P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
OK, this is quite long but I hope may be helpful to someone later. Thought of putting it in ''Gunsmithing'' but on balance here seems better.
I ordered some CT grips for K/L/N frame to fit on my M28-2, which I want to promote to possible carry piece status. On initially trying to fit them had problems .... they wouldn't snug into place fully. Before doing anything .. I called CT and spoke to Jon .. who is I think their main design engineer. VERY pleasant and helpful guy, who quickly reassured me that small changes made by me would not invalidate the warranty. My SP-101 CT grips BTW went on first time .. no probs.
We discussed various aspects and he got me up to speed on what could and could not be adjusted for fit. Fairly obviously probably .. the top ''arch'' and the pin registration hole at bottom are the prime locators .... various other parts can be eased safely.
''Why should I have to bother'' I hear asked. Well ... first and foremost, these grips are made exceptionally well .. and to pretty tight tolerances and whilst there should be good uniformity across the elligible models ....... seems well possible that now and again there may be slight problems..... this is not a failure in materials or workmanship IMO. More a slight problem from making a grip set covering three frame sizes.
I have them fitted now but ... just in case anyone else has a similar problem, thought I'd post a few pics and an explanation, because for a while it had me quite puzzled.
The first side to fit is from choice I'd say the laser (right) side .... and when trying this ... found that I could engage top (with slight difficulty) - OR - bottom, but not both. It felt like there was something acting as a fulcrum near middle. Gave the effect of behaving like a teeter-totter. Visual inspection showed however, no apparent high spots but I did find the beginnings of one or two slight rub marks .. showing tightness of fit here and there.
One of these was a small sprue of plastic on the front part of the arch ... minor but ... carefully knifed that off.... that is position #4 on pic of right grip. Then noticed too a slight rub on a sorta flat shelf behind the arch .. that's #3 on the pic .. again relieved this ...... finding BTW that best tool for job was a very sharp 1/8" wide wood chisel ... easy to pare off very small shavings, used with bevel to top.
Still problems tho so ..... next was closer inspection of the area behind finger switch .... #5 and #6 ...... the support (containment) arms within which the switch resides ... are plenty generous but not that important .. seemed as tho these were over tight on front spine of the gun's butt frame. Some material was removed here also. Things were improving but ... there was still this mysterious pivotal effect ... top or bottom would snug in but not the whole piece ... ''something'' was still stopping the lower middle from settling in.
Look now to #1 area, bracketed on the pic. This turned out to be the most important to deal with. The rear spine of the butt frame is as many will know, ribbed .... quite common on some Smiths (tho IIRC, my old 686 was plain and a K frame also) .... but when viewed from an end-on aspect .. it was apparent that it is not only effectively slightly curved across its profile, but the edges were if anything more raised than you might expect ....... almost a larger edge rib. The diagram I have included below shows this - very exaggerated .. it also shows the profile of the grip area into which it must fit.
Now it seems that the recess on the grip that accepts this is not square to the grip ''join edge'' .. it is seemingly a bit shy of 90º ... maybe 85º .... and so while the grip seems initially to go on ..... it cannot seat right down deep ... because of the edge of the butt frame rear spine not having enough space. The answer was, to progressively remove some material to get the problem area relieved, just a bit at a time .... until eventually the rear butt frame spine could seat all the way. Once achieved, the impression of a fulcrum was gone.
The final place for relief .... was #2 ..... this was quite minor but also seemed to need same easing as with the large #1 area... to cut away a bit to achieve a full 90º included angle. The mainspring adjustment screw tho slightly protruding was no problem.
The left grip ... also required some attention but only in fact to the #1 area, shown again bracketed ... same treatment given, until fit achieved. Not quite as much needed removed.
Albeit some fiddle ... but now all sorted out ...... and I am not upset at the product .. I just think that the N frame may be a slightly different case, whereby tolerances are just that shade too tight .. better that way tho IMO. I am sending details of changes to CT in case it helps them another time.
