robhof
Member
Lead only emits vapor when heated WELL above casting temp, a friend got lead poisoning from casting sinkers with a deep fat fryer full of lead that was heated til it glowed, he also ate and drank while casting, but did cast outdoors.
Lead poisoning
- Thread starter missuramoss
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shadowmanlc
Member
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- Jul 28, 2009
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You owe me some screen cleaner you rascal you!!!
Floppy_D
Member In Memoriam
I get annual flight physicals, and I ask about lead content. It's never been an issue, and I cast and load all the time. My flight doc told me that lead absorbs slowly, so it takes something like paint dust (that you are around every day) rather than touching the lead a couple times a month. I mentioned my casting and reloading to him, and he asked if I wore gloves. I said yes, and he told me it was a non-issue; just to make sure I kept wearing gloves and kept my hands clean.
Last edited:
Melting Point: 600.61 K (327.46°C or 621.43°F)
Boiling Point: 2022 K (1749°C or 3180°F)
Boiling Point: 2022 K (1749°C or 3180°F)
Black Toe Knives
Member
Well. I was kinda responsible for it. I gave am a injection of it at 30 yards.
Wildfire
Member
900 Degrees..
Hey there :
My casting Book says lead at 900 Degrees becomes very toxic.
Below that at normal temps it is not... My Magma master caster runs at 700 degrees and that is where the bullets come out looking their best.
200 grain Swc, .45 cal run about 650 to just over 700 per hour at 700 degrees and stay consistent. Any faster and they get fuzzy. Any slower and they get too shinny. The smaller the bullet the faster you can run them..
But we never increase temp to gain speed.
If we slow down the pot will climb to 725 or 730 . At that point add lead and get going.. To cast at over that temp turns out crap bullets . So stay in that temp range and there should be no issues with any fumes. Of course you need venting.. It would be stupid to shut the door in a room and do this.
I knew one guy years ago that had a high lead count in his blood. He was a caster and cast day and night . He added more venting and started to handle the lead in a smarter fashion and the lead count went down. He is fine.
I have 2 lead BBs from a shot gun in by back side from years ago. The doctor said leave them there . We did. he said no chance of lead poison from it as they would heal over very fast and go no where. Been there for many years now. I am fine too. Yep , to answer before it gets asked. the man that shot me did it knowing he did it. He killed himself 4 months later . 3 shots in the head with a .32 revolver. He got real lead poison and actually died from it.
Hey there :
My casting Book says lead at 900 Degrees becomes very toxic.
Below that at normal temps it is not... My Magma master caster runs at 700 degrees and that is where the bullets come out looking their best.
200 grain Swc, .45 cal run about 650 to just over 700 per hour at 700 degrees and stay consistent. Any faster and they get fuzzy. Any slower and they get too shinny. The smaller the bullet the faster you can run them..
But we never increase temp to gain speed.
If we slow down the pot will climb to 725 or 730 . At that point add lead and get going.. To cast at over that temp turns out crap bullets . So stay in that temp range and there should be no issues with any fumes. Of course you need venting.. It would be stupid to shut the door in a room and do this.
I knew one guy years ago that had a high lead count in his blood. He was a caster and cast day and night . He added more venting and started to handle the lead in a smarter fashion and the lead count went down. He is fine.
I have 2 lead BBs from a shot gun in by back side from years ago. The doctor said leave them there . We did. he said no chance of lead poison from it as they would heal over very fast and go no where. Been there for many years now. I am fine too. Yep , to answer before it gets asked. the man that shot me did it knowing he did it. He killed himself 4 months later . 3 shots in the head with a .32 revolver. He got real lead poison and actually died from it.
The simple answer is that if you shoot in a properly ventilated range and follow the well-accepted hygiene procedures then there is no danger.
If the range is not properly ventilated or you eat/smoke/drink/etc. while shooting or before washing up or don't wash up properly then your levels will go up. If you do any of those things long enough then they can eventually reach dangerous levels although that usually takes some doing.
None of those facts are contested.
As far as your study involving trained technicians and calibrated instruments and precisely quantified results, I like the general idea. However, I'm curious as to how you believe it would be possible to set up a test involving poisoning people under carefully controlled conditions to attain various blood lead levels using different types of inadvisable behavior and/or in improperly designed/maintained facilities.
Obviously such a test is not possible. What we are then reduced to is finding people with lead poisoning and trying to (in retrospect) precisely determine their level and type of exposure (likely in conjunction with inadvisable behavior) and drawing conclusions. Again, while that provides some generally useful information, getting precise results based on a carefully controlled and monitored statistically significant sample size is going to be just about impossible.
Getting precise data on poisoning and its effects is quite difficult for the reasons described above. That doesn't mean that poisons are safe, in fact it's because precisely because they're dangerous that it's so difficult to get good data. It's hard to do studies that involve poisoning people in order to get carefully controlled results.
I believe it's possible because it's been done. Many times. And it can be done without exposing anyone to hazardous conditions - 'poisoning' them, as you suggest would be necessary.
Human body ead absorption rates are well known and documented. They don't need to be retested and verified. Exposure times can be specified. Concentrations can be measured; it's not clear that's been done with any precision, but even if it has, I see no attempt at putting these data together and coming up with real scientific conclusions on the dangers to shooters from lead exposure. It's all hyperbole: 'very toxic', 'dangerous levels', etc. etc.
What's 'dangerous'? 15 minutes of shooting? 20 years of shooting, casting, cleaning a range daily?
It's true there are many variables that can influence results, but the scientific method has know how to account for that for generations. This can be done; it's NOT impossible.
