Learning about Double Rifles

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It also explains why all the dangerous game catridges are only avaliable in CRF single shot or repeater bolt rifles and double rifles.
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Actually there are quite a few available in non-CRF bolt action rifles, such as the Remmy. 700, older M-70s, and Wby. Mk. V just to name a few. Why anyone would choose one (to use in pursuit of dangerous game) over a action proven to be more reliable in extraction/ejection I haven't a clue.

Anyway, back to the original topic: I believe that a Browning BAR would serve you well, and help soak up some of that recoil. I would, however, consider a lighter cartridge like the .30-06Spd. or at the most the .300WM, if only for the ammunition savings. Most any magnum greater than .30cal. carries quite a premium and even for the handloader is a bit more costly (for powder, brass, and projectiles).

:)
 
Maverick, I do see your point about ammo costs. But its not too much more difference between the 3 in ammo costs. Using Hornady as a reference for just good ballparking estimates:

30-06 in 180gr SST Superformance is $37 for a box of 20
300 WM in 180gr SST Superformance is $44 for a box of 20
338 WM in 225gr SST Superformance is $49 for a box of 20

Now, I do realize that over the life of the rifle that it would cost more for the 338 than either the 30-06 or 300WM even if I reloaded myself. But considering how much I would shoot anyone of them, I personally don't think I'm going to shoot enough in my life to make that much of a difference. I'd get the gun sighted in and after that I'd shoot maybe a box or two of shells a year just to stay in practice and go hunting. Reloading would take that cost down some, but I could make up that investment over the life of the gun.

I like the 338 because its using a big, moderately fast bullet that packs a wallop out to 200yds and is relatively flat in trajectoy at that range. Its a bit more gun than I'd need, but it also doesn't overlap my 257 Roberts like the 30-06 or 300 WM would. I'm already to the point where I'll be learning how to do 200yd plus shooting with my 257 because its got the energy to get out to about 500yds for vamints and its got enough energy to be a great 300yds or closer deer rifle.
 
Fair enough. Carry on; and don't ignore the used market (big magnums are notorious for becoming safe queens).

:)
 
That is something I have noticed. Tons of 338 WM on gunbroker that are NIB at used gun prices and no one wants them.
 
Yep, save yourself a little cash.

BTW, stay away from the ones with the BOSS (unless it is the version without ports). IMO there is no place for a muzzle brake on a hunting rifle.

:)
 
BTW, stay away from the ones with the BOSS (unless it is the version without ports). IMO there is no place for a muzzle brake on a hunting rifle.
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I'm on the fence on that one. My dad's 358 didn't have bad recoil, but it did have terrible muzzle jump. He sent it out to get a muzzle break put on it. That put an end to recoil & muzzle jump, but the thing sounds like a cannon going off now and you can't stand anywhere near him except directly behind him or the muzzle flash gets you.

Apparently the original BOSS was good, but the muzzle break wasn't well received because the new BOSS CR has no break on it.
 
Expect quite a bit more recoil out of the .338WM, but using a well fitting stock, a good recoil pad, and non-lightweight model rifle will help (like the BAR Safari, not one of the lightweight models). A muzzle brake is an absolutely useless hunk-o-metal hanging off the end of a hunting rifle. You shouldn't have to double up on hearing protection to hunt. The non-ported one, I see nothing wrong with (and may help to tighten up your groups).

:)
 
The BAR Safari weighs 8.5lbs, has a 24" barrel and it comes with a recoil pad (which is pretty decent from Browning). My dad's 358 is a BLR and it weighs 6.5lbs with a 20" barrel. I personally prefer a gun that weighs 9lbs or more. Best shooting gun I've ever handled is my dads M1897 with a 30" barrel. Weighs something like 9.5lbs and has a perfect balance for me.
 
I saw from the SHOT Show there's a new, lightweight semi-auto out in .50 BMG, but I haven't seen any articles about anybody using it for big game hunting. It would certainly meet the African regulations about being .40 calibre or greater, though. :)
 
Add a decent optic to it (i'd go with something with moderate magnification, and durable) and you'll be right at your target weight.

:)
 
I wish Simmons still made the scope thats on my 257. Its a 3.6-12 magnification with an Adjustable Objective that makes range-finding somewhat easier and a sun shade. I've never had to use something above 7 on that scope.

Luepold however does make nearly the exact same thing:

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-...es/vx-ii-riflescopes/vx-ii-4-12x40mm-adj-obj/

So an 8.5lbs empty weight gun, plus the BOSS CR system, a pound for the scope, and some more oz for the ammo and it should should weigh about 10lbs fully loaded.
 
Well, after some good reading here and other places and a lot of thought, I'm thinking that my 257 Roberts isn't as undergunned for elk/moose/black bear as I thought it was. Looking through just what Nosler makes for 257 bullets, they have some nice bonded rounds that look fully capable of putting an elk down.

All I've ever thought of using my 257 was deer and varmits and I'd wrote it off for much anything else. How does a .257 bullet fair against elk/moose/black bear? I've also been finding out some states have minimum caliber sizes for elk.
 
I think the Bob is a little light for all of the above. I prefer something in the .30-06Spd. or above category for moose and .270Win./.280Rem. for blackies & elk.

