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Lyman Customer Service, or lack of!

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ArchAngelCD, Dec 2, 2012.

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  1. Bush Pilot

    Bush Pilot Member

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    After rereading this thread I'm amazed anyone buys Lyman products.
     
  2. PDC

    PDC Member

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    I once bought a Lyman 4- die set that was advertised as including a powder-through M-die.

    When I got it, it had a non-powder through M-die and a little slip of paper saying that they had switched the non-powder-through for the powder-through die. With no decrease in price. The whole point of buying the Lyman set was the powder-through M-die.

    I called Lyman and they basically said tough luck; contact your seller to arrange for a refund if you're not happy.

    MidwayUSA was awesome. They investigated, said, 'you're right,' they changed that without telling us; we're sorry for the inconvenience. They then sent me a brand new powder-through M-die _on their own dime._

    That's customer service.

    On the other hand, Lyman did replace a shellholder that cracked. It took 3 weeks, but they replaced it at no charge.

    On the other hand, RCBS has bent over backwards to help me out, even when I admitted that the problem was my fault and that I was willing to pay to fix it. They and MidwayUSA will continue to get my business.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  3. IROCZ

    IROCZ Member

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    Dang and right before the tax return season! Poor form!
     
  4. IROCZ

    IROCZ Member

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    Dang I'm bummed! I had my new bullet casting set up picked out and was just waiting to order! I won't give my money to ignorant people! I had to earn it, they should too! And Lyman... an American ICON! I have bought tons of stuff from them! I have Lyman stuff that was my GranDaddy's!

    Sent to Lyman CS today...


    You may want to check out The High Road gun forum. (THR.org) A customer got jammed by a CS rep over a M55 powder measure. His story was dissapointing to say the least. At this time of the year most of your customers are dreaming about the new gear they are gonna buy with thier returned money. I, myself am just getting seriously into bullet casting as a new hobby and I need every thing. I did not even have to think about where I was going to by my casting equipment. Lyman IS bullet casting right? Well after reading this forum it brought back memories of that Lyman turret with the snapped off handle. I tried to get a replacement but was told "Tough luck" by your CS rep. At this time I will check out Lee and RCBS and a few others. This is a damn shame as Lyman is one of the oldest and most respected names in reloading and bullet casting.
     
  5. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey folks,

    You can add me to those who would bash Lyman for its terrible product warranty and customer service policy. Lyman simply makes no attempt to compete with other brands such as RCBS, Hornady, and Dillon - at least not in my experience.

    That does not mean I think their products are junk; Lyman makes very good products, and I have been using them for over 60 years. This inculdes die sets, powder measures, lubrisizers, bullet molds, electric furnace, presses, gunsights, and many other products. Their stuff is well made, but they sure do not warrant them for life like their competitors.

    I have also been using many pieces of RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, and MEC equipment in all those years. Actually, almost all of my reloading equipment has been pretty much bullet proof in all those years since most of it is built to last for multiple lifetimes.

    Of all the brands and items I mentioned using in 60 years, I have only had four items break, and three of them were Lyman products. The first item was my Lyman 450 Lubrisizer which had the pressure screw bearing break sometime in the 1970s and again in the 1990s. Both times I had to pay for replacement screws and shipping of same. In all fairness, the pressure screw bearing does wear out, but if I had purchased an RCBS machine, it would be covered by warranty today. Of course, RCBS did not make this machine when I bought my Lyman.

    I have also had a bottom pour Luman furnace since the early 1980s, and the thermostat went bad a few years ago. This time they would not simply sell me the part, I had to send the whole furnace back for them to repair, and that added even more to the cost. I would not expect them to warrant an electric product like a mechanical product, but I think they should have sold me the replacement part instead of insisting on my sending the whole unit back for factory repairs. I could have signed a release if it would have made them feel better, but that was not an option.

    The third Lyman item that broke for me happened last year. The neck expander button on a .223 sizer die broke while in use. I was told by their customer service folks that I would have to have a sales receipt to show when I bought the die set to have it replaced under warranty. Who has a receipt for their die sets? They would not simply sell the expander button, and I had to order the whole unit consisting of the button, shaft, and top screw - plus shipping and handling of course. This would not have happened if it was an RCBS die set.

    I also had two Hornady inertia bullet pullers break over 25 years, and they were both replaced under warranty without any proof of purchace as required by Lyman. I do not like inertia bullet pullers and will always use a collet puller when able to do so.

