Landlord won't let me reload
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hill billy
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Do have a window that opens onto a public walkway or is easily seen into? I would put my reloading bench in the window and proceed to load a bunch of large rifle cartridges while wearing only a banana hammock. But that's just me.
If it's not in your lease, either educate her or ignore her, whatever you do, don't roll over for her.
If it's not in your lease, either educate her or ignore her, whatever you do, don't roll over for her.
Has she ever told you she'd take care of something and then didn't?
Is reloading specifically prohibited by your lease?
The equipment and components are there. She isn't. You only have a month left. Load away to your heart's content. She can't just keep your deposit becase she feels like it.
As long as you satisfy the terms of the lease and have not damaged the apartment, she has no legal means to keep your deposit.
I've been through this kind of fight before, from both sides. A magistrate will make a judgement based on local codes and the lease document. period. Not on what the landlord asked you to do or not to do after the lease was signed.
Is reloading specifically prohibited by your lease?
The equipment and components are there. She isn't. You only have a month left. Load away to your heart's content. She can't just keep your deposit becase she feels like it.
As long as you satisfy the terms of the lease and have not damaged the apartment, she has no legal means to keep your deposit.
I've been through this kind of fight before, from both sides. A magistrate will make a judgement based on local codes and the lease document. period. Not on what the landlord asked you to do or not to do after the lease was signed.
Actually reloading is a hazard ...
... which is why there is a hazmat fee associated with gun powder and primers. I think the cop was correct, reloading in a confined space is unsafe, but then so is a propane heater, stove, natural gas heater, range/oven, electric space heater, iron, electric lighting, ...
I can understand the landlord. I suspect she does not want the place to burn down and then find insurance will not cover it, and/or she has law suits for having such an operation taking place on her property.
Perhaps she thinks of reloading as working with an explosive. Gun powder is not an explosive. I think gunpowder certainly adds to a burning situation though, and in the 'right' combination of closed space, air, and powder what appears as an explosion takes place. I do not even think a 'Ka-boom' is really an explosion.
as much a pain as it is to move, I support the property owner's right to not go alone with reloading on the property. Too bad the cop opened his/her mouth. But I suspect the landlord was looking for a supporting answer such as that. I see no reason to 'counterstrike' as seems to me to be suggested by some posts. The landlord does not like gunpowder/primers stored on the property, so be it. Why battle her ? Life is too short to adopt an attitude of, "I'm right, you're wrong; I'm smart, you're stupid; I'm strong, you're weak ..." Enjoy the journey, even if that means you gotta move.
Good luck in your new place.
... which is why there is a hazmat fee associated with gun powder and primers. I think the cop was correct, reloading in a confined space is unsafe, but then so is a propane heater, stove, natural gas heater, range/oven, electric space heater, iron, electric lighting, ...
I can understand the landlord. I suspect she does not want the place to burn down and then find insurance will not cover it, and/or she has law suits for having such an operation taking place on her property.
Perhaps she thinks of reloading as working with an explosive. Gun powder is not an explosive. I think gunpowder certainly adds to a burning situation though, and in the 'right' combination of closed space, air, and powder what appears as an explosion takes place. I do not even think a 'Ka-boom' is really an explosion.
as much a pain as it is to move, I support the property owner's right to not go alone with reloading on the property. Too bad the cop opened his/her mouth. But I suspect the landlord was looking for a supporting answer such as that. I see no reason to 'counterstrike' as seems to me to be suggested by some posts. The landlord does not like gunpowder/primers stored on the property, so be it. Why battle her ? Life is too short to adopt an attitude of, "I'm right, you're wrong; I'm smart, you're stupid; I'm strong, you're weak ..." Enjoy the journey, even if that means you gotta move.
