Learning rifle with .357?

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Pizzapinochle

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I have never shot rifles outside of a little bolt action .22lr single shot.

I want to learn how to shoot longer range through a scope, but I want to do it spending as little $$ as possible because, well, I am cheap. Also, I don't know how much I will enjoy rifle shooting vs. handguns/shotguns, so I want to start without a big $$ commitment. If I like it, I will spend the $$ on something to last for a long time once I have an idea of what I am actually looking for.

I have an H&R 12 gauge that, through the barrel exchange program, I can get a .45 colt, .357 mag or .44 mag barrel for pretty cheap ($155). This is a lot cheaper than any of the rifles I have found outside of a Mosin 91/30, which, if I understand correctly is not the best gun for learning long range accuracy with.

For learning to shoot rifles out to 100-150 yards, will a .45/.357/.44 work?

If I learn on a .45/.357/.44 then try to transition to a bottle neck rifle round, am I going to have to re-learn a lot?

Shooting from a rifle, what will the recoil of a .45/.357/.44 be (relative to rifle rounds like the .223 or .243)?

Which would be better for my purposes, the .45 colt, .357 or the .44? Big difference or minor difference? (.357 is desirable b/c I have a revolver in that caliber, so sharing ammo would be nice if there is not a big difference)

I am not planning on hunting or anything like that, just like being able to hit the target a long ways away.

Many thanks for the help, brand new to rifles, so trying to get good advice to start.
 
Important Information, PLEASE READ before continuing.
Additional barrels may be added to firearms of our manufacture since 1987 only, with a serial number that begins with N, H or C. We do not install additional barrels on any other manufacture's firearms.
Additional barrels will be fitted to the proper frame if the frame passes a detailed inspection. This inspection is performed by the repairman at the time the frame is received
Rifle barrels may be added to firearms manufactured since 2000 and only to frames (SB-2) that originated as a rifle, if frame passes inspection.
Rifle frames (SB-2) newer than 2000 may be fitted with additional rifle, shotgun, and muzzleloader barrels, if frame passes inspection.
All shotgun frames (SB-1) 1987 and newer and rifle frames (SB-2) produced between 1987 and 1999 or 1999 and newer may be fitted with additional shotgun and muzzleloader barrels only, if frame passes inspection.
Muzzleloader frames can only be re-fitted with muzzleloader barrels only.
Rimfire frames (SS-1) can only be fitted with rimfire calibers.
10 gauge shotguns and the 12 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter with the heavy rifled barrel can only be fitted with other 10 gauge or 12 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter barrels only.
We do not sell additional barrels outright. All barrels must be factory fitted.
We do not sell barrel blanks or do custom calibers/barrel lengths/finishes/sights.
Additional barrels are available as additional barrels only. We will not exchange barrels for existing barrels on shotguns and rifles, as it will change the model.
In order to obtain an additional barrel(s), the stock, forend and frame (receiver) must be sent to us so that they may be properly hand-fitted to the barrel, to be sure they are correctly head-spaced and proof-tested.
Hammer Spurs are Sold Separately from Barrel


see also:http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/54497-Changes-in-Handi-Rifle-barrel-program
 
.223 barrel can only be fitted on an SB2 frame. The shotgun frames (SB1) like mine will not accept the rifle barrels.

I think my ideal gun would be a .223 Handi Rifle, but those are $300+ new and not many used around.
 
The fundamentals are the same. I don't know that it would be as enjoyable, but you can definitely learn rifle shooting with a .357 mag, or even the others you mentioned.
 
I don't see what would be wrong learning with a .357. 150 isn't that far to have to worry much about trajectory.
 
My .44 mag handi rifle doesnt shoot as well as, say, my Tikka T-3 .308, but it shoots well enough to practice with. And kill deer.

I don't shoot it past 100 yards, but it keeps five shots under 2" off the bench with a fixed 4x Weaver Classic scope. That is with jacketed bullets hand-loaded, not cheap factory ammo.

The Tikka, otoh, shoots 3/4-1" groups with cheap factory ammo......
 
The best way to practice long range shooting on a budget is to shoot .22LR at 100 yards. .22LR at 100 yards is kind of like shooting a .308 Win at 1,000 yards. There are many excellent long range competitors who spend a lot of time shooting .22LR matches. The .22LR will make you focus on follow through since the barrel time is longer and it will teach you a lot about wind drift.
 
