Learning rifle with .357?
- Thread starter Pizzapinochle
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Nice thing about the 357, is you can reload it cheaply. I have a 77/357 on the way get my boys shooting larger bolt action. My boys (now 7 and 10) enjoy shooting the 38 and 357 out of my levers and handguns. As PO2Hammer stated, the muzzle blast can be extreme on a rifle cartridge. Recoil and muzzle blast should be fairly tame in comparison on the 357. Although not a tack driver at 100+ yards, it will suffice to get you going. Remember that there is a lot to learn about loads and which your rifle likes. You can get a lot of accuracy out of a gun if you fine tune the loads. Missouri cast makes some good cheap mag bullets in the 158 and 180g which should be good for accuracy. Good luck!
hardluk1
member
Buy your self a 17hmr from savage or marlin bolt rifle with a mag and you can have a rifle to shoot good groups at 200 yards.
Or a better .22lr and see how good you can shoot. A mid priced savage 22 bolt rifle and enough power in a scope to see 100 yard groups of sub 1 inch is not hard to do with ammo in the 6 to 10 dollar box range. . Still ring 4" gongs at 200 yards
Or a better .22lr and see how good you can shoot. A mid priced savage 22 bolt rifle and enough power in a scope to see 100 yard groups of sub 1 inch is not hard to do with ammo in the 6 to 10 dollar box range. . Still ring 4" gongs at 200 yards
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Well there you go, the solution right there...
If you feel you can learn with the .22 but for the scope, change the scope and stay well within the budget you set.
For only $129 you can buy a top end rimfire scope that will aid in shooting your .22 rifle well. For years I was putting cheap scopes on my 22's until I realized I was shooting those rifles most. They deserved batter glass and I put good glass on them.
This is a very good scope, I have one on my Savage bull barrel Mark II .22 rifle.
http://swfa.com/Nikon-3-9x40-ProStaff-Rimfire-Scope-P48766.aspx
Nighteyes
Member
Or a Marlin 1984C. They're pretty common and, IMO, are stronger and better-functioning than an "unimproved" Rossi. I've shot mine at ranges up to 200 yards with no problems.
A .357 lever gun also makes a decent companion to a .357 revolver.
Okay, converting the single shot 12 gauge to a 357 magnum is out.
Remember that doing things 'on the cheap' often results in spending more money in the long run.
I agree with what most are saying here about getting a 223. But I'd also add that to me you sound like an ideal candidate for a 22 Hornet.
The 223 is the most common 22 centerfire out there, but it is far from the only one.
On a scale of 1 to 10, if 1 = 22 LR and 10 = 223 then 22 hornet is a 5, 218 bee is a 7 and 222 is a 9.
218 bee is near extinct. 222, unless you are particularly interested in it, you might as well go with 223. 22 Hornet is a great old round that is growing in popularity. It has more bark than a 22LR but less than a 223. Also less muzzle blast.
I think you can get a handi-rifle in it, or at least get a barrel for it. However, seems to me you really need to spend a bit more and get a decent bolt gun.
I've not shot the Savage Walking Varminter before but I've shot other savages with the acc-u trigger and they are good guns. Looks like you can get one for about $500 which is probably twice what you want to pay, but I think it is money well spent.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=371859991
although if I were in your shoes I'd go for this one
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=372368963
Remember that doing things 'on the cheap' often results in spending more money in the long run.
I agree with what most are saying here about getting a 223. But I'd also add that to me you sound like an ideal candidate for a 22 Hornet.
The 223 is the most common 22 centerfire out there, but it is far from the only one.
On a scale of 1 to 10, if 1 = 22 LR and 10 = 223 then 22 hornet is a 5, 218 bee is a 7 and 222 is a 9.
218 bee is near extinct. 222, unless you are particularly interested in it, you might as well go with 223. 22 Hornet is a great old round that is growing in popularity. It has more bark than a 22LR but less than a 223. Also less muzzle blast.
I think you can get a handi-rifle in it, or at least get a barrel for it. However, seems to me you really need to spend a bit more and get a decent bolt gun.
I've not shot the Savage Walking Varminter before but I've shot other savages with the acc-u trigger and they are good guns. Looks like you can get one for about $500 which is probably twice what you want to pay, but I think it is money well spent.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=371859991
although if I were in your shoes I'd go for this one
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=372368963
Night eyes is onto one thing- the Marlin is a nicer rifle than the old rossi's. I bought 2 of the new-flagged "Braztech" 92s and they're good-enough-for what I use them for. Depends on price range you're into: I'd liken it to a camero/ corvette comparison- Both are more capable machines than most operators.