Good luck in your new place.
hill billy
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- 61
So you support the landlord making up the rules as she goes along? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If it's not spelled out, she's going to have a hard time enforcing it, whether the op is moving out next month or next year. Parenthetically, most landlords/property managers are twits and treat the general public poorly. I have sat in court three times to retrieve security deposits(not for myself) that were ultimately rewarded along with heavy penalties (compared to the original amount) because most of these people treat tenants poorly and think they are dumb. Most of the time they get away with it. HAving said that, I'm sure they have their share of whacked out tenants to deal with as well.hook686 said:
Because this involves a friendship and you are close to the end of your lease, I think you did the correct thing. But, if you want to leave her a note, here's a suggestion:
Dear Mrs. X
Out of respect for you I did honor your request and my promise to not reload ammunition after xyz date.
However, I did not want to leave with you thinking that I did anything to endanger other tenants or your property. Consider:
> There are published safety guidelines for storing powder and primers in a residence - I did not exceed these guidelines,
> Reloading in a residence does not increase home owner's insurance rates (insurance companies do not see it as a problem),
> City codes/ordinances do not restrict reloading in a residence (because it not a problem),
> Fire codes do not prohibit reloading in a residence (because it is not a problem). One is not even required to advise the fire department that they have powder or primers.
The person you spoke with provided information that was obviously troubling to you. Please understand that the information that person provided is simply not accurate.
I value the friendship with [son's name] and would not want you thinking I did something inappropriate while a tenant of your property.
Dear Mrs. X
Out of respect for you I did honor your request and my promise to not reload ammunition after xyz date.
However, I did not want to leave with you thinking that I did anything to endanger other tenants or your property. Consider:
> There are published safety guidelines for storing powder and primers in a residence - I did not exceed these guidelines,
> Reloading in a residence does not increase home owner's insurance rates (insurance companies do not see it as a problem),
> City codes/ordinances do not restrict reloading in a residence (because it not a problem),
> Fire codes do not prohibit reloading in a residence (because it is not a problem). One is not even required to advise the fire department that they have powder or primers.
The person you spoke with provided information that was obviously troubling to you. Please understand that the information that person provided is simply not accurate.
I value the friendship with [son's name] and would not want you thinking I did something inappropriate while a tenant of your property.
Cosmoline
Member
Unless it's in the lease or against local law to reload the landlord has no right to add new terms and restrictions.
When you rent a place, it's YOUR PLACE. You have full possessory rights including the right to quiet enjoyment. A lot of landlords don't seem to comprehend this. They take your money but still believe you're staying at "their" property. Well it's not their property while you're a paying tenant. They merely hold legal title, and have sold possessory rights. So they can go soak head. It's none of the landlord's business unless you're breaking the law. And I know of no law against small scale reloading on residential premises.
When you rent a place, it's YOUR PLACE. You have full possessory rights including the right to quiet enjoyment. A lot of landlords don't seem to comprehend this. They take your money but still believe you're staying at "their" property. Well it's not their property while you're a paying tenant. They merely hold legal title, and have sold possessory rights. So they can go soak head. It's none of the landlord's business unless you're breaking the law. And I know of no law against small scale reloading on residential premises.
Cosmoline
Member
Where the heck did you get that idea? If you're actually arguing that powder will spontaneously combust, I suggest you do some more research on the matter. This is ignorant fear mongering.
Husker1911
Member
How many dozen times more dangerous is a turkey-fryer, or either propane or charcoal grill? Does she forbid their use, too?
That being said, I too, many years ago, had a landlord that freaked when he saw my reloading bench. I moved shortly after.
That being said, I too, many years ago, had a landlord that freaked when he saw my reloading bench. I moved shortly after.
gloriavoxdei
Member
I am a deputy sheriff and I can honestly say that most of the guys in my SO are completely CLUELESS on firearm laws. We are a shall issue state and I've heard guys say that permits are at the discression of the Sheriff!!! Needless to say, don't just go by what some lady says her cop friend said (she probably never talked to one of us anyway, I hear that one alot) and just look up the laws and ordinances. If it becomes a real issue than talk to your fire martial and the ATF office for your district, they will know more that a local about those particular laws. Local LE doesn't enfore those laws much anyway so there's no reason for the cop to have that knowledge. Be courties and educate, it's a great oppertunity to make all us reloaders and gun owners look good if you do it right 
Matt-J2
Member
Seems to me the lady made a request, and you agreed to it. Not much to do about that, except view this as a way to ensure all the equipment gets packed nice and secure without having to rush at the last minute.
