason .357 is so popular... it's the same reason the convertible .357 and .45 Blackhawks are as well. A .357 single action is cool and all, still able to shoot .38, but throw in 9mm and it gets attention. Same goes for the .45 Colt Blackhawk. When most people see the price for that ammo, they about faint, but add a .45 ACP cylinder and they can't whip their wallet out fast enough to buy it.

If by some magic miracle .41 Magnum had the ability to shoot .40S&W and 10mm Auto, it would be much more popular than it is today.

For marketing purposes, .401 Powermag it doesn't jump out at people and give them a thought that it's connected to 10mm Auto or .40 S&W, whereas 10mm Magnum or 10mm Rim Mag instantly makes that connection. A new cartridge, even if it's a veritable clone of .401 PMag in near every way, if Federal/Remington/Winchester/etc can put their own name and brand on it (.44 Remington Magnum, .327 Federal Magnum, .22 Winchester Magnum) they love the free marketing every time someone says 10mm Federal Magnum.

I think that's part of it but a lot of folks are still weird about auto cartridges in a revolver, even though it's been done for over 100yrs. Which is really a shame.

I could be wrong but a brand new cartridge, even if it follows the .401's cartridge drawing to the letter, seems more likely than resurrecting the old one. It would have to be redeveloped anyway. It could run 50,000psi and not be a danger to the old guns. I think .400 Ruger has a nice ring to it. You know Colt was working on a .400 magnum years ago but shelved it.

 

[TTv2]

I think that's part of it but a lot of folks are still weird about auto cartridges in a revolver, even though it's been done for over 100yrs. Which is really a shame.

I could be wrong but a brand new cartridge, even if it follows the .401's cartridge drawing to the letter, seems more likely than resurrecting the old one. It would have to be redeveloped anyway. It could run 50,000psi and not be a danger to the old guns. I think .400 Ruger has a nice ring to it. You know Colt was working on a .400 magnum years ago but shelved it.

I don't have a problem with a rimless auto cartridge in a revolver, but I do like having the option of using a rim, especially when what we're talking about is the rimmed magnum cartridge being longer than a shorter rimless one that would require a moon clip just to headspace anyway.

I think 50k PSI is more than necessary. I mean, .357 Max was around 40k PSI and it cut top straps like butter with the 110gr bullets. It was dumb to run a .357 Max w/ that light a bullet, but I wouldn't want .400 New Powermag to turn into .327 where the PSI is ridiculously high. I mean, what is the goal with any intermediate magnum between .357 and .44? To have near the power of a .44 Mag in a frame that .357 uses. Also, it's not like there's going to be a major reason to buy a rifle in 10mm Ruger New Rimmed Powermag because it's not going to be able to shoot the shorter .40 and 10mm Auto.

I'm not all that up to speed on the Henry .41 Magnum or other .41 Mag rifles, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it has little to no advantage over a .44 Mag rifle out in the field or in terms of ballistics. I mean, whatever amount of flattened trajectory the .41 gets over .44 cannot be so much to make it a decisive advantage.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Years ago I had a Smith .41 Mag that was a 3" N frame but with a K or L frame round butt grip, can't recall which. It was a Lew Horton limited edition and it hurt to shoot it, so I sold or traded it. I don't think I've ever seen another one. I do still have a 696, the down-sized 5-shot .44 Special. I really like it, and again I almost never see another one anywhere. Perhaps there's still an opening for a big-bore in a smaller size.

I came across one at a gun show two years ago. $1800 was the asking price.

"You can handle it if you like."

"No thank you, I'm good."

 

[Charlie98]

I came across one at a gun show two years ago. $1800 was the asking price.

"You can handle it if you like."

"No thank you, I'm good."

One of Those Sellers, eh? Did he want to charge you to handle it?

I always laugh at some gun show tables... you go to sell a .41, it's 'an orphan,' and 'I'll never be able to get rid of it.' But when you are looking at one, all of a sudden it's... 'Rare,' and 'one-of-a-kind!' and 'collectable' with a price to match.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

One of Those Sellers, eh? Did he want to charge you to handle it?

I always laugh at some gun show tables... you go to sell a .41, it's 'an orphan,' and 'I'll never be able to get rid of it.' But when you are looking at one, all of a sudden it's... 'Rare,' and 'one-of-a-kind!' and 'collectable' with a price to match.

LOL! Nah he wasn't too pushy. He was just a guy trying to sell off some of his personal collection. Always cracks me up that a seller will sing a gun's praises and talk about what a fantastic gun it is. I always just think "Then why are you selling it?" Who knows though. Could be a dozen different reasons.

He did start telling me about what a fantastic cartridge 41 magnum is. I used some subtlety to shut him up by asking him if he had any loading dies to go with it, and if he had a favorite load. He got the message.