LASIK and Shooting -- My Experience
- Thread starter Grampa
- Start date
- Status
The condition you mention is called presbyopia. I think any reputable Lasik clinic would mention this during your evaluation. Especially for those getting older.
Since this is a condition of your lens inside your eye and Lasik reshapes your cornea on the surface of your eye, there would be no way for Lasik to affect that condition anyway.
There are new intra ocular lenses (IOL) available specifically to correct astigmatism (Toric lenses) or presbyopia (Restore or Crystalens). You may be a candidate to have these new technology IOL's implanted if/when you have your cataracts removed. Depending on your insurance(s) much of the costs may be covered.
If you do not have cataracts you can still choose to have lens replacement. With Restor this would correct for both refractive (near/farsightedness) and presbyopia. However since for this purpose it would be strictly refractive surgery (like Lasik) most insurances do not cover it. Out of pocket costs depending on where you go may be somewhat higher than Lasik since these procedures should be done in an operating room and anesthesia would be required. Whereas Lasik can be done in office without the need for general anesthesia.
wally
Member
Financing it
If you company offers a 401K they probably also offer a "Health Spending Account" where you pay $X/pay period and its deducted from your gross salery. Then you spend $X*Nperiods on medical expenses and/or supplies (contacts, glasses, lasik, dentists, etc.) and get reimbursed so you end up paying the bills with pre-tax dollars. A nice savings off the top equal to your tax bracket percentage!
To follow-up my monovision contact trials, the ones without the astigmatism correction were ultimately useless but encouraging, just got two with the astigmatism correction, one distance, the other near, this way I can try both options -- mono-vision and hopefully no glasses or just continue with the drugstore cheaters on top of the astigmatism distance corrected contact. If either of these options end up working well for the rest of the year I'll put the blade-free lasik fee on my HSA for next year.
I still have trouble getting the contact in and out, but hope to try the newest ones this weekend.
--wally.
If you company offers a 401K they probably also offer a "Health Spending Account" where you pay $X/pay period and its deducted from your gross salery. Then you spend $X*Nperiods on medical expenses and/or supplies (contacts, glasses, lasik, dentists, etc.) and get reimbursed so you end up paying the bills with pre-tax dollars. A nice savings off the top equal to your tax bracket percentage!
To follow-up my monovision contact trials, the ones without the astigmatism correction were ultimately useless but encouraging, just got two with the astigmatism correction, one distance, the other near, this way I can try both options -- mono-vision and hopefully no glasses or just continue with the drugstore cheaters on top of the astigmatism distance corrected contact. If either of these options end up working well for the rest of the year I'll put the blade-free lasik fee on my HSA for next year.
I still have trouble getting the contact in and out, but hope to try the newest ones this weekend.
--wally.
I got LASIK in 2000 and my vision was to the point that I only knew one letter on the chart, E. After surgury I have 20/20 in the right and 20/25 in the left, but my left eye is clearer. My right eye, shooting eye, is a bit cloudy which has proven to be a bit of a dissappointment. I shoot most things with both eyes open now as my stereo vision is awesome.
I just wish they would have warned me about the smell
.
I just wish they would have warned me about the smell
.RockyMtnTactical
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,539
Strange...
My wife got Lasik and has had nothing but positive from it all. Nothing negative at all.
I have good eyes so I never really thought about it like this until somewhat recently, but if we were awaken in the middle of the night, she'd have to fumble around looking for glasses or go to the BR to put on her contacts to see...
Now, if we are waken by a burglar or some other perp, she can get up and I can toss her a weapon that she can use.
Lasik is a great thing from what I have seen.
My wife got Lasik and has had nothing but positive from it all. Nothing negative at all.
I have good eyes so I never really thought about it like this until somewhat recently, but if we were awaken in the middle of the night, she'd have to fumble around looking for glasses or go to the BR to put on her contacts to see...
Now, if we are waken by a burglar or some other perp, she can get up and I can toss her a weapon that she can use.
Lasik is a great thing from what I have seen.
I'll stick with contact lenses. Stuff like this scares me:
Iris repair after a catastrophic laser in situ keratomileusis complication
M. Bowes Hamill, MD, William H. Quayle, MD
J Cataract Refract Surg. 2005 Nov;31(11):2216-20.