Griz44
Member
I live in a major metropolitan area. I recently applied for an FFL to sell out of my home. With all FFL applications, an ATF agent comes to the premise, inspects the facility and does training for you in the paperwork and laws. I spent over 2 hours with the agent at my home, and she (yes she) inspected my safe, my locker, and my home for compliance, including my reloading room. The ATF has no issues with a residential reloading operation, even when a casting operation is also present. The only comment made was IF primer counts were larger than 10K, they need to be separated by 1" of wood or put in different locations. I also had to get a city occupancy permit for my business, which the city approved with all these same facts being presented. It is not a legal issue, simply a misinformed landlord. I would suggest that if you want to keep your friend, and avoid a possible black mark on your rental rating, that you honor your agreement. You are fully in the right to do as your wish, but is it worth the price you may pay for a month? Sometimes, a little give gets a lot of gain later.
So before the hawks tear into it, it is just my .02 worth, and it is just a opinion...
So before the hawks tear into it, it is just my .02 worth, and it is just a opinion...
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
One thing I do suggest you do is once your stuff is moved out, make sure and take the time and effort to take pictures of how the place was cleaned up and ready for reestablishment. Also, know the laws of your state on what you are required to do to move out and what isn't required. Don't believe the landlord or office clerks. Know your rights by checking with a lawyer.
Once you've moved, demand your deposit back and insist on it. If they don't return it, take them to court and show the judge the photographs you took when you moved. Judges know landlords are often bad about not returning deposits and generally will side with the tenant in such matters.
FYI,
Dave
Once you've moved, demand your deposit back and insist on it. If they don't return it, take them to court and show the judge the photographs you took when you moved. Judges know landlords are often bad about not returning deposits and generally will side with the tenant in such matters.
FYI,
Dave
earplug
Member
Fight it, you have nothing to lose, but the next person that moves in will be effected by her uneducated bias.
You reloading is safer then hair spray, spray paint, smoking, frying food and many forms of recreation.
You reloading is safer then hair spray, spray paint, smoking, frying food and many forms of recreation.
Deavis
Member
Funny how many people advise against the landlord's request on a forum where private property is considered hallowed ground. Turn the situation around and consider it for a second. It is her property and she can do as she wishes within the framework of the lease contract. Further, most leases have all sorts of clauses in them that she might be able to use against you. You are almost always at a disadvantage as the leasee when under sn industry standard contract, do not forget that. I recommend you take a step back and consider your options carefully, read your lease very thoroughly, and then decide if going against her is in your best interests. document everything.
RugerSAFan
Member
I never had an issue, but I also made sure that the RCBS 2000 was covered and components were put away before announced entry by property management personnel (i.e. scheduled air filter changes). I did the same for the cleaning lady.
I just moved into a "new" older home. I won't set-up my reloading area until block windows are installed in the basement windows. I don't want nosy neighbors looking in. While I don't need folks permission to reload, no reason to flaunt it either. Especially those that don't understand.
I already took my son to task for mentioning to neighbor that the cellar was going to be a gun room....
I just moved into a "new" older home. I won't set-up my reloading area until block windows are installed in the basement windows. I don't want nosy neighbors looking in. While I don't need folks permission to reload, no reason to flaunt it either. Especially those that don't understand.
I already took my son to task for mentioning to neighbor that the cellar was going to be a gun room....
highlander 5
Member
When i bought my 2 family the tenants were the ones concerned about my reloading "habit". I explained that the "gunpowder" I use is safer than common gasoline. Most people have watched to many western where the bad guy uses "gun powder" to blow up the train trestle,the family ranch ect.
Bush Pilot
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- Oct 17, 2007
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- 2,393
You could argue with the landlord until you're blue in the face and never win. Why not load up enough ammo to get you by until you've moved and have your press set up at the new location and move on with your life? This doesn't sound like a battle worth waging for 3 weeks of reloading, besides, you'll be busy packing and too busy to reload anyway.
