Lead casting question

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JCSC

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I have been reading a bit and watching some videos on bullet casting.

I had two quick questions and would like opinions from the tenured casters.

1st - can’t shoot lead in a Glock? Ive read some reviews based on rifling styles.

2nd - what is hardcast and when and how is it made and why?

I have a resource to collect fired lead and thought it may be a cheap fun hobby to cast 9mm for glocks. Just for ringing steel purposes. Second ambition would be 45 cal bullets.
 
Two opinions on Glocks and lead. The polygonal rifling will build up lead faster than regular rifling and can contribute to overpressure conditions. I avoid lead in my G43. I do shoot plated. Hard cast is a term that is overused and means the lead is alloyed with tin and antimony to a very high BHN. Most are too hard and will also contribute to leading if loads aren’t hot enough to cause obturation especially in revolvers. Some swap in aftermarket barrels to shoot lead in Glocks.
I have found wheelweight metal to work for about anything I want to do but it is getting hard to find. Linotype was absolutely the best for my rifles.
 
Depending on who you talk to, there's no problem shooting lead out of Glock barrels, or you're unwittingly making a homemade pipe bomb and will eventually KB your pistol. I only have one Gen 2 Glock 22 that was pretty worn, wouldn't group smaller than a paper plate at 25yds, so I swapped in a Wilson match bbl and tightened the groups up dramatically. The Wilson has traditional rifling rather than polygonal.

As mention by @PapaG, hard cast has varying degrees of tin and antimony added to increase hardness, depending on the desired velocity goals and other factors.
 
I have been reading a bit and watching some videos on bullet casting.

I had two quick questions and would like opinions from the tenured casters.

1st - can’t shoot lead in a Glock? Ive read some reviews based on rifling styles.

2nd - what is hardcast and when and how is it made and why?

I have a resource to collect fired lead and thought it may be a cheap fun hobby to cast 9mm for glocks. Just for ringing steel purposes. Second ambition would be 45 cal bullets.

Its generally considered dangerous to shoot lead in Glocks. There are several good aftermarket barrels available that will allow you to shoot cast bullets.

Hardcast is a lead alloy high in Tin and Antimony. Usually something on the order of 92% lead, 6% Antimony and 2% Tin. It cast great but its harder than necessary. Commercial casters like it because the hardness resist damage to their bullets during shipping.

I'm another that casts almost exclusively with clip-on wheelweights. While still available several states have outlawed their use and can be hard to find in some areas.
 
The polygonal rifling in a few articles I've
Read don't play well with lead. Glock just said to shoot zero reloads so they could bypass a huge chunk of liability and not deal with any questions like lead. Now that federal makes factory powdercoated lead they may be forced to answer if you ask them that question directly. I bought a storm lake stainless barrel for a hundred bucks, and never looked back. It was more accurate and had standard rifling.

I've never seen hardcast defined in any literature, but it's most likely way beyond optimal for proper opteration. Companies use excessive hardness for storage and shipping. In your case 45 would be easier and cheaper to get good results, and I would recommend you start there. The Lee 230 tc is a great bullet.
 
I shoot nothing but cast lead in my Glock 36 and 48. I have shot lead in many other Glocks as well. .40 caliber, 10MM, .45 ACP, 9MM etc. Glocks do great with lead.
 
I would think it still comes down to the fit of the bullet to the barrel. But I've not had a polygonal barrel.

If you try it, shoot a few at the middle of road loads and see if the barrel gets lead deposits. That's what I would do anyhow.
 
My Walther PPQ 9mm has a polygonal barrel and I shoot powder coated cast lead without issues. The fit of the bullet to the barrel has a big effect on leading.
I started with a LEE 0.356" sizing die. Reloads shot great, but I got a lot of leading. I switched to a 0.357" sizing die and the leading is gone.
 
I figured if I cast, I would powder coat. Does that cure the leading issue?

Some of it, yes. The rifling may cut through the PC. But for the most part, yeah, PC will reduce leading.

I have shot a little lead out of a standard G20 10mm. No issues. I did just buy a new aftermarket barrel for it but havent tried it out yet. Im not familiar with glock 9mm chambers but on the 10mm, the factory chamber is not fully supported and causes a bulge in the case. Aftermarket barrel chambers are fully supported. This makes the cases last longer.

Finding a barrel in 10mm is not hard but selection is terrible. Everybody and their brother make 9mm glock barrels.
 
Being a long time caster, an early interest in the Glock pistols, and living close to the Glock U.S. headquarters; AND, worked for an agency that issues Glocks, I was privy to some of the early incidents that involved lead bullets in Glocks.

Firstly, the first 4 generations of Glock barrels have the polygonal rifling. It wasn’t anything new, but Glocks application to pistols was new. Gen 1-2 had feed ramps 5hat didn’t completely support case heads.
The problem wasn’t entirely with the barrels.
It was the ammunition.
Federal had a 9mm and .40 loading in a promotional line (American Eagle) as well as Georgia Arms. These used swaged lead bullets and a dry lube. Combined with being slightly undersized to properly fill the grooves of the rifling the ammunition leaded badly, particularly in the lead or throats.

If cleaned frequently, problems were averted, but in high volume training environments, such often wasn’t observed.

One of my coworkers experienced a discharge that resulted in a case head failure while attending academy training. He wasn’t hurt badly, but required first aid for a cut from the extractor being blown from the gun. Required stitches. Gun was damaged beyond repair. A law suit between the agency/state and Glock ensued. Neither acknowledged culpability, but from then on, only new, jacketed ammo was issued. Glock donated some guns and assorted gear. The ammo was quality “remanufactured” ammo by a local concern; they donated replacement new manufacture jacketed bullet ammo. Glock re-emphasized NO RELOADS , added LEAD BULLETED ammo to warranty warnings.

