On my Lee auto disk, I have been measuring Bullseye and getting about the same measurement as the chart says I should. Measuring charges for both 38spec and 45ACP. Now switching to 2400, it seems that the Lee disks are off by as much as a grain. Using the setting for 13.8g I get 13.0 weighing it. Using the 15.9 setting, I am at 14.9-15.0 weighing them. As much of a pain in the butt as the Lee scale is to use, I have heard that it is pretty accurate, so my question is: do the density of powders vary that much? and if they do, should I pay more attention to weight or volume?
Lee auto disk ?
- Thread starter Jeff H
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ChuckB
Member
The Auto Disk is handy, but I've always weighed my powders from a disk aperture to verify the load. The weight is more important than the volume. Different powders have different densities and grain shapes. Go with the weight, and you'll be fine. Just be sure to write down your findings.
Chuck
Chuck
ljnowell
Member
I have had a lee auto disk for a while now and find it to be dead reliable and repeatable, if not always accurate. For instance, I load 200gr LSWCs in my .45s and 255gr LSWC in my .45colt @ 5.0gr IMR 700x. The cavity specified wont give me 5.0. I went one cavity greater, and keep a plastic handled screwdriver next to my press. I tap the powder measure twice after each pull to settle the large flake powder and it throws a consistant 5.0-5.1gr. 700x is a coarse powder and doesnt work as well as others. For bullseye I have noticed that the cavities are dead on and repeat without fail everytime. I only use 2400 for Ruger Only loads in my Blackhawk so every charge is weighed and trickled by hand. I only load 25 or so at a time.
Thanks guys, makes me feel better,
Between 13.8 and 15.9 grains on the paperwork, I seem to be weighing 6% less than Lee says I should be.
I guess this is the reason people say to work up slowly to max load.
It just gets a little nerve racking when you are measuring what should/could be 15.9 and max is 15.3, but you are measuring 15.0...................Oh my nerves. /sigh
Between 13.8 and 15.9 grains on the paperwork, I seem to be weighing 6% less than Lee says I should be.
I guess this is the reason people say to work up slowly to max load.
It just gets a little nerve racking when you are measuring what should/could be 15.9 and max is 15.3, but you are measuring 15.0...................Oh my nerves. /sigh
rbernie
Contributing Member
I've been using an AutoDisk setup for about twenty years now (actually on my second one), and the volumetric data has NEVER been close enough to use as-printed. I always weigh my charges to find the correct disk/aperture.
rfwobbly
Member
The Lee Auto Disk is an OK piece of equipment, but please allow me to point out something for your own safety. The difference between max and min load seems to be about 2gr, but your Auto Disk has a variation of nearly 1gr in and of itself. That is to say if you aim to drop 14.0gr, you could be loading max or min. In other words, the equipment you have is not accurate enough for the loads you are seeking to drop for this particular powder.
When the min and max are that close then you need equipment that is accurate to at least 1/10 grain, that is to say 10 times more accurate than what you're now doing. So for your own safety I urge you to do one of the following....
• Swap back to a powder with a much larger spread between max and min
• Hand weigh each load with a "trickler"
• Acquire a better powder drop
Thanks for the reply. one thing I forgot to point out is that I am getting exactly the same drop every time I weigh a charge, it is just not what Lee says I should be getting so that concerns me. Just a bit low using 2400. its fine on Bullseye.
On a previous thread here on THR we were told that Lee calibrated the disks using Bullseye and Win 231. Many owners find the chart to be fairly accurate for these two powders. I can't verify that for sure, but many report decent accuracy with those two powders.
Once the disks were calibrated for these two powders, they got the relative density of all the other powders compared to Bullseye and 231. They completed the chart by calculating the theoretical weight of all the other powders for each cavity volume using their densities compared to the two original powders.
I guess it would take too long to buy a pound of every powder on the market and pour it into the hopper, then weigh 10 drops of each powder through each and every hole in all the disks.
Once the disks were calibrated for these two powders, they got the relative density of all the other powders compared to Bullseye and 231. They completed the chart by calculating the theoretical weight of all the other powders for each cavity volume using their densities compared to the two original powders.