Cosmoline
Member
The tenant also has property rights. She cannot interfere with quiet enjoyment beyond the confines of the lease or law. Some of them don't seem to understand that they cannot take money from a tenant then treat them as some form of serf. It doesn't work like that.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I'm guessing a lot of these answers were give without reading all the posts. (or even the OP's posts)
1. He's moving.
2. He's good friends with the son of the landlord and doesn't want to trash that friendship.
3. He wants to get his security deposit back without a hassle.
(Did I mention he's friends with the son?)
4. He said the landlord lives far away so even if he did reload she would never know.
(did I mention he was moving anyway?)
I really don't see a problem here other than some woman is misinformed about reloading and ammo. (imagine that!) If he were staying the situation would be totally different but why rock the boat with a friend's family if you are already moving? The post above by "SR_" is a good one. In it he suggests informing her of the facts without rocking the boat by telling he he will reload anyway. Sounds all good to me...
1. He's moving.
2. He's good friends with the son of the landlord and doesn't want to trash that friendship.
3. He wants to get his security deposit back without a hassle.
(Did I mention he's friends with the son?)
4. He said the landlord lives far away so even if he did reload she would never know.
(did I mention he was moving anyway?)
I really don't see a problem here other than some woman is misinformed about reloading and ammo. (imagine that!) If he were staying the situation would be totally different but why rock the boat with a friend's family if you are already moving? The post above by "SR_" is a good one. In it he suggests informing her of the facts without rocking the boat by telling he he will reload anyway. Sounds all good to me...
KEY WORDS hill billy, 'If it's not spelled out, ' You know for a fact it is not?
I suspect even a general clause prohibiting anything destructive, illegal, and/or hazardous would cover reloading. However I do not have the wisdom of the alleged contract to look at.
How the hell you went from "
to
Would you care to explain this ?
I suspect even a general clause prohibiting anything destructive, illegal, and/or hazardous would cover reloading. However I do not have the wisdom of the alleged contract to look at.
How the hell you went from "
to
Would you care to explain this ?
Yesterday, 11:10 AM #33
Cosmoline
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-28-02
Location: Raggedy Edge of the Verse
Posts: 14,462
Boy do you enjoy leaping off the edge ?
With 14,000+ posts I assume you are informed enough to reasize that the ignition takes a souce of ignition. Obviously, to me anyweay, the primers present offer that, in addition to other plausible souces such as gas flames, electric igniters, open flames ...
I saw no reason to explain that which seemed self evident. Why did you deem this 'ignorant fear' ?
Cosmoline
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-28-02
Location: Raggedy Edge of the Verse
Posts: 14,462
Boy do you enjoy leaping off the edge ?
With 14,000+ posts I assume you are informed enough to reasize that the ignition takes a souce of ignition. Obviously, to me anyweay, the primers present offer that, in addition to other plausible souces such as gas flames, electric igniters, open flames ...
I saw no reason to explain that which seemed self evident. Why did you deem this 'ignorant fear' ?
kingpin008
Member
Wrong. At least in my state (and I suspect at least a few others) landlords have the legal right to enter unannounced into any property that they own, whether it's currently being rented or not, for a number of reasons - including suspected property damage, tenants who have been reported using the premises for illegal activity, and so forth.
------------------------
Hook - First, primers don't spontaneously combust. It just doesn't happen. They're detonated by shock force, not heat. So that's right out. As far as your other examples (gas flames, electric igniters, open flames) well, those risks are present in ANY home or apartment, regardless of whether or not the tenant owns or uses reloading gear, so I fail to see the connection. And further - the ownership and use of reloading gear or components would in no way make any of those possible ignition sources any more risky - if they're going to start a fire, they're going to start a fire. Yes, smokeless powder does burn, and a lot of it will burn, well, a lot. But so will cleaning products under the sink, hairspray and perfumes in the bathroom and bedroom, and pretty much anything else you'd find in an average household. So I think what Cosmoline meant by "fearmongering", was that you seem to be misinformed about the dangers of certain reloading components, and by presenting them as fact, you were providing essentially false information that could scare people away from reloading.
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