Lead casting question

[AJC1]

Casting & loading for the 9mm Luger seems no different then other cartridges, to me. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/taurus-g3c-9mm-luger.317/

Are the newer, Glock Gen 5 Marksman Barrels better, shooting cast lead???

One could say if you have a good process and good mix they are all the same. I believe higher pressure cartridges show you how things need to be improved if your process isn't up to task... I don't believe my mix is dialed correctly for rifle and ima fight it till it is. One could just buy Lyman #2 and use gas checks but where is the adventure in that.

 

[Y-T71]

I don't think that 9mm is not, nor should be any different than casting any other caliber but there does seem to be a higher rate of people who have some trouble with that caliber.

I think it has to do with the huge variety in barrel dimensions.

I've personally slugged my 9mm barrels with one coming in at .354" and another at .360" with a couple different ones in between.

As is often said when it comes to casting and cast bullets; fit is king.

 

[blue32]

1. You absolutely can. I shoot nothing but standard lubed and powder coated lead through factory barreled Glocks. Do yourself a favor and ignore everyone who says you can't.
2. Hardcast is a marketing term. I run nothing harder than 10bhn in Glock 17, 22, and 30. The only time I saw leading in a factory Glock barrel was when I used "hardcast."

 

[GooseGestapo]

Under sized bullets lead! Irregardless of rifling type. Or alloy.
I’m running Lee 93gr RN, powder coated over 12.8gr of #2400 in my .30Carbines, and 6.7gr of Acc#7 in the .30 Super Carry.
.311” in the .30Carb and .314” in the .30SC.
No leading whatsoever.

My 1943 Saginaw S.G. shoots this load better than anything else, including 110gr Sierra’s. Go figure!
Best thing about this load is the Lee 6-cavity mold “rains” good bullets.

 

[Bcwitt]

A bit off topic, but i got a Tacsol 22lr conversion for my G17. Havent loaded 9mm since. Its nice to have loaded ammo for the price of a primer. Also, it saves lead for the 45. 45acp is a much better cast bullet cartridge then 9mm will ever be.

 

[P Flados]

IMO, the 9mm is more challenging for cast because it combines a bunch of factors.

• It is a high pressure round (35,000 psi SAAMI rating).
• Guns frequently will not operate reliably at pressures much under the SAAMI rating.
• Barrel groove diameters vary significantly. Many are well above 0.356"
• Chambers frequently have inadequate throats for cast bullets (preventing bullets that are big enough from plunking)
• Actual chamber diameters are sometimes too small (preventing bullets that are big enough from plunking)
• Sizing dies are set up for jacket bullets and squeeze the brass down more than desired for cast. These dies are typically set up to give a really tight fit (to prevent set back) with the thinnest wall brass in circulation (there are big variations in this parameter) with the smallest available jacket bullets. These dies also have expander plugs that are on the small side (for the same reason as small sizer die ID) and is frequently too short. With much 9mm brass being thick wall and stiff, the dies lead to swaging down of cast bullets. When a person "fixes" his 9mm leading problems with harder lead (a relatively common thing), it is usually an indication of excessive bullet swaging by the brass when softer lead is used.

 

[stormshrike]

IMO, the 9mm is more challenging for cast because it combines a bunch of factors.

• ...
• Sizing dies are set up for jacket bullets and squeeze the brass down more than desired for cast. These dies are typically set up to give a really tight fit (to prevent set back) with the thinnest wall brass in circulation (there are big variations in this parameter) with the smallest available jacket bullets. These dies also have expander plugs that are on the small side (for the same reason as small sizer die ID) and is frequently too short. With much 9mm brass being thick wall and stiff, the dies lead to swaging down of cast bullets. When a person "fixes" his 9mm leading problems with harder lead (a relatively common thing), it is usually an indication of excessive bullet swaging by the brass when softer lead is used.

I am just getting started in my casting journey, but I have already seen softer lead (not pure but maybe 1% antimony) get swagged down by 45ACP brass, and I have also harder (over 2% antimony) 40S&W cast bullets get swagged down as well. Ironically, my cast 9mm using the same lead as the 40s did NOT get swagged down. Could be that the 40s hadn't had enough time to harden after I powder coated them; not sure yet. I use NOE expanders, but I am going to need harder lead or bigger diameter expanders for 45ACP at least. I'm leaning toward bigger expanders. I may also experiment with water quenching as part of the powder coating process for the higher antimony lead. In any case, I think it's a darn good idea to seat a couple of dummy rounds and then pull them to make sure the bullets' diameter is what I want when I pull the trigger.