Now the pics ......... first is the right grip .. containing batteries and laser ........ areas worked on numbered as referred to above...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the ''passive'' left grip ... just the one area #1 requiring some relief.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's the diagram . VERY basic and exaggerated .... but I have shown the end view of the rear butt frame to demonstrate the effective ''plusage'' at edges ....... and to the left, in line with that, is the area of the grip where some material was removed to allow full depth seating. Hope it makes enough sense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And finally .... the finished job!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I ordered some CT grips for K/L/N frame to fit on my M28-2, which I want to promote to possible carry piece status. On initially trying to fit them had problems .... they wouldn't snug into place fully. Before doing anything .. I called CT and spoke to Jon .. who is I think their main design engineer. VERY pleasant and helpful guy, who quickly reassured me that small changes made by me would not invalidate the warranty. My SP-101 CT grips BTW went on first time .. no probs.
We discussed various aspects and he got me up to speed on what could and could not be adjusted for fit. Fairly obviously probably .. the top ''arch'' and the pin registration hole at bottom are the prime locators .... various other parts can be eased safely.
''Why should I have to bother'' I hear asked. Well ... first and foremost, these grips are made exceptionally well .. and to pretty tight tolerances and whilst there should be good uniformity across the elligible models ....... seems well possible that now and again there may be slight problems..... this is not a failure in materials or workmanship IMO. More a slight problem from making a grip set covering three frame sizes.
I have them fitted now but ... just in case anyone else has a similar problem, thought I'd post a few pics and an explanation, because for a while it had me quite puzzled.
The first side to fit is from choice I'd say the laser (right) side .... and when trying this ... found that I could engage top (with slight difficulty) - OR - bottom, but not both. It felt like there was something acting as a fulcrum near middle. Gave the effect of behaving like a teeter-totter. Visual inspection showed however, no apparent high spots but I did find the beginnings of one or two slight rub marks .. showing tightness of fit here and there.
One of these was a small sprue of plastic on the front part of the arch ... minor but ... carefully knifed that off.... that is position #4 on pic of right grip. Then noticed too a slight rub on a sorta flat shelf behind the arch .. that's #3 on the pic .. again relieved this ...... finding BTW that best tool for job was a very sharp 1/8" wide wood chisel ... easy to pare off very small shavings, used with bevel to top.
Still problems tho so ..... next was closer inspection of the area behind finger switch .... #5 and #6 ...... the support (containment) arms within which the switch resides ... are plenty generous but not that important .. seemed as tho these were over tight on front spine of the gun's butt frame. Some material was removed here also. Things were improving but ... there was still this mysterious pivotal effect ... top or bottom would snug in but not the whole piece ... ''something'' was still stopping the lower middle from settling in.
Look now to #1 area, bracketed on the pic. This turned out to be the most important to deal with. The rear spine of the butt frame is as many will know, ribbed .... quite common on some Smiths (tho IIRC, my old 686 was plain and a K frame also) .... but when viewed from an end-on aspect .. it was apparent that it is not only effectively slightly curved across its profile, but the edges were if anything more raised than you might expect ....... almost a larger edge rib. The diagram I have included below shows this - very exaggerated .. it also shows the profile of the grip area into which it must fit.
Now it seems that the recess on the grip that accepts this is not square to the grip ''join edge'' .. it is seemingly a bit shy of 90º ... maybe 85º .... and so while the grip seems initially to go on ..... it cannot seat right down deep ... because of the edge of the butt frame rear spine not having enough space. The answer was, to progressively remove some material to get the problem area relieved, just a bit at a time .... until eventually the rear butt frame spine could seat all the way. Once achieved, the impression of a fulcrum was gone.
The final place for relief .... was #2 ..... this was quite minor but also seemed to need same easing as with the large #1 area... to cut away a bit to achieve a full 90º included angle. The mainspring adjustment screw tho slightly protruding was no problem.
The left grip ... also required some attention but only in fact to the #1 area, shown again bracketed ... same treatment given, until fit achieved. Not quite as much needed removed.
Albeit some fiddle ... but now all sorted out ...... and I am not upset at the product .. I just think that the N frame may be a slightly different case, whereby tolerances are just that shade too tight .. better that way tho IMO. I am sending details of changes to CT in case it helps them another time.
Now the pics ......... first is the right grip .. containing batteries and laser ........ areas worked on numbered as referred to above...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the ''passive'' left grip ... just the one area #1 requiring some relief.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's the diagram . VERY basic and exaggerated .... but I have shown the end view of the rear butt frame to demonstrate the effective ''plusage'' at edges ....... and to the left, in line with that, is the area of the grip where some material was removed to allow full depth seating. Hope it makes enough sense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And finally .... the finished job!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