The other nice thing about a .357 magnum is that when you hit steel, you'll get a satisfying sound and show of movement, even at long range. Who knows, you might wind up doing some of that cowboy shooting stuff
The other nice thing about a .357 magnum is that when you hit steel, you'll get a satisfying sound and show of movement, even at long range. Who knows, you might wind up doing some of that cowboy shooting stuff
I like the .357 idea in just about any rifle format you can find it it. 77/357 bolt.. 1894 lever, handi single shot, contender single shot. I like it because it pairs with your revolver and ammo will be cheap. Pistol ammo is almost always cheaper than rifle. I don't have one yet, but I were to get a rifle plinker...it would be .357. My top choice would be one of the levers. Mainly because I have a crush on levers, but you can also shoot the 38 spc through some of them. And now your looking at very low recoil and cheap ammo.
I will say this also. If money were my concern, I would probably get the Rossi. But I like the Marlin more. Mainly because of the ease of scoping. But I wouldn't toss one of those Henry Big Boys, or the Winchester, or Uberti to the curb. They are sweet...just expensive.
All that being said, I agree that you can learn a lot from the .22 at 100 yards. It just ends up feeling a lot like a BB gun after a while. And you start to want something with a little more power. Also, fear of recoil is something you will need to learn to overcome. A .22 won't ever let you experience that. The anticipation of a big recoil will impact your skill in the beginning.
I also don't think you have to start with a scope. You can do a lot with iron sites if you stay below 100 yards.
I will say this also. If money were my concern, I would probably get the Rossi. But I like the Marlin more. Mainly because of the ease of scoping. But I wouldn't toss one of those Henry Big Boys, or the Winchester, or Uberti to the curb. They are sweet...just expensive.
All that being said, I agree that you can learn a lot from the .22 at 100 yards. It just ends up feeling a lot like a BB gun after a while. And you start to want something with a little more power. Also, fear of recoil is something you will need to learn to overcome. A .22 won't ever let you experience that. The anticipation of a big recoil will impact your skill in the beginning.
I also don't think you have to start with a scope. You can do a lot with iron sites if you stay below 100 yards.
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hardluk1
member
I thing that can be guaranteed is no 357 , 44 or 45 will shoot as well as a decent 22 bolt rifle with good ammo at 100 yards or 150 yards. So unless your willing to step up to a 223 rifle your not going to learn anything with a pistol cartridge in a rifle. Stay with some rimfire cartridge or make the step up to a minimum 350 to 400 dollar 223 plus a decent scope You could still be luck to shot with 10 dollars a box 22lr ammo at 100 yards. .
jaytex1969
Member
As ArchAngel and a few others mentioned, check out Bud's guns. They are solid people to deal with.
They offer a very helpful layaway that would allow you to get into something nicer without much pain in the wallet. For under $400, you can get into a nice entry level setup with easy terms of payment.
Here's their requirement:
Layaway (Firearms Only): 20% non-refundable deposit; pay balance in 90 days ($298 Minimum Purchase Required).
On a $400 purchase, you could do $100 down and 3 more monthly payments of $100.
Damn, now I want to buy something......
They offer a very helpful layaway that would allow you to get into something nicer without much pain in the wallet. For under $400, you can get into a nice entry level setup with easy terms of payment.
Here's their requirement:
Layaway (Firearms Only): 20% non-refundable deposit; pay balance in 90 days ($298 Minimum Purchase Required).
On a $400 purchase, you could do $100 down and 3 more monthly payments of $100.
Damn, now I want to buy something......
aarondhgraham
Member
Another thing to bear in mind,,,
Another thing to bear in mind,,,
.22 LR and .223 ammunition is relatively inexpensive.
Unless you get into reloading,,,
.357 Magnum will run you between 50 to 75 cents a round.
Pre-panic prices had bulk .22 LR ammo at 3.5 to 8 cents a round,,,
.223 can be had now between 35 to 50 cents a round,,,
Again, if you reload you can lower this cost a bit.
Just something else to consider.
Aarond
.
Another thing to bear in mind,,,
.22 LR and .223 ammunition is relatively inexpensive.
Unless you get into reloading,,,
.357 Magnum will run you between 50 to 75 cents a round.
Pre-panic prices had bulk .22 LR ammo at 3.5 to 8 cents a round,,,
.223 can be had now between 35 to 50 cents a round,,,
Again, if you reload you can lower this cost a bit.
Just something else to consider.
Aarond
.
MattShlock
Member
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- Jan 25, 2013
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- 787
Yeah, if you don't have a need for the pistol-in-a-rifle-length barrel, like hunting or home defense, other than "shooting a cenerfire rifle" I would probably hold off and get a bolt action .223 when you find one you like and can afford.
Competent shooters always gravitate back to the .22 LR to one extent or another eventually anyway -- don't think it isn't "grown up" or of it as something you are supposed to "graduate from."
Competent shooters always gravitate back to the .22 LR to one extent or another eventually anyway -- don't think it isn't "grown up" or of it as something you are supposed to "graduate from."
hardluk1
member
Any rimefire will also be more accurate than any lever action in any handguns cartridge out to 200 yards when both use quality price ammo. Figure 50 rounds of 357 will run 21 to 35 dollars and box of 450 and high grade 22 match ammo 15 to 18 , same for 22 mag , 17hmr or 17wsm
Pizzapinochle
member
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- 570
Well, i managed to stumble my way to a solution of sorts. Thanks for the advice, i am going to try and go shoot my new gun tomorrow then i'll come back with a full report.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Where have you been for the past year or so? A brick of high quality .22 ammo for only $15 to $18, not in this world!!!