Yep, at those distances (they're not long range by rifle definition) you're much better off with a .22 and time spent learning the fundamentals.
 
I know you want to go at it as cheaply as possible, but if it was me, I would seriously consider getting a .223 rifle of some sort. The round is cheap, flat shooting, and low recoil. I think CDNN was clearing out EAA single shots in that caliber recently for under $200. If you can stand to open the wallet a little wider, a .223 bolt gun would be a good option, and if you didn't like it, it shouldn't be too hard to sell. It took me a long time to learn that always going cheap on stuff didn't always get me the best value, so I know where you're coming from.

Given your choices, the .357 is the only option that really makes sense, if you don't reload, .44 and .45 colt are going to be much more costly to shoot, and the .44 will have quite a bit more recoil.
 
Thanks for the replies. I will definitely keep shooting .22, but one thing i don't do real well with recoil. The .22 recoil is so light I am used to it, so i want something with enough recoil to be noticeably more than the 22.
 
My advice:

Get a beater SKS or a single-shot .223 and see what you think. Maybe an old, well-used .243 might be a good choice, too.

They all should shoot somewhat flatter for farther than the pistol caliber long guns you are considering. Probably will be cheaper too.

That way, you can see how you feel about center fire without a whole lot of recoil or cash outlay. Expect somewhat more noise, though... :)

Honorable mention to the .30-30. In years past this would be the logical next step for you, but the price (new or used) is up nowadays and it won't shoot quite as flat. Still a pretty good choice though, and well worth considering.


A PCC (revolver or semi caliber) is a cool thing to have, and you might get one eventually either way. Can pair with your handgun and whatnot, which people always tout but isn't really as big a deal as it seems on paper. But if you're just wanting to see, I would try one of my other suggestions first. They'll be cheaper to buy and easier to find. On paper the .357 PCC is pretty cheap to feed, but does not shoot as flat as you seem to want - especially with .38 special.

[EDIT: SKS will be tough to scope. That may be a deal breaker for you.]
 
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I wouldn't worry about recoil. You seem to be caught up on that. Learn to shoot first. If you can shoot tiny groups with a .22 you're not going to forget everything you've learned because you stepped up to a .223. You'll probably barely notice.
 
OP....you can shoot a .223 rifle. Back in the '70s, I bought a custom .223 barrel for my T/C Contender since Thompson wasn't making them yet. I'm a great big 5'4" tall. If I can shoot a .223 in a handgun, you can certainly shoot it in a much heavier rifle. I'm completely confident you can.
 
If you learn how to effectively shoot something in the class of an economical lever-action rossi 92 with a good peep sight out to 200 yards, you'll learn everything you need to know about practical riflemanship, without breaking the bank or your shoulder.
 
357 does well out to 200 yards as a paper puncher. No, you don't get groups as tiny as a good bolt gun in 223 or 308, but you can get some good practice.

I bought my first Handi in 30-30, then sent in in and got 357 and 410 bore barrels fitted. $65 each back then. They came with good open sights and ejectors instead of extractors.

Recently I bought the classic carbine in .45 Colt, a real honey of a gun, but not for extended ranges.

My buddy and I used to try to out-shoot each other from the bench at 200 yards with our 357s. He had a Rossi lever gun. It was a blast, pun intended.

45 Colt and 44 mag have too much recoil in light rifles for extended training. You can load them light, but then the trajectory drops off.

I think a 357 barrel would do nicely without spending much. Someday you can buy something nicer, but you'll always enjoy having a 357 long gun, they a real fun plinkers.
 
I'd spend the money and get a Savage Axis. A shop near me always has them priced at about $280. For $10 more they come with a pretty decent scope, a Bushnell I believe. Savage makes some pretty accurate rifles for a decent price. Get one in .223. It'll give you more recoil than .22lr but it shouldn't overwhelm anyone that's new to rifles. Plus now that the "shortage" is calming down you can find .223 again at reasonable prices to practice with, maybe even cheaper than .357mag ammo.
 
Bud's gun shop online has a brand new Rossi single shot rifle in .223/5.56mm for only $237 including shipping.
That's not much more than that barrel you were thinking about buying.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_385/products_id/61497

The have an H&R in .223/5.56mm for $285 shipped
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...i+Grip+Break+Open+223+Remington5.56+NATO+24"+

For only $313 you can get a H&R in .223 with a bull barrel and laminated stock:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...&R+Ultra+Varmint+Rifle+.223+24"+Bull+Laminate

There are others if you look around.
 
