Learn Krav Maga vs. a CCW permit?

[sidheshooter]

Bruce Lee owned several firearms and so does Chuck Norris. Trust me, if those guys need firearms after their extensive training, you do too.

^^^Rorion Gracie (head of the Gracie jiu-jitsu family style, founder of the UFC) has stated in print that his favorite pistol is his Sig P220.

That said, noted trainer Michael Janich once stated that the irony of having the skill to effectively create space to access your weapon under surprise attack is the possibility of no longer needing the weapon once you've applied the skill.

I vote "all of the above, plus the kitchen sink", and I've cast that vote with both my time and wallet.

 

[psyfly]

The basic message from my instructor was:

Do sufficient damage to the assailant to stop the threat as rapidly and violently as possible and then...

run away.

Best,

Will

 

[Fred Fuller]

I'm one of those who thinks the two are not mutually exclusive. In fact I don't think either of the options suggested set the bounds for the field of possibilities - there's more options out there to be explored.

One of the most valuable self defense options I've had experience training with is Southnarc's MUC (Managing Unknown Contacts). Like sharks, many would-be assailants circle before they bite. Developing situational awareness is important, but how do you handle a developing situation with an approaching stranger who seems inordinately focused on you? MUC offers one set of approaches to that situation, which may preclude more active defense - or tilt the balance in your favor if in fact it comes to a more active defense.

Take a look at http://www.safeism.com/pdfs/SNContacts.pdf for some older material regarding MUC... see http://shivworks.com/ for more of Craig's material if interested.

 

[torreyintahoe]

Just read a great book called facing violence by Rory Miller. It goes into different types of violence and the psychology and means of dealing with each type. Social violence is very different than asocial violence. Resource predators are different than process predators. The main idea of the book is that absence is better than running. Running is better than de-escalating. De-escalating is better than fighting. Fighting is better than dying.

 

[Rexster]

A gunfight is a fight, first and foremost, that happens to involve at least one gun. Knowing how a shoot, without knowing how to fight, is not a plan for success. Attacks do not generally start with an announcement from across a street!

Even if one manages to draw and fire, hitting an attacker before he reaches contact distance, it might take a while before "hydraulic" failure takes effect. A defender may have to get physical to control the bad guy after he is hit, and one may have to create enough distance to reload, pull another weapon, or execute some other Plan B.

 

[ROGER4314]

I had plenty of violence in the first half of my life and met the challenge pretty well. Now, I'm old, my joints hurt a lot and I can't run. My CHL is the only option that I have unless I'm willing to become a victim. I carry every day and being retired, that means all day armed and prepared.

I just lost a friend to street violence. He had a Rolex watch and two thugs jumped him to steal the watch, beat him badly and put him in the hospital. He was released later and went home to heal. He started to feel bad so he re-entered the hospital where he died. He was 35 years old! He sold guns for years at the local gun shows. Why the heck wasn't he armed?

I urge you to prepare in what ever way that you choose. Do it now and don't delay as the thugs are waiting for you outside.

Flash

 

[TAKtical]

Criminals rarely work alone so I wouldnt bet on krav maga saving your butt against multiple attackers possibly armed and or high on god knows what.

 

[Rexster]

There are firearms instructors that integrate some force-on-force training into their classes. This is one-stop shopping!

Search for such terms as: ECQC, FoF, GOTX, OODA, snubtraining.com....

One reason I favor revolvers with fairly small, rubberized grips, is because I recognize that fights are often within touching distance. I want to be able to hang onto my guns! Some say an opponent can grab my cylinder, preventing me from firing. Well, Michael deBethancourt showed me a revolver-specific counter-move for that!

If nothing else, learn to not just stand still while drawing and shooting. Movement forces your opponent to re-orient his attack, if he wishes to continue. Multiple opponents? Try to maneuver so as
to line them up with each other. Movement is almost always a good idea, though moving backwards is rarely advisable.

 

[JShirley]

Training to use a firearm in an offensive or defensive fashion is, by definition, a martial art.

I will just add that true self defense must include ways to keep yourself safe, not just "fighting". Any good unarmed martial art will teach you how to land without injury. If it doesn't teach this, study one that does.

John

 

[sidheshooter]

Training to use a firearm in an offensive or defensive fashion is, by definition, a martial art.

^^^True. "Arts dedicated to Mars", the God of war.