 

[243winxb]

bigger diameter expanders

The results from the expander will be different between brands of brass.

 

[stormshrike]

The results from the expander will be different between brands of brass.

Gotcha, thank you.

Another variable to consider. Yay.

 

[AJC1]

I am just getting started in my casting journey, but I have already seen softer lead (not pure but maybe 1% antimony) get swagged down by 45ACP brass, and I have also harder (over 2% antimony) 40S&W cast bullets get swagged down as well. Ironically, my cast 9mm using the same lead as the 40s did NOT get swagged down. Could be that the 40s hadn't had enough time to harden after I powder coated them; not sure yet. I use NOE expanders, but I am going to need harder lead or bigger diameter expanders for 45ACP at least. I'm leaning toward bigger expanders. I may also experiment with water quenching as part of the powder coating process for the higher antimony lead. In any case, I think it's a darn good idea to seat a couple of dummy rounds and then pull them to make sure the bullets' diameter is what I want when I pull the trigger.

I go from oven to bucket. And it works well. The sizing die works against your harness so it's not a perfect answer. Post size heat treatment is an option but I've not had a reason to go that far.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I drop from the mold into a bucket of water. I also drop from the powder coating oven into a bucket of water.
I had an issue with leading before. I then changed two things at once... Started water quenching after powder coating and switched from a 0.356" die to a 0.357" sizing die. Leading went away, so I'm going to keep doing both.

Also, my cast bullets typically set on the shelf for more than a month or two before I load them. I try to cast and coat more than enough for the year in the spring, and let them sit while I finish up last year's bullets. I've read that over time, the lead hardness changes and settles. By the time I load them, they should have normalized.

 

[Y-T71]

I drop from the mold into a bucket of water. I also drop from the powder coating oven into a bucket of water.
I had an issue with leading before. I then changed two things at once... Started water quenching after powder coating and switched from a 0.356" die to a 0.357" sizing die. Leading went away, so I'm going to keep doing both.

Also, my cast bullets typically set on the shelf for more than a month or two before I load them. I try to cast and coat more than enough for the year in the spring, and let them sit while I finish up last year's bullets. I've read that over time, the lead hardness changes and settles. By the time I load them, they should have normalized.

I do the same, although, probably for different reasons.

I don't trust myself to NOT grab a handful of bullets to inspect before they've cooled down.

Everything I cast and everything I powder coat goes right into a bucket of water.

I don't care about hardness (because at the velocities I shoot at) The PC covers up any "deficiencies".

Like most people say, and I believe from 1st hand knowledge; "bullet fit is king".

In 15+ years of casting AND powder coating, it doesn't matter how hard the bullet is, it matters if it fits my bore..

I have used super soft (almost pure lead) and super hard (wheelwheights with, probably some mono or linotype mixed in) and, if the bullet fits my bore, I haven't had any trouble.

YMMV

 

[jmorris]

Sizing dies are set up for jacket bullets and squeeze the brass down more than desired for cast.

Being a tapered case you control how much the case is “squeezed down” by the depth you thread it in.

I lower mine until a sized case fits the case gauge and stop. If your reloading processes are harming cast bullets, they could likely ruin other types as well. Like these (ruined) plated bullets that were swaged during the loading process.

 

[jmorris]

Coating can be tested a number of ways but if you capture a fired one, that will tell you want you need to know. Both powder coat and Hi-tek hold up though.

I don’t have water around molten lead either. This is the method I use most.

 

[P Flados]

Being a tapered case you control how much the case is “squeezed down” by the depth you thread it in.
View attachment 1090194[/QUOTE
.

I took advantage of the taper as much as I could. However, if you back off too much, you run the risk of leaving a "bulge" just below the sized portion of the brass. Since I load a good bit of range pickup brass, I had to play around a good bit to make sure that I was getting the case sized far enough down. This still left the brass in need of a custom "oversized" expander plug to avoid swaging my cast bullets.