.22 or .223

Yep, at those distances (they're not long range by rifle definition) you're much better off with a .22 and time spent learning the fundamentals
Click to expand...
+1.
You are not going to learn anything from a CF cartridge that you cannot learn as well with what you already have. Spend the $ on ammo instead of another barrel or gun.
Pete
 
Alright, getting lots of good information, many thanks. Need to clarify a little to figure out what to do.

First, I have love tubeshooters advice of finding a beat up old SKS or single shot... problem is, I have been trying unsuccessfully to do so for awhile. Everyone is asking $300+ for everything around here, at which point I might as well just buy the .223 Handi Rifle new.

On recoil:

I have actually shot a 5.56 on one occasion. I was way off the first few shots. Specifically, I was anticipating the recoil (I think). Once I concentrated really hard on fundamentals like breathing and not anticipating, I started getting my shots where I wanted them.

The reason I wan to step up from the .22lr is that I don't have that problem with my .22. I am by no means an amazing shot, but I don't have to worry about anticipating recoil at all. I am more worried about not ENOUGH recoil than I am about too much recoil (up to a point). I want something that will kick enough that I will be forced to correct my anticipation problem, which I don't think the .22 does that.

But, it does sound like most of the fundamentals will be best learned with my dad's old .22 from high school, although I am not 100% confident in the scope (low end scope that has been mounted on the gun since my dad was in high school).

Maybe I'll keep working with that and just keep looking till the right used gun pops up somewhere.
 
I would not be too overly concerned with recoil. Any of the rifles listed in this post have relatively low recoil. As far as the barrel accessory program, I was in your same boat. I had a single shot shotgun and wanted the 44 mag barrel so my wife had something to take on deer hunts (she does not care for my larger rifles). I got the barrel and slapped a scope on it and it is so much fun to shoot. Within 100 yards it is more than accurate enough for hunting or just target shooting as well. Recoil is minimal and I am sure the 357 mag barrel is even less. I think you will be happy with the extra barrel. I guarantee you that you won't even notice the recoil compared to the mighty single shot 12 ga. Those single shot shotguns kick harder than all of my rifles, no contest. You can always buy a recoil pad also to reduce the recoil.
 
I own an H&R Handi-rifle in .357 Magnum,,,

I own an H&R Handi-rifle chambered for .357 Magnum,,,
While it is an accurate and reliable rifle,,,
It's not a long-range rifle at all.

I've fired everything from 110 grain to 158 grain through it,,,
The bullet is dropping fast anywhere past 150 yards.

The suggestions to shoot .223 are valid,,,
It's easily capable of 300 yard accuracy or farther,,,
And there are a large selection of inexpensive rifles for it.

There is nothing wrong with a Handi-Rifle in .223,,,
My friend has one and it's a sweet shooter,,,
But you hafta have love for single-shots.

Consider a Savage Axis,,,

Aarond

.
 
aarondhgraham said:
I own an H&R Handi-rifle chambered for .357 Magnum,,,
While it is an accurate and reliable rifle,,,
It's not a long-range rifle at all.

I've fired everything from 110 grain to 158 grain through it,,,
The bullet is dropping fast anywhere past 150 yards.

The suggestions to shoot .223 are valid,,,
It's easily capable of 300 yard accuracy or farther,,,
And there are a large selection of inexpensive rifles for it.

There is nothing wrong with a Handi-Rifle in .223,,,
My friend has one and it's a sweet shooter,,,
But you hafta have love for single-shots.

Consider a Savage Axis,,,

Aarond

.
Click to expand...
Exactly. And a little lower price here (but not stainless) http://www.harrisonstpawn.com/p-23953-sav-19742-axis-xp-223-yth-scope.aspx The OP can get a whole new rifle w/ decent (not great) scope for a little more than just a new barrel would cost.
 
With the 223 it probably wasn't the recoil that caused the anticipation, it was probably the muzzle blast.
That's one of the nicest factors of revolver rounds in carbines, they are much easier on the ears. I guess that's why I like them so much. I have tinnitus (ringing in the ears), and the 357 carbine is much more tolerable for me than any 223.

Maybe I'll keep working with that and just keep looking till the right used gun pops up somewhere.
Click to expand...

That's a good plan for the frugal.
 
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