Landlord won't let me reload

[Ian Sean]

Landlord here..........my house ...my rules...

My rental agreement has a clause that pretty much can be construed to mean ANYTHING I want it to...haven't had to use it, I have had good tenants and I try to be a good landlord.

That being said, I wouldn't have any issues with a tenant reloading.

Basically your up the creek now, you told her you wouldn't, so to stay on the straight and narrow, pack up your gear and wait till you move. She has it in her head now that it is dangerous..........thank your lucky stars that it happened now and not when you first moved in.

At least in my state (and I suspect at least a few others) landlords have the legal right to enter unannounced into any property that they own, whether it's currently being rented or not, for a number of reasons - including suspected property damage, tenants who have been reported using the premises for illegal activity, and so forth.

In my agreements...I give 24 hours notice for a routine inspection, with the exception of emergencies such as electric, water, furnace, fuel etc...

 

[Cosmoline]

At least in my state (and I suspect at least a few others) landlords have the legal right to enter unannounced into any property that they own, whether it's currently being rented or not, for a number of reasons - including suspected property damage, tenants who have been reported using the premises for illegal activity, and so forth.

You should check your code and give us the citation. Most states follow the URLTA or a varation, which limits access to "emergencies" or if adequate notice is given. Besides, a landlord barging in at 3 AM is going to have no heart or lungs.

 

[Cosmoline]

Obviously, to me anyweay, the primers present offer that, in addition to other plausible souces such as gas flames, electric igniters, open flames ...

I saw no reason to explain that which seemed self evident. Why did you deem this 'ignorant fear' ?

I'm sorry to jump on you but that sort of "hazardous" rhetoric is very popular among the antis. If something is "hazardous," that is an opportunity for government to regulate the bejesus out of it. It's easy to see how they can craft a back door attack on gun rights. If powder and primers are "hazardous," then surely ammo is hazardous so you should have to have a federal license to store more than 100 rounds, etc. etc. We have to be careful about the terms we use here, as we are being watched.

You cite primers in your latest post, but primers do not just go off. They require a precise impact. You can have powder and primers stored in their factory containers in an enclosed space without creating a dangerous situation. Moreover as you know, smokeless powder in factory containers does not "explode" even if someone is nutty enough to open the container and drop a lit rag inside. It's less of a fire hazard than a big tub of vegetable oil near the stove. And MUCH less than a turkey fryer.

Handloading is not a "hazard." It's considerably LESS dangerous than typical automotive work. Oily rags and gasoline are a good deal more dangerous and actually can spontaneously combust in the right circumstances. Woodworking can create extremely dangerous clouds of fines which will go off like a bomb, believe it or not. Unless you are a complete loon and do it over a lit stove or something, handloading is a SAFE activity, not a hazard. I am not creating a hazard by doing it, anymore than I'm creating a hazard by having firearms on the premises.

 

[dalepres]

It is her property. It may be that if you have a written lease, and it doesn't prohibit reloading or storage of flammable materials or anything similar, you're probably alright. But if your lease expires or if you are on a month-to-month tenancy, your landlord could condition your continued occupancy on your not reloading, among other possible remedies she might have.

She may be behaving irrationally, but it is her property.

And it's his home. What if she says he can't own a handgun there? It's her property.

If what he is doing is legal and safe - according to code and regulations, not her or an anonymous cop's opinion - then he can do what he wants in his home.

 

[dalepres]

By the way; paint is hazardous as well. What in the world was she doing storing it in the OP's home?

 

[KINGMAX]

It may be Liability

Who's liability insurance is going to write the check if something happens.

 

[SR_]

Landlord here..........my house ...my rules...

My rental agreement has a clause that pretty much can be construed to mean ANYTHING I want it to...haven't had to use it, I have had good tenants and I try to be a good landlord.

Having gone to court supporting my father (a landlord) I can pretty much say, with great certainty, that the clause you're talking about will be read by the judge anyway he/she wants to read it - not necessarily the way you want to read it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Who's liability insurance is going to write the check if something happens.

You're kidding, right? After all the examples given in this thread for things in the home that are actually hazardous you actually asked that question?