    Sometime in the 1980s I also had the thumb lever on a Lee Auto-Prime tool break, but I just chalked it up to Lee products not being up to the same quality level of other brands. While I am not a Lee product fan, and I also had an RCBS hand prime tool at the time, I really did like the convenience of using the Lee Auto-Prime hand tool, and I simply bought another Lee tool.

    Do I think RCBS makes a better die set or bullet mold than Lyman? No, I do not. I still think both companies make good products. The simple matter is that RCBS offers a much more customer friendly warranty than Lyman. Accordingly, when someone asks me today about buying Lyman products, I tell them to choose RCBS instead. Both are the same quality wise, and they both cost about the same, but RCBS is much better when it comes to warranting their products than Lyman. It is as simple as that to me.

    I still use my Lyman #55 powder measure, many die sets, vibratory case cleaner, balance beam scale, many bullet moulds, lubrisizer, and bottom pour furnace. I still use them because I bought them many years ago. If I were to buy them today, however, I would choose RCBS instead. I have heard a few folks say they made out well with Lyman's customer service, but far more folks have had the poor Lyman customer service experience as I have had.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  6. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I must say, I'm a little surprised at how many of you have had the same poor CS that I had. I'm very surprised and that's just not right for a company that's been around so long and who makes such good products.
     
  7. IROCZ

    IROCZ Member

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    I'm still waiting for a response. This Christmas money is burning a hole in my reloading pocket!
     
  8. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    You don't seriously expect Lyman to come here and read this, do you?
    They didn't care when they did it to me so I doubt they care now...
     
  9. IROCZ

    IROCZ Member

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    I was about to spend about $250 on casting equipment from them. I think I'll goe with Lee. Not as good but cheaper and cheaper to replace. All my molds are Lyman and they weren't inexspensive...
     
  10. PDC

    PDC Member

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    To add to my previous message, Lee and Hornady have also treated me well.

    I bought a Lee die from Cabela's. After getting home, it didn't work. Disassembling the die, I found that a part was missing. I called Lee. They apologized and sent me the replacement part, no fuss, no questions asked.

    I had an issue where I had a problem with the large case feed tube on a Hornady LNL press. I called Hornady, and they sent me a replacement with no questions asked.

    The level of customer service I've had the pleasure of experiencing from RCBS, Lee, Hornady, and MidwayUSA sets a high standard that some companies have trouble matching...
     
  11. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey IROCZ,

    Concerning your post about spending $250 on casting equipment, I would like to offer my opinion about your spending it to buy Lee equipment. It's just my opinion, and many others may disagree with me, but I think it is worth considering.

    I started casting over 50 years ago, and I started back then with Lyman/Ideal double-cavity molds and handles, a Lyman pot, and a Lyman mold pouring ladle. Within a few years, I had purchased several Lyman four-cavity molds and handles. For many years, I melted lead in that pot over a two-burner Coleman stove. As primitive as that may sound, I made a lot of bullets over the years, and I still have those same Lyman/Ideal molds, and they still work just the same as when they were new. The Lyman/Ideal molds are made of steel, and they last forever if properly maintained.

    At that time, RCBS was not making any bullet casting equipment yet. When RCBS started their bullet casting equipment it was first rate quality like the Lyman/Ideal equipment and about the same price. While most of my molds are Lyman/Ideal, I have purchased several RCBS molds which are also steel and similar to my Lyman/Ideal molds. I also found I was able to use my Lyman mold handles for the RCBS molds with a minimum of alteration.

    Then about ten years ago I thought I would give the Lee aluminum molds a try since they were so much cheaper than RCBS and Lyman. In short, I simply did not like the Lee aluminum mold, and I sold it off. I also do not like tumble lubing and whatever else Lee advocates. I much prefer to use a lubrisizer to exactly size, lubricate, and seat gas checks at one time.

    RCBS makes the same type of lubrisizer and dies as Lyman, and their molds are the same quality. The lubrisizer dies from both Lyman and RCBS are interchangeable in both brands of lubrisizers. It seems that Lyman is getting out of the mold business. They have dropped many of the molds they have been making for decades. RCBS has picked up some of the slack from Lyman, but mold choice is greatly diminished these days. Because of this, I recommend buying used mold when available; like I said, they are made of steel and will last forever.

    I don't think the same thing can be said of Lee molds and their mold designs. I would not be afraid to buy either Lyman or RCBS molds used, and I would buy new molds of either brand if available. However, if I could buy the mold I wanted from either Lyman or RCBS, I would choose RCBS because of the warranty business. I would also choose RCBS for handles, lubrisizer, furnace and whatever else they make new today.