:)
 
Well...everyone is saying you don't need the larger caliber for hunting in the US, perhaps you don't but at the same time there is no reason not to use them either. I have head the term "overkill" but I have yet to see anything "overdead", the faster you can put down your game animal the better. Problem with some of the mid calibers is they don't have the umph to make a killing quartering shot if needed. I have shot and competed with a number of dangerous game calibers including the .458, 375 H&H, 93X74R, 450 Alaskan, and .375/.338, none of them seemed all that punishing to me as far as recoil. My .375/.338 is in a Browning BAR Safari and with a KDF brake is a sweetheart to shoot. I know that with a 300 grain solid it will penetrate tail to chest on a big elk or moose, nice to have when the soft point you dropped in the boiler room doesn't convince the animal it is dead and a follow up shat can anchor it if you get penetration.
 
I see there's lots of posters here who have info about double rifles, but i'll bet have never owned one, or even handled one. At least that's the impression i'm getting by the inaccurate info they are posting.

Anyway, here's my Chapuis DR, chambered in 9.3x74R,

orig.jpg

They are the cheapest S&S DR that have excellent quality, and can be had for under $5K. Yes, you can spend more $$, but you won't get better accuracy, or better quality of materials. You will get a DR that has better fitting/polishing of internal parts, higher grade wood, and better engraveing.

A properly regulated DR will have no problem takeing big game at even 300 yards, you just have to practise at those ranges.

Anyway, if that's what you want, then nothing else will do, and yes i have numerous bolt guns too...

DM
 
That is what I like about my Tikka 412 in 9.3, it uses a wedge system so the owner can regulate for the average distance he (or she) feels is needed. These rifles are now available from Finn Classics.

I wouldn't hesitate to take a long shoot with my Tikka.

If you are interested in the Valmet or Chapius you can look at the catalogs here...

http://www.doublegunhq.com/
 
Thanks, but actually i have several Valmet 412's, with numerous bbl sets, including this NIB DR,

orig.jpg

orig.jpg

I'm of the opinion the steel in the Finnish made 412's is superior to the newer Itilian made 512's, so i have a good assortment of bbls. along with the complete guns...

DM

BTW, i have several of these too,

orig.jpg
 
For black bear any rifle good for white tails will work; for brown and big bears stick to larger calibers. I like the .338, have a Ruger that I dropped into a Kevlar stock and added a Timmy trigger; very accurate and recoil is sucked up by the Kevlar stock - dropped a very large Alaska/Yukon moose at over 200 yards no problem. Once, on a whim went deer stalking in Scotland with a double rifle (.270), no problem reaching out to just under 200 yards but the darn thing was way too heavy and just plain unnecessary - sold it when I returned. If you intend to hunt anywhere near mountains forget a double.
 
Ive thought about double rifles, but come to the conclusion that I'm happy with a lever action or a bolt action for what I'd do. Not to thread drift, but I am looking for a combo shotgun rifle, which is similar. Good luck with your search. 375 hh is what I'd get in a bolt, with a close second being 45-70 in a lever.
 
My .338 weighs 8.75lbs with Zeiss Diavari-C 3x9 scope and a sling. My double 270 was an over and under as was my 9.3x75 and I wasn't overwhelmed with either as a long range shotting iron. A side by 450/400 I once owned was definitely a close in weapon only bearable shooting standing up.

In fact I have used a 300 win mag to escort the base camp staff in the NWT when the bears started getting close and visible and I didn't feel under-gunned, but then again I didn't have to use it so I can't say for certain. I do know from watching those suckers I am more comfortable with more than two shots; if the bear is so close that the quick two shots of a double is needed you are in deep do do. The best advice I ever got from an experienced bush pilot is when shotting as something that can charge you (eg bull moose or bear) keep shooting!
 
Sorry for the delay, I've been in Vegas for the last 4 days:D

Maverick, thats what I was thinking. Its on the light side for those guys. It might do on lighter elk and lighter black bears, but anything near north of the border will require something bigger. And by bigger, it seems the consensus is 30-06 or 338WM. I have to agree with 451, I've heard of overkill but never heard of or seen overdead.
 
I feel robbed...been in KY for the past few. Either the '06 or .338WM would do pretty well, but for a magnum I like the .375H&H. It exudes authority...I just don't get the same feeling with the Winny (not that it is a bad cartridge).

:)
 
One thing to keep in mind about the 338 WM, as I'm sure you know but others might not, is that the parent case of the 338 WM is a 375 H&H Magnum.

Odd part about that is that the 257 Roberts is based off the 7x57 Mauser. The brass of both are extremely similar.
 
Sure is, though the Winny is blown out and trimmed to fit in a standard length action (without sacrificing much capacity). It just seems that the .375H&H has a bit more oomph behind it due to that large diameter round nose...though it (and the .338) is undoubtedly more than what is required for anything found in the lower-48 (with the possible exception of bison).

WRT case design, most cartridges are derived from the 7mmMauser, .30-06Spd., .375H&H, or .308Win....i'd say these four are parent cases for 50% or more of designs (but not total production, which is skewed by the prevalence of rimfires and intermediate cartidges). The '06 and .308Win. are both roughly based upon the Mauser, so in truth two basic cases has shaped the ammunition industry more than any others (and perhaps more than all others combined).

:)
 
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