During the forward pass of the microkeratome in the first (right) eye, the patient experienced severe pain. The surgeon noted a sudden gush of fluid present on the surgical field and, upon removing the suction ring, observed a full-thickness corneal laceration, iris prolapse, and a flat anterior chamber.
http://www.lasikflap.com/forum/index.php
Iris repair after a catastrophic laser in situ keratomileusis complication
M. Bowes Hamill, MD, William H. Quayle, MD
J Cataract Refract Surg. 2005 Nov;31(11):2216-20.
During the forward pass of the microkeratome in the first (right) eye, the patient experienced severe pain. The surgeon noted a sudden gush of fluid present on the surgical field and, upon removing the suction ring, observed a full-thickness corneal laceration, iris prolapse, and a flat anterior chamber.
http://www.lasikflap.com/forum/index.php
ezypikns
Member
I'm 59....
Oddly enough, my distance vision has improved slightly. I need glasses for reading now, but I can still see the front sight of my pistol or revolver quite clearly. I think I'll leave everything alone. Because I'm able to practice a lot, I can still outshoot a bunch of the youger guys.
Oddly enough, my distance vision has improved slightly. I need glasses for reading now, but I can still see the front sight of my pistol or revolver quite clearly. I think I'll leave everything alone. Because I'm able to practice a lot, I can still outshoot a bunch of the youger guys.
I was just past my 41st birthday when I had Custom Vue Lasik January 8, 2007.
My eyeglasses Rx was OD -3.75 +0.75 x 107
OS -4.00 +1.75 x 060
That's about 20/400 in laymen's terms; nearsightedness and astigmatism. I could not watch TV, read the paper at normal distance, or even safely walk about the house without glasses. I sure as heck could not drive.
I went to one of the most experienced docs in the region. Several friends have used him with good results. They have taken varying times to get max correction, depending on age, level of correction, etc. Despite what some say in sales pitches, it's not a 20 minute miracle, but up to a 6 month program of recovery. But.. some folks recover much quicker. It varies.
After the surgery:
Younger folks or folks who need less correction often take less time to heal and come around. It's taking my older eyes a bit of time to come around. I had pretty blurry vision for about a week, and then it started to rapidly sharpen day by day.
3 weeks out: Read 3 or more of the 6 letters on the 20/20 line with each eye, but they were a bit fuzzy, and there were ghosts floating above the line and at a 45 degree angle. Halos driving at night, but reducing somewhat with time.
30 days out (yesterday): Things are much better. I'd say I am about 95% of where I need to be. Fully functional driving and reading, etc., but I still lack the full degree of sharpness I desire. Still see halos around lights at night.
I have an appt Monday, so we'll see how I test then. My natural tear screen has not come back fully yet, and max improvement won't happen until then. But no serious dry eye (common side effect of Lasik) problems. I know the tear screen function is not fully back because (2 weeks or so ago) I could chop onions with no sting or tear reflex.
Doc said at 6 weeks out we should have a good indication of what the eventual results will be. He (at last visit) was very pleased with the results and healing of the flap thus far.
One friend (who used another doc) said she took a full 6 months of fluctuating vision before it all came together for her, but it did get 100% for her.
I've not worn glasses, except sunglasses, since the surgery. And I had worn them in all waking hours since I was a child. Yahoo!!
Time will tell, but I think it is going to be a good thing. Your mileage may vary.
I'll try to provide an objective update as things progress.
MZ5
Member
I'm in my 30s and had Lasik performed a couple years ago. Overall it's pretty decent, but my night vision is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. In contrast to an early poster in this thread, I told the doctor about the fact that I have large pupils and that I used to see over the top of my gas permeable contacts in the past. They measured my pupils in a pitch black room and assured me that there would be no issue. Well, there is, so I now have considerable difficulty stargazing or doing most things at night that require excellent acuity because of the streaks from light points. This was NOT a problem for me when my contacts were working properly.
Also, I was looking through the peep sights on a rifle the other day, and the hole through the peep doesn't look round. I thought there was something in the peep at first, but it's just something wrong with my vision. Frankly, even though I have lifetime 'touch-ups,' I have to get to 20/40 first (which I'm not in bright light), and even then I'm not sure I want another surgery done on my eyes. It's probably just a mental thing, but I have visions of scar tissue problems or other such things.