Please take a note,
-Smokeless Powder DOES NOT explode.
-Primers won't go bang unless that are struck in the proper place with sufficient force.
-Since there is nothing illegal about reloading and it's no more hazardous than most things in the home there will be no problems with the Insurance companies on the outside chance something did go wrong.

 

[Hook686]

Reloading Safety



Part of the responsibility of being a reloader includes the safe handling, storage and use of gun powder. It is vital that you practice all the recommended precautions before, during and after the use of our products. Below are links to some of the methods we advise you follow when handling gun powder.



General Safety Guidelines
Important Safety and Health Precautions


To perform in a gun, powders must ignite easily and burn rapidly. These characteristics require use of common sense to avoid accidents.

YOU MUST OBSERVE THESE PRECAUTIONS:

DO NOT smoke when reloading.
DO NOT use spark-producing tools.
DO NOT mix powders of different kinds.
DO NOT leave powder where children can get it.
DO NOT try to load when distracted.
Avoid an open fire or working near spark-producing machinery.
Pour out only the amount of powder needed for immediate work.
Check the powder measure each time it is used. Make sure the settings have not been accidentally changed. Check-weigh "thrown charges" frequently.
Clean up any spilled powders. Use a brush and dustpan; do not use a vacuum cleaner. Dispose of spilled powder as described in the SAAMI pages of this Guide.
Store powder only in its original container, which was carefully designed for this usage. DO NOT REPACKAGE. Do not purchase or accept any Alliant powder not in its original, FACTORY-SEALED container.
Be sure the powder container is completely empty before discarding. Do not use the container to store other powders or materials, or for any other purpose.
Always keep in mind that smokeless powder is an explosive material and highly flammable. It should always be stored and handled in such a way as to avoid impact, friction, heat, sparks, or flame.
Wear safety glasses when reloading.
This material contains nitroglycerin. Inhalation, skin contact, or ingestion may cause severe headache, nausea, and lowering of bloodpressure.

Alliant warns me that the powders I reload with is a hazard. I do not think I am 'fearmongering' by simply pointing out what the manufacturer warns about. Wanting to believe it is not a hazard does not make it so. Be careful with it ... and that includes the thought to not store very large quantities in your home and store primers separate from the powder among others.

One can argue that it is no more more hazardous than x,y,z, or not explosive like x,y,z, but the manufacturer lists it as an explosive material containing nitroglycerin. Argue the degree to your hearts content ... sort of what lawyers do in court ... but it is an explosive material and thus hazardous.


http://www.alliantpowder.com/safety/reloading_safety.htm

From CCI:

Primer Storage and Safety

Modern primers, with proper storage, have incredibly long shelf life (in spite of rumors to the contrary that ran amuck in 1993-4). For storage and safety, primers must be left in their original packaging. Find an area with low humidity and reasonably constant temperature. High humidity combined with big temperature swings can degrade primer performance. Any dehumidifying equipment must be flameless to avoid accidents. Check for local regulations regarding the quantity of primers that can be stored in a residence and adhere to those regulations.
Modern primer packaging is designed to protect primers from mass detonation in the event they are in a fire or the package is dropped. In a fire, current packaging design results in a series of small "pops" as individual primers cook off.
Never store primers near exposed flame or sources of static electricity. Never smoke while handloading.
Never store primers in a tightly closed metal container like a ammo can. To do so is to risk a devastating explosion complete with deadly metal fragments from the can. Such confinement can make the discharge of one or two primers instantaneously progress to a high-order event, involving all primers in the can.
Never store primers in bulk, that is, removed from their factory packaging and placed in another container. When loading, dump out only ten to twenty primers at a time. When the session is over, return all primers to their original containers before putting them away.
If you use primers tubes for automated feeding, keep tubes clean and oil-free. Clean dirty tubes under water and dry thoroughly before returning them to service. Do not store primers in tubes; return them to the original packaging at the end of the loading session. Take care to avoid dropping loaded tubes. Never alter a tube, or use a tube not designed for your loader.
Primers are best stored in a vented wooden box or cabinet with a loosely attached door or lid. This allows the pressure to vent in the case of fire or a few primers detonating in the container. Wood acts as insulation to slow the transmission of heat to the primers.
Mark primer packages with the date of purchase and use them in the order received. This rotates your stock so no box is forgotten.
All reloading components, including primers, must be stored away from access by children or persons with impaired judgment.
Always wash your hands thoroughly after handing ammunition or ammunition components.
Above all, apply a healthy dose of common sense to primer handling, as well as all your handloading activities.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/safety/primer_safety.aspx

Dropping a package of primers seems to pose a risk per the manufacturer.