Human body ead absorption rates are well known and documented. They don't need to be retested and verified. Exposure times can be specified. Concentrations can be measured; it's not clear that's been done with any precision, but even if it has, I see no attempt at putting these data together and coming up with real scientific conclusions on the dangers to shooters from lead exposure. It's all hyperbole: 'very toxic', 'dangerous levels', etc. etc.
What's 'dangerous'? 15 minutes of shooting? 20 years of shooting, casting, cleaning a range daily?
It's true there are many variables that can influence results, but the scientific method has know how to account for that for generations. This can be done; it's NOT impossible.
mykeal,
I've measured the lead concentration on firing ranges. In instances where the ventilation system wasn't functioning properly measurements in one case were 3 times the PEL. Employee blood lead levels exceeded the OSHA action limit and the range was closed until the ventilation system problem could be sorted out. Employee stay times on the range were limited to allow for their BLLs to drop more quickly.
If you check the OSHA and NIOSH websites you'll find a webpages on shooter exposure to lead and instances of over exposure. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/blog/nsb051809_firingrange.html
The National Shooting Sports Foundation has an agreement in place since 2003 with OSHA on this. http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/alliances/nasr_saami/nasr_saami.html
Look at the firing range organization website as well. rangeinfo has some good information on this also.http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/facility_mngmnt/environment/Lead-OSHA.pdf
There's plenty of other information if you google "indoor firing range lead exposure".
The bottom line is that the firing range community has seen elevated BLLs and airborne lead levels that affect range employees, instructors and serious shooters that practice frequently. I've personally sampled two ranges and the employees finding elevated BLLs due to elevated airborne lead levels. Ranges with adequate ventilation don't experience airborne lead levels exceeding OSHA/NIOSH/ACGIH exposure limits and their employees don't experience high BLLs (unless they don't follow the very basic hygiene practice of washing after going out on the range).
Lead doesn't just jump into the air. Exposure to it can be controlled and it can be handled safely. You just have to take it seriously enough to follow the simple rules of adequate ventilation and washing up before taking anything by mount.
I've measured the lead concentration on firing ranges. In instances where the ventilation system wasn't functioning properly measurements in one case were 3 times the PEL. Employee blood lead levels exceeded the OSHA action limit and the range was closed until the ventilation system problem could be sorted out. Employee stay times on the range were limited to allow for their BLLs to drop more quickly.
If you check the OSHA and NIOSH websites you'll find a webpages on shooter exposure to lead and instances of over exposure. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/blog/nsb051809_firingrange.html
The National Shooting Sports Foundation has an agreement in place since 2003 with OSHA on this. http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/alliances/nasr_saami/nasr_saami.html
Look at the firing range organization website as well. rangeinfo has some good information on this also.http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/facility_mngmnt/environment/Lead-OSHA.pdf
There's plenty of other information if you google "indoor firing range lead exposure".
The bottom line is that the firing range community has seen elevated BLLs and airborne lead levels that affect range employees, instructors and serious shooters that practice frequently. I've personally sampled two ranges and the employees finding elevated BLLs due to elevated airborne lead levels. Ranges with adequate ventilation don't experience airborne lead levels exceeding OSHA/NIOSH/ACGIH exposure limits and their employees don't experience high BLLs (unless they don't follow the very basic hygiene practice of washing after going out on the range).
Lead doesn't just jump into the air. Exposure to it can be controlled and it can be handled safely. You just have to take it seriously enough to follow the simple rules of adequate ventilation and washing up before taking anything by mount.
Ryder
Member
There's a big sticky thread in THR handloading forum about lead exposure which contains test data.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307170
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307170
MICHAEL T
Member
Guess all our parents should have die before we were born and those of us that were around all this lead as kids should be dead now More PC save the world junk like that summit going on now. All those jets and Limos dirtying the air so the lairs can control more of our lives and money They sure don't practice what they preach
Wildfire
Member
That a good one.
Hey "
I like this guy...
Ya , my parents are still alive too. I likely chewed on my crib painted with lead based paint too.
I remember I had a frog. Just a little frog. Maybe 1/2" tall. It was made of lead.
I also remember having it in my mouth on more then one time. I carried lead pellets for my pellet gun in my mouth to wet them for my next shot.
I also would secure my sinkers with my teeth.
Oh well , we all got to go somehow. I will let ya all know when I die if that is what killed me. :banghead:
Hey "
I like this guy...
Ya , my parents are still alive too. I likely chewed on my crib painted with lead based paint too.
I remember I had a frog. Just a little frog. Maybe 1/2" tall. It was made of lead.
I also remember having it in my mouth on more then one time. I carried lead pellets for my pellet gun in my mouth to wet them for my next shot.
I also would secure my sinkers with my teeth.
Oh well , we all got to go somehow. I will let ya all know when I die if that is what killed me. :banghead:
hildo
Member
If you want to check if you have a bad case of lead poisoning, check your gums.
Thought gums would turn blue but actually, after googling, it seemes they will just show a blue line.
Mine are fine upto now
See:
http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=000098100
Hildo
Thought gums would turn blue but actually, after googling, it seemes they will just show a blue line.
Mine are fine upto now
See:
http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=000098100
Hildo
Blood lead levels are the only way to know whether you have elevated lead levels (that, or you're so bad off that you're showing acute symptoms of lead poisoning).
If you're concerned have a $30 BLL with ZPP run next time you go for a checkup.
If you're concerned have a $30 BLL with ZPP run next time you go for a checkup.
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