Also, I was looking through the peep sights on a rifle the other day, and the hole through the peep doesn't look round. I thought there was something in the peep at first, but it's just something wrong with my vision. Frankly, even though I have lifetime 'touch-ups,' I have to get to 20/40 first (which I'm not in bright light), and even then I'm not sure I want another surgery done on my eyes. It's probably just a mental thing, but I have visions of scar tissue problems or other such things.
FYI all, besides researching your doctors and ensuring their creds, you should know that MANY of the problems with Lasik mentioned here have to do with 2 things.
During your evaluation besides your general medical history etc, THEY MUST dilate your eyes and measure your corneal thickness.
I don't believe it is acceptable to simply measure your pupils in a darkened room. By dilating your eyes it ensures your pupils are at their maximum diameter. The point is this measurement is used to ensure when they cut the flap the cut/scar is outside of the pupils. When the cut is close or inside the maximum pupil diameter, that is when you see halos etc at night.
Second, they must measure your corneal thickness. This is also used to calculate where the flap is cut. If your corneas are too thin, you should not be a candidate for Lasik, but should consider PRK instead. I believe the picture above (guessing) is a graphic example of what happens when you either cut the flap too deeply or the corneas were too thin for the procedure to begin with.
During your evaluation besides your general medical history etc, THEY MUST dilate your eyes and measure your corneal thickness.
I don't believe it is acceptable to simply measure your pupils in a darkened room. By dilating your eyes it ensures your pupils are at their maximum diameter. The point is this measurement is used to ensure when they cut the flap the cut/scar is outside of the pupils. When the cut is close or inside the maximum pupil diameter, that is when you see halos etc at night.
Second, they must measure your corneal thickness. This is also used to calculate where the flap is cut. If your corneas are too thin, you should not be a candidate for Lasik, but should consider PRK instead. I believe the picture above (guessing) is a graphic example of what happens when you either cut the flap too deeply or the corneas were too thin for the procedure to begin with.
Sindawe
Member
Gak indeed! While an interesting and apparently normally successful procedure, those cases where it goes horribly wrong are the reason I'll not go under the knife for the eyes until its routine to just replace the whole eye with a custom grown job. I've lived with corrective lenses since I was in 2nd grade, so its just part of my routine now.I'll throw in my experience so far.
I am 52, wore glasses since I was 5. About -3.75 in both eyes, with minor astigmatism in the left only. I wore soft contacts for about ten years since high school, then went back to glasses (raising young kids and working on computer screens sometimes 48 hours straight). Kids are grown and I was sick of glasses (rain, fogging, can't see curbs or trails well when running) so I thought about eye surgery.
Two of my sisters (50s also) had Lasik done a few years ago and both love it still. Neither is a shooter.
I finally decided to try soft lenses again for a year or so to see if I would be OK with the good distance vision and reading glasses combo. I ended up with Accuvue lenses which are amazingly comfortable (I have the one month version). My right eye (dominant) was fully corrected and my distance vision is totally amazing. But I can;t see anything closer than about 3 feet so reading is pretty much impassible with just that eye.
The left eye is slightly less corrected (I think the right is -3.75 and the left is -3.650) so I have marginal reading ability up to about 18". Closer than 18" with either eye requires reading glasses, and I use about 1.50.
Together I have better distance vision than I ever had with glasses, fantastic peripheral vision, and no discomfort on the nose, no fogging, etc. In good light I can read fairly well by holding the page out to 18" or more. For closer work or poor light conditions I need reading glasses (fine print, gunsmithing. etc.).
Now for shooting. Unfortunately, handgun iron sights are the worst situation. Like a previous poster stated, they are a kind of blurring now, whereas with glasses I could get a very sharp front sight. I find it best to have a more open rear sight so I can see the open space on either side of the front sight. with the same gun I could shoot 2" groups at 25 yds. now I can do just 3-4" at best. That is still acceptable for defensive purposes.
I am now thinking seriously of going for the eye surgery after my youngest daughter gets married off this summer. The degradation of front sight picture is acceptable considering the fantastic distance clarity and elimination of encumbrances and glasses. I am working with my optometrist who will examine my eyes thoroughly and then recommend whether to have eye surgery at all, and if so which type is best (wave front, Lasik, PRK, etc.).