    Lee molds and equipment certainly are a lot less expensive than Lyman and RCBS, but they simply are not anywhere near the same quality in my opinion. Many may disagree with my ideas about Lee bullet casting equipment, but I suspect there may be some others who may agree with me. I just think you ought to consider sticking with RCBS first and Lyman second (including purchasing used equipment) instead of buying Lee aluminum molds and other casting equipment.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  12. Bush Pilot

    Bush Pilot Member

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    Let us know how little concern they show over your e-mail.
     
  13. hAkron

    hAkron Member

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    I have a Lyman T-Mag 2 turret press. Shortly after buying it, the pot metal priming arm broke. I emailed Lyman CS and sent them a picture of the broken part. They told me to send it to them and they would replace it. For a $10 part and what would amount to a hassle to send it in, and a long wait I decided to buy an RCBS universal priming arm (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/644084/rcbs-single-stage-press-universal-primer-arm-2) which thankfully fit the Lyman press. Now if it breaks again, the world class RCBS customer service will take care of me with no trouble.
     
  14. floydster

    floydster Member

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    Read my posts and pic's on my Chinese made Lyman casting furnace.
    Nough said.

    Smokeyloads
     
  15. GaryL

    GaryL Member

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    FWIW, I have an old RCBS sizing die that I bought used and broke the decapping pin on a Berdan shell that got through the sorting process. Tried to find a replacement, but no luck. Called RCBS, explained the situation, and they sent out the new style decapper and several spare pins free of charge. That was far beyond my expectations. I will be happy to provide a home to anything with the RCBS name on it.

    My Dillon stuff hasn't required any CS, but it is re-assuring to know they also stand behind their products.
     
  16. erikras

    erikras Member

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    I purchased the Lyman T-Mag 2 Master Kit which included their 1000XP (?? on the p/n) digital scale. Right out of the box it wouldn't hold zero. There is ZERO air movement in the corner of my basement. I tried letting it "warm up" and everything. I'd calibrate it then tare it with the powder pan. I'd lift up the pan and replace it and it'd show 0.2gr. Do it again. 0.0gr. Again 0.1gr. Put 5.0gr of powder in the scale. Lift it up... 5.1gr... 4.8gr. You get the idea....

    Called Lyman CS. Had to send the scale back AT MY EXPENSE. The replacement seemed a little better, but not much. This one would stay within +/- 0.1gr MOST of the time. After a some use, it started doing the same as the original one and would hardly even calibrate. Called Lyman CS and they said I'd have to return the replacement again AT MY EXPENSE. After reading some online reviews on this POS, I threw it in the trash. Bought a Hornady Auto Charge and haven't looked back.
     
  17. biogenic

    biogenic Member

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    Yup. My experience with the Lyman was similar to the op. That girl is a real work if art. ( if is the same one )
     
  18. IROCZ

    IROCZ Member

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    I still have not heard from them yet. And thanks for the advice Dave and Floyd.
     
  19. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    Glad you posted this. I have a couple of sets of Lyman dies. Probably won't be adding anymore Lyman stuff to my reloading set up.
     
  20. jolly roger

    jolly roger Member

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    Cracked the flimsy post on a T Mag turret press after only about 5 years and they pretty much told me I was SOL...Bought a USED RCBS Auto 4x4 press years ago and called RCBS for a few parts needed. Hooked me up no questions asked....none. Dillon and Lee good to go in this regard too. Never needed to call Redding.
     
  21. rixy308

    rixy308 Member

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    About 10 years ago I had a Lyman tumbler that had a motor fail. I only used it for about 15 hours but it was a few years old. Of course they wouldn't warranty it and they wanted more for the replacement motor than I could buy a new one from Midway. Needless to say, I have the Midway and the Lyman went to the dump.
     
  22. 9w1911

    9w1911 Member

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    This is why Dillon does what it does.
     
  23. presspuller

    presspuller Member

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    The only Lyman equipment I own is a T-Mag turret press that I got for free because the stop pegs off of it for the original owner. Not a very good design in my book. Since I am a tool and die maker it was no trouble to add a stop to it that will last a life time.
    It came without the primer catcher, the original owner could not find it. I called Lyman about one and they wanted 12 bucks for one. That may be a decent price but I know if it was a RCBS, there would have been no charge for a primer catcher.
    Whatever RCBS pays for free replacements is made up in multiples because of customers backing a company that backs its customers. Its a shame that not all of them are that way.
     
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