 

[Calhoun]

I practice Krav Maga and CCW daily, so I may have a little insight here.

Well, the down side to martial arts is that it generally takes much more time and effort to reach effective competence than it does to become a competent shooter.

Criminals rarely work alone so I wouldnt bet on krav maga saving your butt against multiple attackers possibly armed and or high on god knows what.

Krav is specifically designed be quick and easy to learn. You become proficient quickly, especially in regards to traditional martial arts. It also teaches how to deal with multiple threats.

Is Krav the solution to every problem? Of course not, but neither is a handgun. You gonna shoot your drunk friend that's getting a little rowdy? Ever heard of the Tueller Drill? Long and the short is that you need to have some hand to hand skills.

 

[TAKtical]

I agree that you need to know how to defend yourself without a weapon. Just saying krav maga wont help you in every situation. Neither will a pistol.

 

[gp911]

Krav Maga is a great choice, but no need to forgo arming yourself.

 

[Erik M]

both or concealed carry. you wont be facing unarmed ninjas if you are ever mugged.

 

[Ignition Override]

Thanks very much for all of this info, and I've been considering both. One problem is to that my days off are very irregular, out of town very often.

Maybe an off-duty police officer or Federal agent, possibly ex Special Forces guy offers private classes which could parallel or augment phases of Krav?

Actively reading about smaller handguns and where they are concealed for a hot climate.

 

[Al Thompson]

IO, around here the pickings are mighty slim for MA from a reputable instructor. You may have the same issues.

 

[WNTFW]

At the very least you can learn to use a gun with weapon retention in mind. The other thing is to be able to fire at very close ranges. These are two things I think many casual ccw holders aren't very clued in on. Many people get a gun & carry permit then think they are covered.

 

[RatDrall]

Thanks very much for all of this info, and I've been considering both. One problem is to that my days off are very irregular, out of town very often.

Maybe an off-duty police officer or Federal agent, possibly ex Special Forces guy offers private classes which could parallel or augment phases of Krav?

There are schools that have seminars all over the country. You can learn a lot from a multi day training session.

http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/classschedule.aspx

 

[4v50 Gary]

Self defense is a combination of things.

Mindset, avoidance, weaponless defense and armed defense (with an array of weapons). Learn as much as you can as often as you can. Learning never stops either.

 

[coondogger]

The Krav Maga system includes combat pistol training but it is a very
different system than what is taught in CCW classes. There is an emphasis on disarms in the event your pistol is grabbed. Which, by the way, is the reason they don't carry a round in the chamber because it gives you an extra moment to get the weapon back. More than that I cannot say for fear of this thread deteriorating into
a condition 1 vs condition 3 debate. Suffice to say, take one or the
other. Both involve pistol training.

 

[gfanikf]

Bruce Lee owned several firearms and so does Chuck Norris. Trust me, if those guys need firearms after their extensive training, you do too.

Cool, I never knew about Bruce, what did he own?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kendahl]

No martial art is going to enable you to beat someone who is 6 inches taller, 100 lbs heavier and can bench press 200 lbs more than you. Learn the gun for sure and a martial art if you have time. The martial art is good exercise, more fun than machines in a gym, and might enable you to handle a situation without resorting to your gun.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

I just grew a Chuck Norris beard. I figure I'm all set.

Ah, but the real Chuck Norris didn't grow a beard. It merely appeared when he was ready for it.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

I'm very much in the "why not do both?" camp. Obviously in non-permissive environments and countries it's pretty much your only choice.
"Why not learn martial arts instead?" is often the refrain of anti-gunners who don't want us going armed.
Multiple and/or more skilled attackers, knife or gun wielding attackers would pretty much neutralize even a highly skilled and practiced martial artist.
I remember a horrible trailside murder of a woman in which "gun alternatives" - martial arts and a dog didn't help a whit - against a single attacker who was a fair amount older and less physically fit - he was simply stronger, more cunning and ruthless.

 

[10mm Mike]

No martial art is going to enable you to beat someone who is 6 inches taller, 100 lbs heavier and can bench press 200 lbs more than you.

100% false.

Back in college I used to train with someone who went on to have a brief stint in the UFC. I was ~80lbs heavier than him with the strength to match and he regularly mopped the floor with me, and I'm not exactly a pushover.

My advise: do both if you can afford it. If not, do whichever one you will be able to put the most time in.