Large frame 45 colt single actions
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45 Dragoon
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Or, you can do like I did and convert a Dragoon (or two like I did) and/or a Walker to .45 Colt with a Kirst gated konversion. They're big, beautiful, and very accurate !!!! With the extra weight of these conversions they are quite nice to shoot!!
Just a thought . . . . of course they aren't like a Ruger (of any kind) but they are a fairly accurate representation of a period conversion.
Just a thought . . . . of course they aren't like a Ruger (of any kind) but they are a fairly accurate representation of a period conversion.
45 Dragoon
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Define hot. I shoot 250 gr. 1000 fps out of my conversions as a normal load. That's not a slouch load. I don't hunt anymore but would use any of mine if I decided to.
I don't think you can shoot "Ruger " loads out of the EAA.
I don't think you can shoot "Ruger " loads out of the EAA.
Crunchy Frog
Member
The reloading manuals say "Ruger only" for a reason. I don't think I would take a chance with something else.
Personally, I never understood the need to try to make a .45 Colt perform like a .44 Magnum.
Personally, I never understood the need to try to make a .45 Colt perform like a .44 Magnum.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
FA and BFR, the big Virginian Dragoons, the Abilene/Seville/El Dorado sixguns.....
Saleen322
Member
This is good advice. FWIW, I had emailed Ruger about shooting "hot" factory 45 Colt ammo from their large frame revolvers, specifically Buffalo Bore. Their response: All of our Firearms are designed to handle all US Industry Standard Ammunition made to SAAMI Spec (including +P). We cannot recommend using the 45 Colt +P in our guns as it is not a SAAMI cartridge.
The SAAMI spec for 45 Colt is MAP 14,000 PSI. There is no SAAMI 45 Colt +P specification. Meaning anything above 14K is beyond SAAMI recommendation. The revolver and brass are designed to handle MAP plus a safety margin. The Ruger is a strong revolver but you need to know when you are exceeding its proof test limits. Now the spec for the 454 Casull (and 460 Smith) is MAP 65,000 PSI and they will handle 45 Colt rounds so that may be something to consider if you want to shoot hot loads. YMMV
I wondered because EAA makes a 44 mag and i am under the impression that it is the same frame as the 45 colt.
FWIW i have a Redhawk, Blackhawk, and "old model" Vaquero in 45 colt, i just have a hankering to try a different brand
el indio
Member
What about a Hawes Chief Marshall? Single action,44 mag,recessed cylinder. Made by J.P. Sauer and sons in Germany. It even has 4 clicks when you cock it that spells COLT. Almost forgot, it has a 6 inch barrel.
45 Dragoon
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Understand,
The big opentops are definitely a change!!!
The big opentops are definitely a change!!!
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yes, we've all heard that before. Due to liability reasons, Ruger is always going to say standard factory loads. They have never condoned the use of anything else, including handloads of any kind.
That said, this path has been well-beaten before us. We know the guns are strong enough, we know the brass is strong enough, we have pressure tested data, there's nothing out of the ordinary about it.
This article is a little outdated in reference to the .44Mag but everything else rings true.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
Thanks craig. Almost all manufacturers will advise you not to shoot ANY reloads. It is called CYA, nothing more.
I hear a lot of the "why do you try to turn 45 colt into a 44 mag" type of stuff. Well because i have 3 large frame 45 colt guns already and no 44mags. Why would i want to invest in all the reloading dies and components for 44mag when i already have everything for 45 colt. And it there is no issues with loading a 45colt to 44 mag performance in my guns
Probably less than a third of what i reload and shoot in 45 colt is "Ruger Only", but i like the ability to do it when i get the itch.
I don't want or need a 44 mag. I can do the same with a 45 colt (along with light cowboy loads)
While it is true that some manufacturers offer .45 Colt versions built on their usual .44 Magnum platforms, they don't always use the same steel alloy and heat treating process that go into a .44 Magnum cylinder.
If a revolver is made in Europe it is usually proof fired according to the chambering, so while a .45 Colt will generally survive the proof test continued use of heavier then standard loads may in time produce a progressive failure (as opposed to a catastrophic one). The question here is, "how do you define 'heavier'?"
Ruger for one, is fed up with getting revolvers back with expanded chambers because the owner went a bit too far with the "Ruger only" business, and now is having extraction problems and wants the gun fixed under warrantee. To put it bluntly, it won't happen because in questionable circumstances they check for this condition.
When it comes to other makers - especially those in Europe - the question is not what frame size or platform, but what materials is it made from.
If a revolver is made in Europe it is usually proof fired according to the chambering, so while a .45 Colt will generally survive the proof test continued use of heavier then standard loads may in time produce a progressive failure (as opposed to a catastrophic one). The question here is, "how do you define 'heavier'?"