It would be easy to find some eye glass correction specifically for shooting with contacts/eye surgery, but I want to practice under the circumstances I will likely find myself on the street, not artificially tuned for the range. I may try out the AO Express sight and the Crimson Trace laser (besides, my youngest daughter wants one for her GP100). At a minimum I am going to have all my handgun sights refitted with more open read sights with slightly wider front blades. My G23 tritium sights are pretty decent already, as well as my SIG P245. Makarov sights are now impossible, as well as the small older BHP.
I am 52, wore glasses since I was 5. About -3.75 in both eyes, with minor astigmatism in the left only. I wore soft contacts for about ten years since high school, then went back to glasses (raising young kids and working on computer screens sometimes 48 hours straight). Kids are grown and I was sick of glasses (rain, fogging, can't see curbs or trails well when running) so I thought about eye surgery.
Two of my sisters (50s also) had Lasik done a few years ago and both love it still. Neither is a shooter.
I finally decided to try soft lenses again for a year or so to see if I would be OK with the good distance vision and reading glasses combo. I ended up with Accuvue lenses which are amazingly comfortable (I have the one month version). My right eye (dominant) was fully corrected and my distance vision is totally amazing. But I can;t see anything closer than about 3 feet so reading is pretty much impassible with just that eye.
The left eye is slightly less corrected (I think the right is -3.75 and the left is -3.650) so I have marginal reading ability up to about 18". Closer than 18" with either eye requires reading glasses, and I use about 1.50.
Together I have better distance vision than I ever had with glasses, fantastic peripheral vision, and no discomfort on the nose, no fogging, etc. In good light I can read fairly well by holding the page out to 18" or more. For closer work or poor light conditions I need reading glasses (fine print, gunsmithing. etc.).
Now for shooting. Unfortunately, handgun iron sights are the worst situation. Like a previous poster stated, they are a kind of blurring now, whereas with glasses I could get a very sharp front sight. I find it best to have a more open rear sight so I can see the open space on either side of the front sight. with the same gun I could shoot 2" groups at 25 yds. now I can do just 3-4" at best. That is still acceptable for defensive purposes.
I am now thinking seriously of going for the eye surgery after my youngest daughter gets married off this summer. The degradation of front sight picture is acceptable considering the fantastic distance clarity and elimination of encumbrances and glasses. I am working with my optometrist who will examine my eyes thoroughly and then recommend whether to have eye surgery at all, and if so which type is best (wave front, Lasik, PRK, etc.).
It would be easy to find some eye glass correction specifically for shooting with contacts/eye surgery, but I want to practice under the circumstances I will likely find myself on the street, not artificially tuned for the range. I may try out the AO Express sight and the Crimson Trace laser (besides, my youngest daughter wants one for her GP100). At a minimum I am going to have all my handgun sights refitted with more open read sights with slightly wider front blades. My G23 tritium sights are pretty decent already, as well as my SIG P245. Makarov sights are now impossible, as well as the small older BHP.
tuckerdog1
Member
Some other responses from a similar thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=191440
Tuckerdog1
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=191440
Tuckerdog1
MZ5
Member
Well, they did dilate my eyes as well and measured my corneal thickness. That isn't the problem. I do not see halos. There is a line of light through the point source. This line is along the axis of my (former) astigmatism in each eye. Unfortunately, those axes are different between my eyes, so the net effect is a slightly squashed "X" through light sources.
The issue with me appears to be that my corneas are larger than the area of correction they made. The surgeon performing the procedure (not the same doctor as the one who did the evaluation) even gave a "wow!" and called the nurse over to see how large the first one was. I made a(nother) comment then to be sure they opened the laser wide enough to correct properly and I was assured there would be no problem. There is. It's not a vision destroyer, and frankly I doubt the 'average' person would notice or care comparatively speaking. However, it's made trouble for me.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
My corneal thickness was a little on the low side but still in the safe range. I think he said it was like 629 (but I have no idea what that is referring to. .629mm?)
Let's crank this thread up again.
I posted above about my recent surgery.
I'm now 3.5 months out. No eye-health problems, but I was under-corrected a bit. I am settled in at -0.75 (nearsighted) in both eyes, but my astigmatism is gone. I can read most of the 20/20 line.