A box of 50 Eley Match .22LR rounds will cost you $15 alone!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...unition-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-flat-nose
500 rounds of the same ammo above is available but for $142, not $18.
Pizzapinochle
member
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Alright, so I sort of managed to find a gun that works, still working out the details.
Working on a trade with someone on Wednesday, realized that I had a low value shotgun the they wanted and they had a scoped Mosin 91/30 that would work for my rifle shooting attempts. Mosin was not what I wanted, but if I want to be economically, trading a shotgun that I didn't use for it seemed like a good way to start. 7.62x54r ammo is cheap, seemed like I had my solution.
Took it out shooting on thursday, it kicks like crazy and I am having a bear of a time sighting the scope, but I had a rifle and a way to learn.
THEN i went to the swap meet at the gun range I am a member of on Saturday and what do I see....
H&R Model 157 in 30-30 for a very good price. Scoped and I LOVE the look of this gun. I also remembered tubeshooter's advice that a 30-30 was a great place to start, so of course I bought it.
Now I have two rifles, got to shoot them both today, definitely prefer the 30-30, just wish the ammo was cheaper. Blasting $1 down range every time I pull the trigger means the wallet will not support lots and lots of shooting.
Now I have to decide if I want to keep the mosin for cheaper shooting or just focus on the 30-30.
But, all that to say, while it seems like the .357 idea would have worked, I think what I got is much better.
Working on a trade with someone on Wednesday, realized that I had a low value shotgun the they wanted and they had a scoped Mosin 91/30 that would work for my rifle shooting attempts. Mosin was not what I wanted, but if I want to be economically, trading a shotgun that I didn't use for it seemed like a good way to start. 7.62x54r ammo is cheap, seemed like I had my solution.
Took it out shooting on thursday, it kicks like crazy and I am having a bear of a time sighting the scope, but I had a rifle and a way to learn.
THEN i went to the swap meet at the gun range I am a member of on Saturday and what do I see....
H&R Model 157 in 30-30 for a very good price. Scoped and I LOVE the look of this gun. I also remembered tubeshooter's advice that a 30-30 was a great place to start, so of course I bought it.
Now I have two rifles, got to shoot them both today, definitely prefer the 30-30, just wish the ammo was cheaper. Blasting $1 down range every time I pull the trigger means the wallet will not support lots and lots of shooting.
Now I have to decide if I want to keep the mosin for cheaper shooting or just focus on the 30-30.
But, all that to say, while it seems like the .357 idea would have worked, I think what I got is much better.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Yes the 30-30 is a good choice and it's a good Deer rifle too.
As for the ammo being $1 a round, unfortunately that's what is is now but pre-shortage they were ~$12/box. (sometimes as low as $9 on sale)
Let me be the first to recommend reloading. You can buy all the equipment you need for about $100 including an inexpensive $28 Lee single stage press and you will be able to make good 30-30 ammo for only $7.30/box with good 150gr Hornady bullets and only $4.38/box with 165gr lead bullets.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-reloader-single-stage-press ($28)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/251154/lee-pacesetter-3-die-set-30-30-winchester ($28)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/974498/lee-powder-funnel-22-to-45-caliber ($4)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/438260/hornady-gs-1500-electronic-powder-scale-1500-grain-capacity ($27.50)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/717013/lee-deluxe-quick-trim-case-trimmer ($15)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711501/lee-quick-trim-die-30-30-winchester ($9)
tubeshooter
Contributing Member
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- 2,149
Congratulations! Glad you found the advice (mine and others) helpful!
I can empathize with the ammo cost. Unfortunately, I think either a true pistol caliber carbine or .223/7.62x39 are the only rounds you can shoot cheaper off the shelf.
Pretty much anything else will be at least $1/round. Even .243.
Before the current ammo situation, there were deals on .30-30 sometimes. Especially right after hunting season. As mentioned, sometimes as low as $10/box; that's the cheapest I ever found it. I hear it is reload-friendly, so you might want to take that into consideration.
You can always pick up a .223 or 7.62x39 later. They would be good candidates for cheap to shoot AND flat shooting. The pistol rounds will be cheaper, but will drop considerably at range.
I can empathize with the ammo cost. Unfortunately, I think either a true pistol caliber carbine or .223/7.62x39 are the only rounds you can shoot cheaper off the shelf.
Pretty much anything else will be at least $1/round. Even .243.
Before the current ammo situation, there were deals on .30-30 sometimes. Especially right after hunting season. As mentioned, sometimes as low as $10/box; that's the cheapest I ever found it. I hear it is reload-friendly, so you might want to take that into consideration.
You can always pick up a .223 or 7.62x39 later. They would be good candidates for cheap to shoot AND flat shooting. The pistol rounds will be cheaper, but will drop considerably at range.
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