Learned a new trick sizing 223/556 brass.

CoalCrackerAl

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
6,198
Location
Shamokin/Coal twp Pa.
I found a bunch of brass the other day at the range. 2 out of 4 got stuck in my small base die. So i stopped using the small base die. And sized them on my standard die. Then sized them on my small base die. They must have been fired from a generous sized chamber. Never had that happen before. And yes i used lube.
 
Easy brass? Depends on where you live.... Worth sizing twice, depends on if you're making concentric accurate loads or tin can fodder. I find better accuracy from turning brass 90 degrees and sizing once more. Most of the time I don't bother, but there are exceptions....just depends on what it's for.
 
@CoalCrackerAl - I’ll hand you yet another “I’m kinda doing this wrong to make it right” technique for your bag of tricks:

When small base sizing, it’s pretty common that the SB die necks are extremely tight also, which can create a problem when seating bullets, or even when mandrel expanding - bulging or even collapsing the shoulder. This can happen both when we anneal, because the neck is too tight and the shoulder is softened, but ALSO when we don’t anneal because the neck is too tight and the neck is hard (so the shoulder relatively softer), and when we try to push something into the neck, we bulge the shoulder. We solve the web expansion problem, but we create an undersized neck problem, which can propagate to a bulged shoulder problem…

So a reloader can set their small base die in the press, chase that with an undersized mandrel expander, hit the case again with a standard sizing die to tighten up any shoulder bulge which might have presented, then chase finally with the proper mandrel for their desired neck tension. It’s a lot of extra work, and a lot of extra work hardening of the necks, but it’s less scary than doing it the RIGHT way…

The RIGHT way is really to open the neck of the small base die to eliminate the potential to make a problem for yourself. Just the same as was mentioned above - when we small base size, we almost always push back the shoulder too far, which creates an unintended problem for ourselves by creating excessive headspace which yields excessive case body stretch, which can lead to case head separations. But reloaders small base size all the way the shellholder all of the time, pushing their shoulders WAY too far back, and making their necks WAY too small, so they punt and fix the secondary problems they created instead (in the case of excessive headspace, that “fix” is allowing the excessive headspace at least one firing before reverting to their standard die, until they need to SB again).

So it is much better to modify your SB die to either appropriate headspace, OR create a simple SB body die, then bump the shoulder and size the neck with your standard die. That’s what I did for my 6 creed SB die which I use to SB when changing brass from one barrel to the next - I cut away the neck and shoulder entirely from an RCBS small base die. Works like a charm.

Even better still - get a die made to match your chamber. But obviously much, much more expensive.

And to your original issue - hard small base sizing and stuck cases, cutting out the neck and shoulder of the SB die would likely solve this issue, OR, simply better lube. It’s 223, it’s not that difficult to size, and shouldn’t be getting stuck. If you’re sticking 223/5.56, you’re more likely under sizing the entire case, and/or not offering sufficient lube - so again, the trick you devised is in that category of “kinda doing the wrong things to make it right.”
 
The brass i was having an issue with was range pick ups. Normally i don't have an issue. I needed a small base die for my SW AR. Maybe i won't need it for my Bear creek one. I'll check and see if my loads for my mini will chamber. The mini i use the standard dies.
 
I shot the ones i loaded today. 2 wouldn't chamber. Maybe i didn't run them through the small base die. As far as the 1K 21 brass i found a trick to get the primers out. The flash holes are off center on them. I use a shell holder from a Lee app press. The holders have 2 ends that the brass can pass threw. But i use them on Lee O ring press. It lets the brass shift to where it can be decapped. For some reason. It wont work with app press.
l_100040881_1.jpg
 
The brass i was having an issue with was range pick ups.

The issue I mention really isn’t dependent upon the brass, but rather the sizing process and the nature of small base dies - every one of them I have ever seen are “small everything,” not just small base.

Brass has multiple dimensions which all must fit into the chamber - what we do WRONG when we small base size is wrapped in the fact we are ONLY focusing on the base diameter. So we squish the hell out of the cases and then the bolt closes - but we might have bumped the shoulder back 9thou, or have 12thou neck clearance… in other words, we messed up multiple other critical dimensions just to fix ONE dimension. But our bolts don’t tell us when we’re in the “-“, only when we’re “+”.

It’s really that issue of excessive headspace we often create with small base dies; I’m firmly convinced small base dies should all be body dies, which do no shoulder bump or neck sizing. The vast majority of us do NOT use SB dies for every loading, we just use them for one cycle, as needed, to correct problem batches. But then we throw a bunch of case stretch into that firing, and might take 5 or more firings off of the end of the brass life…

So ultimately, it really doesn’t matter why the brass is oversized at the base, just that it is, which prompts the use of a small base sizer, and then we create these other problems for ourselves which do a better job of hiding themselves.
 
Ok i sized some of what i shot today. With the small base die. Then took measurements. All matched sammi specs.:thumbup:

What does a mold of your chamber show for headspace and neck diameter?

SAAMI specs don’t mean much. Every 6 creed barrel I have had made has been cut with a “SAAMI spec reamer,” but none of the 5 reamers produced the same chambers.
 
My trick is to clean and polish the interior of the sizer to a mirror finish every 100 rounds or so. Redding has a tech article on the subject but I do it differently than what they suggest and it doesn’t change tolerances.
 
My trick is to clean and polish the interior of the sizer to a mirror finish every 100 rounds or so. Redding has a tech article on the subject but I do it differently than what they suggest and it doesn’t change tolerances.
I put some Mothers polish on a bore mop. And shine my dies up.
 
I've only ever used a standard (not small base) die for resizing my 223/5.56 brass (and I load for five rifles) and I have never had any problem across two Ruger Mini-14s, two ARs and a Savage Axis.
 
Back
Top