I don't need glasses, but my vision is not clear/sharp enough to suit me or the Doc.
I am going in next week for the eupehemistically named "enhancement" procedure. It's no charge under our arrangement, but it sucks to have to go through the recovery process (drops, meds, dry eyes, etc.) again.
Wish me luck!
I posted above about my recent surgery.
I'm now 3.5 months out. No eye-health problems, but I was under-corrected a bit. I am settled in at -0.75 (nearsighted) in both eyes, but my astigmatism is gone. I can read most of the 20/20 line.
I don't need glasses, but my vision is not clear/sharp enough to suit me or the Doc.
I am going in next week for the eupehemistically named "enhancement" procedure. It's no charge under our arrangement, but it sucks to have to go through the recovery process (drops, meds, dry eyes, etc.) again.
Wish me luck!
carebear
Member
Good news!
Good luck on the enhancement.
Good luck on the enhancement.
I had mine done 3 years ago. Custom wavefront LASIK. I went from 20/what chart to 20/15. Of course I need cheaters. My doc knew I was a shooter beforehand and asked one eye or both eyes open? Also wnated to know pistol. rifle, shotgun. When I said all of the above and both eyes open he said monovision would not be a benifit. My doc is a professor and makes sure he has the latest Laser and software. He says about 1/3 of his practice is fixing the stop and zap laser centers mistakes. Not bad docs he says but older lasers to keep expenses down. My wife had PRK done on Thursday. She has thin Corneas and BIG perscription She was somewhere like 20/is that a car infront of us as we were stoped at a stoplight. I was in the room during the surgery. The doc says that he is trying to get away from LASIK and go with just PRK. He says PRK is alot more precise and there is not the regression in acuity that you can get with LASIK. The reason he does not is because people want the instant gratifaction of LASIK. My wife 2 days post-op still has burning sensations in both eyes. They say this is normal. I did not get the choice three years ago but now he gives everyone a choice if they can have LASIK. Of course my wife had no choice PRK only. If you have the time for recovery and can put up with someocular discomfort I would recomend the PRK even though I am totaly happy with my LASIK and have had no regression I my have been lucky. I also asked him about FLAP damage from shottys or Highpowered rifles. He said the only flap problem, outside of surgical complications, was a man whose truck had a brake fire when he was inspecting things the tire blew a chunk hit im in the face. The R flap was torn away and the cornea was tore open. The L eye had corneal lacerations. After healing the right eye needed glasses again. He said all flap problems are written up and this is the only one he is aware of in IL. Please pardon spelling, typing, and gramatical errors there is WAY too much blood in my caffine system.Thats my excuse and I am sticking to it
Len
Len
Thanks to all for posting their experiences.
My wife & I just got new glasses - progressives for both. The last pair was OK, I could live with them, but this new set is terrible! I'm waiting for a second pair of lenses, they're moving the focal point down a bit.
During the exam the doc said I'd be a good candidate for Lazik. After wearing glasses for over 40 years I'm seriously considering it now. One of the main reasons I've been hesitant is because of the possibility of damage from shooting, motorcycling, welding etc.
From reading the posts here, it looks as if I may start looking into getting it done.
My wife & I just got new glasses - progressives for both. The last pair was OK, I could live with them, but this new set is terrible! I'm waiting for a second pair of lenses, they're moving the focal point down a bit.
During the exam the doc said I'd be a good candidate for Lazik. After wearing glasses for over 40 years I'm seriously considering it now. One of the main reasons I've been hesitant is because of the possibility of damage from shooting, motorcycling, welding etc.
From reading the posts here, it looks as if I may start looking into getting it done.
A question for those who've had it done - how did you pick a doctor?
In DFW there are a number of big operations that advertise on the radio (including a couple who talk about their deep discounts - no thanks!), but I can't find a good Consumer Reports-y resource on different doctors. I would call and ask about problem/failure rates, but I don't really expect the responses to be meaningful.
In DFW there are a number of big operations that advertise on the radio (including a couple who talk about their deep discounts - no thanks!), but I can't find a good Consumer Reports-y resource on different doctors. I would call and ask about problem/failure rates, but I don't really expect the responses to be meaningful.