Ruger for one, is fed up with getting revolvers back with expanded chambers because the owner went a bit too far with the "Ruger only" business, and now is having extraction problems and wants the gun fixed under warrantee. To put it bluntly, it won't happen because in questionable circumstances they check for this condition.
When it comes to other makers - especially those in Europe - the question is not what frame size or platform, but what materials is it made from.
Saleen322
Member
While maybe firearms can be loaded with rounds above SAAMI limits, that doesn't mean it is a good idea. Years ago in the 60s a hunting buddy of my Dad's thought his .308 Win was safe to shoot 150 grainers around 3000 FPS. He always would say, "It is safe in my gun." To my knowledge the gun never blew up but to me, it made more sense to just get a common 30-06 or better a 30 cal mag if that was the goal.
I have a Ruger in 45 Colt. It is a fine revolver but comparing the amount of metal between chambers in the cylinder to my Super Blackhawk 44 mag (MAP 36,000 PSI) or the Blackhawk in 327 mag (MAP 45,000 PSI), and certainly the 460 mag (65K); the cylinder walls on the 45 Colt are thinner and not built to take big pressure. All I am saying if the need is to shoot bullets over 225 grain over 1000 fps, why not look at revolver designed and built to do that--a 454 for example? Good luck in your endeavors. YMMV
I have a Ruger in 45 Colt. It is a fine revolver but comparing the amount of metal between chambers in the cylinder to my Super Blackhawk 44 mag (MAP 36,000 PSI) or the Blackhawk in 327 mag (MAP 45,000 PSI), and certainly the 460 mag (65K); the cylinder walls on the 45 Colt are thinner and not built to take big pressure. All I am saying if the need is to shoot bullets over 225 grain over 1000 fps, why not look at revolver designed and built to do that--a 454 for example? Good luck in your endeavors. YMMV
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Like I said, an oft-repeated warning but destructive tests and decades of experience have taught us that the fears are unfounded. Of course, that doesn't keep people from believing and repeating them. If it was an issue, do you think Speer would be printing "Ruger only" data? What about Hodgdon?
If you had read the article I linked to, you would know the .45 Blackhawks have been tested to destruction and found to be 80% as strong as their .44Mag brethren.
The brass works just fine at 55,000psi in custom five-shots.
Just another example of those that do being told they cannot do something by those who have never even tried.
Saleen322
Member
I can only assume you are referring to Ruger?? I have it in writing direct from them that they do not recommend anything above SAAMI but I do not know what they did or did not try. My thoughts are pretty clear when I wrote, "While maybe firearms can be loaded with rounds above SAAMI limits, that doesn't mean it is a good idea." That is not saying what someone else can or cannot do. YMMV
Ed Ames
Member
Nor does it mean it is a bad idea. It really doesn't mean anything about guns. It may mean something about you, but I'm not even sure about that.
Ruger did this to themselves with their habit of playing cutesy lawyer games. E.g. the whole, "We don't offer any warranty because warranties are legal obligations and we don't want those, but we do fix defective guns just don't call it a warranty," schtick. You can't trust what they say because they will lie if they think it reduces their legal exposure. All you can do is test what they sell and see how the hardware actually performs.
Which people other than Ruger have done.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
No, I'm talking about you.
I suggest you start lobbying Speer/Alliant, Hodgdon's, Lyman, etc. to stop publishing their "Ruger only" data, since you seem to think you know better than everyone else. Since you seem to know better than those who tested the guns to destruction, did the testing, did the load development, had the loads pressure tested and then all the rest who have been using these loads in these guns for decades.
Your warning has been stated and as I said, it's been said before......an infinite number of times. The safety police has been heard. Now let it rest instead of continuing to derail the thread.
Saleen322
Member
I believe reloading manual writers do a good job overall so no lobby with me there. Further, I have no pressure testing equipment (nor plan to get any) to develop my own technical data but I do keep pretty good records of loads that work. That system has worked for me for some 40 years or so. I also think an objective review of the posts in this thread will show that I have been civil and not the one derailing the thread. I do agree to let it rest is the best course.
For the life of me I cannot understand why folks cannot make their points without getting personal.
This same old argument seems to happen every time in .45 Colt threads. We are not even at one page yet and the thread is getting out of control.
Please refrain from personal remarks, stick to making your points, and maybe the OP can get some good answers from which he can derive a conclusion.
This same old argument seems to happen every time in .45 Colt threads. We are not even at one page yet and the thread is getting out of control.
Please refrain from personal remarks, stick to making your points, and maybe the OP can get some good answers from which he can derive a conclusion.
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