I’ve shot thousands of cast lead bullets through my Gen 2 .40. (Same serial# run as previously mentioned pistol). No problems.
But, I clean my barrels/chambers frequently. And I size my bullets to .402” and use an effective lube.
25yrs later, my pistol now sports a BCA drop in barrel. Different feed ramp, throat, and rifling.

Like a previous poster, my gun was a 6-8” shooter at 25yds. The last time I shot it at the range with my .402” cast bullets, over 4.0gr of Bullseye, they shot ~2.5”-3” with the BCA barrel. A VAST improvement.
I think I paid $43 for my BCA barrel when they ran a sale...

I’ve shot some coated bullets but don’t see them as a panacea. The coating is as hard as lead (or harder) but can be scraped off and combined with combustion residue can equally foul a chamber as to cause bullet set-back or firing out of battery enough to permit case head blow out.

Your gun, you ammo, your choice. I advise closely inspecting and or plunking your ammo. And, run a brush occasionally through the bore.
 
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As an aside - my bullets come in at Lyman #2, are sized .452 (.45 ACP) and .358 (9MM). I lube them with home made beeswax/moly grease lube (50-50) and do a light roll around coating of Lee Liquid Alox as well. I get a little lead wash in the G48 depending on how long and how much I shoot it (it has the new cut rifling too). The G36 .45 experinces no traces of lead at all in the polygonal rifling. I would prefer the Poly rifling in the G48 to be honest. Either way all the Glocks I've shot with lead shoot better than I'm able to.
 
I shoot nekkid and PCed lead in my Masada (poly barrel) not excess leading. For as long as Glocks have been around with poly rifling, the "excess leading" controversy has been discussed (with a lot of "internet wisdom"). Go to the forum that is dedicated to cast lead bullets for definitive answers; https://castboolits.gunloads.com/

The key to shooting cast bullets is bullet to gun fit. Bullets for my Masada are .003" over "groove" diameter...
 
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I shot wax lubed cast bullets in my Glocks for quite awhile before I learned that I couldn’t. If you read the manual they also say to not shoot reloads at all.

They do lead but not near as bad as an SMG shooting cast. Of course coating, that doesn’t come off takes care of that problem. It’s also cheap to get a cut rifled drop in barrel and that does the trick too.

“hard cast” is kind of like “day time”, it’s qualitative and general. BHN numbers will give you more meaning.
 
If your considering casting your own bullets, do some study on powder coating your bullets. It can be cheap and easy.
For me easier then conventional lubing. Cleaner reloading, handling and shooting with less smoke.
I cast reclaimed range lead with no issues.
 
Powder coating is a true advancement.

It can make up for some other shortcomings here and there, one that comes to mind is bullet hardness/specific alloy isn't as critical as in the past.

That's not to say those things don't matter at all, please don't misunderstand, it just means that they're not as critical to making good loads out of home cast bullets as they once were.
 
I have cast, loaded and fired thousands of bullets in a wide range of calibers. I load cast for the 9mm in significant volumes. Getting leading free performance in the 9mm was more difficult for me than for any other caliber. I found casting for 45 ACPs pretty easy.

I urge you to consider casting for the 45 first. After you get the 45 working to your satisfaction, then try the 9mm.

The first 9MM load I worked up was for a Glock 19. With the 9mm the biggest challenge seems to be getting bullets that are big enough (I had to go to 0.359") that do not get swaged down too much by the brass (I now use a custom expander plug) and still having ammo that will plunk. With the above, my powder coated Lee 120 TC bullets cast from range scrap worked great even loaded to full power.

My son then "built" some "Glock style" 9mm guns from parts / kits. With each new gun, I found that I needed to open up the throat a little (I made a reamer) to get my existing ammo to plunk. But at least this way, all of our 9mm guns are happy shooting the same ammo.
 
I have cast, loaded and fired thousands of bullets in a wide range of calibers. I load cast for the 9mm in significant volumes. Getting leading free performance in the 9mm was more difficult for me than for any other caliber. I found casting for 45 ACPs pretty easy.

I urge you to consider casting for the 45 first. After you get the 45 working to your satisfaction, then try the 9mm.

The first 9MM load I worked up was for a Glock 19. With the 9mm the biggest challenge seems to be getting bullets that are big enough (I had to go to 0.359") that do not get swaged down too much by the brass (I now use a custom expander plug) and still having ammo that will plunk. With the above, my powder coated Lee 120 TC bullets cast from range scrap worked great even loaded to full power.

My son then "built" some "Glock style" 9mm guns from parts / kits. With each new gun, I found that I needed to open up the throat a little (I made a reamer) to get my existing ammo to plunk. But at least this way, all of our 9mm guns are happy shooting the same ammo.
I believe it has everything to do with pressure. 38 and 45 are easy. 9mm and 357 are more difficult due to higher pressure. I'm trying to figure out rifle without gas checks.
 
I believe it has everything to do with pressure. 38 and 45 are easy. 9mm and 357 are more difficult due to higher pressure. I'm trying to figure out rifle without gas checks.

I have only done non-checked rifle with slower loads that are in magnum handgun speeds. When I want a rifle round to be all it can be, I have used checks. I may experiment with pushing a coated plain base 350 legend bullet as hard as I can before it starts losing accuracy.
 
I have only done non-checked rifle with slower loads that are in magnum handgun speeds. When I want a rifle round to be all it can be, I have used checks. I may experiment with pushing a coated plain base 350 legend bullet as hard as I can before it starts losing accuracy.
My initial tests with 4227 that I had shooting 1 ish moa with gas checked 150s fell flat on its face with my new 165 noe plain base. I have a box of 4198 loaded starting at start and working up I need to jerk the trigger on to see where I'm at.
 
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