I have several friends who used this doc with good results. That was my primary reason for selecting him. He is also one of the most experienced Lasik guys in the area. I did not take price into consideration at all. Pick the best and pay the price.
The site linked below certifies Lasik docs and has some good info. It has a bulletin board to read the experiences of others. Bear in mind that people who have problems are most likely to search out the board an post.
http://www.usaeyes.org/
I do not know about that site. But I do know that the only doc listed in IL runs a chain. The doc I went to is a professor of opthmalogical surgery. Gets the lastest in lasers and software from the mfg.and is the Md other docs send their mistakes to and he is not listed. The best way to find a doc is word of mouth. Find out who has had it and if they are happy. Cliff, as I stated in my previous post I had Lasik three years ago and am still happy but my wife just had PRK the doc said it is more precise and would recommend it over lasik. The downside is longer time of discomfort, my wife says pain, and logner healing time. The lasik flap does take about 1 year to heal but you do not feel it or notice it. I had no discomfort at all. There is less regression in PRK that in LASIK. MY doc does run specials like right now it is 3000.00 for both eyes.
LEN
LEN
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
I would be careful of the usaeyes site. It doesn't seem to be fully on the up and up.
My recommendation would be to go to a surgeon at a hospital rather than a gun running a LASIK clinic. If you check out my post earlier in this thread (#71) . You'll see that two surgeons at hospitals recommended I NOT do LASIK, but the one LASIK center I went to told me I was a perfect candidate and gave me a hard sell to put down money that day.
I had a check-up yesterday at 2.5 months after my PRK. Right now I see 20/20.
My recommendation would be to go to a surgeon at a hospital rather than a gun running a LASIK clinic. If you check out my post earlier in this thread (#71) . You'll see that two surgeons at hospitals recommended I NOT do LASIK, but the one LASIK center I went to told me I was a perfect candidate and gave me a hard sell to put down money that day.
I had a check-up yesterday at 2.5 months after my PRK. Right now I see 20/20.
I'm having LASIK done on Monday morning. My contact script is 5.00 right and 3.00 left whatever that means. I'm nearsighted. I have been wearing some type of corrective lens since I was 12 years old or so. I'm very looking forward to LASIK on Monday. I've been waiting ever since it became available in 1991. I finally got to the point where my pescription was stable enough to go and have it done. Monday is the day.
My Doc, Dr. Corbit of NH Eye Assosciates, has been doing LASIK since it became available in 91. He has done thousands of procedures since it's inception and has an impecable track record. I know that doesnt ensure 100% success but it certainly makes you fell better about doing it! I've been through 3 seperate pre-flights before finally getting my date under the laser. My doc has been very meticulous and very particular in ensuring that he has every possible measurement available and accurate data for my LASIK on Monday. I'm very confident that my surgery will go well and I'll finally be free of contacts or glasses! I can't wait!
Quick FYI : I'm 32 years old, again nearsighted prescript w/no other eye problems, and my LASIK is going to be done using the newest Customvue LASIK available right now. My OP is running me $2400 for both eyes. Normal cost is $4400 to the public, but I am a Career Firefighter here in NH and that gets me a $2000 dollar discount with the CMC Eye Center where my LASIK is going to be done.
Wish me luck! I'll post back the middle os next week and let you guys know how everything worked out....
My Doc, Dr. Corbit of NH Eye Assosciates, has been doing LASIK since it became available in 91. He has done thousands of procedures since it's inception and has an impecable track record. I know that doesnt ensure 100% success but it certainly makes you fell better about doing it! I've been through 3 seperate pre-flights before finally getting my date under the laser. My doc has been very meticulous and very particular in ensuring that he has every possible measurement available and accurate data for my LASIK on Monday. I'm very confident that my surgery will go well and I'll finally be free of contacts or glasses! I can't wait!
Quick FYI : I'm 32 years old, again nearsighted prescript w/no other eye problems, and my LASIK is going to be done using the newest Customvue LASIK available right now. My OP is running me $2400 for both eyes. Normal cost is $4400 to the public, but I am a Career Firefighter here in NH and that gets me a $2000 dollar discount with the CMC Eye Center where my LASIK is going to be done.
Wish me luck! I'll post back the middle os next week and let you guys know how everything worked out....
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