Stay safe.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

It is her property and she can do as she wishes within the framework of the lease contract.

Landlord here..........my house ...my rules...

My rental agreement has a clause that pretty much can be construed to mean ANYTHING I want it to...haven't had to use it, I have had good tenants and I try to be a good landlord.

So, I guess I'll rewrite the contract on our rent house to state "No blacks, no whites, no hispanics--only mixed breed tenants and guests allowed."

And then I might toss in something like "No macaroni and cheese may be cooked in the property" since tenants invariably always get a little in the dishwasher and it tends to stain the dishwasher. . .

"Only 40 watt lightbulbs may be used in order to prevent overheating of light fixtures and thus helping prevent a housefire."

"Curtains must be closed at all times so as not to encourage potential burglars from snooping, and thus possibly causing damage to the property by breaking and entering."

Hey, my property, my rules.

Right?



Some folks need to become familiar with the Fair Housing Act (and basically the only "landlord" that can discriminate against you or unduly control what you can/can't do is the author of the Fair Housing Act--the U.S. Government itself).

Jeff

 

[Matt-J2]

I'd like to point out that a lot of the more hazardous items mentioned here aren't allowed in many apt buildings. Turkey fryers, gas/charcoal grills, gasoline/propane/kerosene, lit cigarettes, lit candles, etc.

 

[Ian Sean]

TexasSkyhawk, besides you,who said anything about discrimination against a tenant? Or violating the Fair Housing Act?

I have in my rental agreements certain stipulations on prohibited activities in MY property.....and I must give the tenant a 24 hour notification for routine property inspection with the exception of emergencies for MY property.

One of the prohibited activities for instance is "not conduct a business enterprise or commercial activities on the premises".

My general clause for "other activities or tenant restrictions not specifically defined" is basicallly a CYA statement if I get a real problem tenant that needs to be evicted.

What is wrong with that?

Lighten up Francis.

 

[jackdanson]

Because this involves a friendship and you are close to the end of your lease, I think you did the correct thing. But, if you want to leave her a note, here's a suggestion:

+1 that would be the classy way to go.

 

[Cosmoline]

Alliant warns me that the powders I reload with is a hazard.

It warns you not to eat it or cook with it, and to to pay attention when you use it. That does not make handloading a hazardous activity. It is NOT hazardous unless you're an idiot and smoke while you're doing it. Or leave it where kids could play with it. The same could be said about many household products, but unless misused none of these are hazardous. It's not hazardous to clean my floor with clorox based chemicals, it's only hazardous if I'm letting kids eat them or bathe with them. You see the difference? Nearly everything in the modern world is potentially dangerous and has umpteen safety warnings, but that doesn't mean the proper use of these things constitutes a hazard. Everything has a warning on it.

Simply put, handloading would only be a hazard if you were violating very basic and common-sense safety rules while doing it. If you store your powder in factory containers and pay attention to your loads it is not hazardous. When I handload I am not posing a hazard to other people in the building. To suggest otherwise is offensive fear mongering.

 

[Geno]

What the heck were reloading, depth-charges?! I can't see much else being "dangerous". Sounds more like fear of the unknown. In nearly 24 years of reloading, I have had zero mishaps, and only one primer ever went "pop". That sounds pretty safe to me.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

My general clause for "other activities or tenant restrictions not specifically defined" is basicallly a CYA statement if I get a real problem tenant that needs to be evicted.

What is wrong with that?

Because in almost inumberable instances, your general clause is not only non-enforceable, but could also subject you to civil rights violations--something our sue-happy Feds are more than happy to pursue against heavy-handed landlords.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings over this. I rent out a house and I've had some real losers as tenants. I've also had some ideal tenants. I feel that as the property owner, I should be able to call most, if not all of the shots when it comes to how I want my property treated and utilized.

However, the Law--and piles upon piles of precedent and case studies--says otherwise.

Jeff

 

[dalepres]

I think you're right, hook686. Reloading is hazardous and it should be banned. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

Dropping a package of primers seems to pose a risk per the manufacturer.

So does cleaning the toilet, per the manufacturer of Scrubbing Bubbles (Dow Chemicals).

As well as cleaning the overn, per the manufacturer of Easy-Off.

As well as spraying for cockroaches (which for some reason landlords never seem to want to do), per the manufacturer of Raid.

As well as drying your hair with a hair dryer anywhere there is water or a source of water nearby.

Somehow, we've all managed to navigate the hazards and pitfalls of such behavior up to this point.

Must be because of all the attorney-inspired warnings from the manufacturers.

Jeff

 

[Frank Ettin]

As far as reloading being hazardous, a lot depends. For instance how careful you are in general? There also the question of how much propellant and primers you may have on hand. A couple of pounds of powder and a couple of thousand primers is one thing. And then there are the competition trap shooters I know who may keep 10 to 20 pounds of powder and 10,000 primers around.

And yes, reloading may be a very safe activity when you follow the rules and are careful. But how does your landlord know how careful you are? Is the landlord supposed to assess how safe you are and monitor your adherence to proper safety procedure?

Propellant and primers are very flammable. A large quantity on hand could turn a small fire started in other ways into a major conflagration.

The landlord has invested his (or her) money to buy and maintain the property he rents to you. Yes you rent it as your home, but he's the one who put up the money and incurred the debt to buy it. It's his skin in the game -- not yours. You just pay the rent each month and, perhaps, minor maintenance, if that. You expect the landlord to keep paying his mortgage and taxes and to be responsible for major maintenance. As a tenant, you have no capital investment on the line.

True, many types of restrictive condition are now illegal in leases. But I sympathize with a landlord that wishes to exercise what controls are permitted by law and the applicable lease to protect his property and investment. Of course, if he hasn't properly protected himself in the lease, you're probably free until the landlord corrects that oversight.

If you want the greatest freedom, save your pennies and buy your own house. If you can't afford a house where you now live, move to somewhere you can afford to buy. Life is largely a matter of trade offs. If you really want to live in a particular place and can't afford to buy a house there, the trade off is that you must rent and accept certain restraints imposed by the person who actual owns the property you rent.

 

[BEARMAN]

You did the right thing ,to make sure you get your deposit back and also not mess up a freindship with her son. . But how did she store and secure the paint and thinners that she brought over for the next tenent. Depending on how and where it is stored, you may be in danger (just a possibility). Paint , thinners and rags are maybe more dangerous than smokeless powder and primers.

 

[Hook686]

Yesterday, 09:31 PM #67
dalepres wrote:

I think you're right, hook686. Reloading is hazardous and it should be banned. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm really not sure how much you think, or how well you think dalepres, for at no point did I promote the banning of reloading. In fact I noted that I reload. However I do not think I am brain dead ... Alliant points out that the powder I reload with contains nitroglycerin. I do not consider this a minor point and exercise appropriate caution, for I most certainly do consider nitroglycerin (as in dynamite) a hazard, I'm surprised you do not.

A bunch of folks seem to think that having other hazardous products in their a rental unit somehow justifies having gunpowder and primers in that rental unit. Each person is certainly free to think in any manner they choose ... unless of course one happens to be the landlord ... then all sorts of legal codes and standards are sputtered. I'm sure glad none of you were ever my landlord.

 

[Ian Sean]

I'm sure glad none of you were ever my landlord

I stated earlier...I am a landlord....and as a reloader myself I would have no problem with reloading activity in my property.

Unfortunately the thread kind of went of topic a bit discussing landlords and tenants rights and what not.

I rent out a house and I've had some real losers as tenants. I've also had some ideal tenants.

.

I have been blessed myself....I have real good tenants and I do my damndest to be a good landlord.

 

[syh]

In regards to the post about nitroglycerin, the warning seems to be addressing the medicinal qualities of it, not the "go boom" qualities.

"Inhalation, skin contact, or ingestion may cause severe headache, nausea, and lowering of bloodpressure."

Certainly you've heard of nitro used as a cardiac medication, which lowers blood pressure, sometimes causing headaches and nausea.

The other danger from containing nitro are listed in the other warnings above.