I guess it would take too long to buy a pound of every powder on the market and pour it into the hopper, then weigh 10 drops of each powder through each and every hole in all the disks.
Seedtick
Member
I like the micrometer adjustable charge bar for my Lee measure. You don't have to find a cavity that throws the right weight. You just adjust it until it's right where you want it. NICE! 
ST
ST
ljnowell
Member
No way, not even close. The most I have ever had from charge to charge for any powder has been with 700x and that was .2gr. Not anywhere near 1 grain of inconsistency.
I did exactly this: for all caves from the first two Lee disks (in .30 to .66 cc interval) for the used powders: TiteGroup, Bullseye, W231, Vihta N310, 700X and Red Dot. With the scale that measures up to .02 grains, this one, I have recorded not only an average drop weight, but also standard deviation of the drop, which gives a clue what is the minimal cavity where flake powders, like Red Dot or 700x measure consistently. .46 cave and below give more than 10% inconsistency with Red Dot, .43 and below do not work for 700x. Drops from the cavity that is second next after the unstable one (.53 for RD and .49 for 700x) give consistent drops, within 2%. The mod to overcome problem with small measures from these powders is described here. Other powders in the above list measure with less than 2% of standard deviation down to the smallest cave.
I believe that it is not safe to publish the complete table on the Internet due to liability reasons. While I am confident that my measures are correct for my powder lots and set of disks, there is no guarantee that other disks and same powder from other lots drop the same weights.
rbernie
Contributing Member
This has absolutely NOT been my experience.
RidgwayCO
Member
Just because the weight of powder thrown by a specific cavity varies significantly from the listed weight does not mean there's anything wrong. Powders can (and do) vary significantly in their density which can make any listing of "weight to volume" meaningless. I'm pretty sure that Lee has calibrated their charts for the worst case condition, where the powder is at it's maximum density (most weight per cc). Thus anything less dense would weigh less than their charts.
Therefore I created a chart in Excel that uses the actual VMD's of my powders to help setup my Lee Pro Auto Disk measures. However, even with this aid I always check the weights thrown on an RCBS 10-10 scale.
With the right powders (any VihtaVuori, any ball powder, Power Pistol, and 2400) I've found the Lee Pro Auto Disk to do an excellent job of metering (+ or - 0.1gr). Clays and Unique have been the exception, due to bridging in the measure.
Therefore I created a chart in Excel that uses the actual VMD's of my powders to help setup my Lee Pro Auto Disk measures. However, even with this aid I always check the weights thrown on an RCBS 10-10 scale.
With the right powders (any VihtaVuori, any ball powder, Power Pistol, and 2400) I've found the Lee Pro Auto Disk to do an excellent job of metering (+ or - 0.1gr). Clays and Unique have been the exception, due to bridging in the measure.
Thanks guys, it sounds like everything is fine as long as I weigh some charges to determine the density of that particular jug of powder.
The 15.0g loads of 2400 darn near fill the case all the way to the base of the bullet. That is a lot of powder when you are used to loading 3.5g Bullseye in a 38spec case to push the same bullet.
Should be nice and loud though.
The 15.0g loads of 2400 darn near fill the case all the way to the base of the bullet. That is a lot of powder when you are used to loading 3.5g Bullseye in a 38spec case to push the same bullet.
Should be nice and loud though.
RVenick
Member
Like someone above posted setup an excel spreadsheet and keep a record of disk# and actual powder amount. I bought a double disk kit so I could fine tune my loads even more. As for filling a case I know it looks strange when the case is almost full. I saw the same thing the first time I put 16.5g of 2400 in a 357mag case.
SSN Vet
Member
I'll wager that this topic gets posted more than any other on the reloading board.....
the tables are conservative and will almost always throw a weight below what is published.....
Temperature, humidity, lot to lot variations in powder (needless to say, reformulations over the 20+ year life of that table), the accuracy of your scale, all affect the actual VMD.....
The final prognosis is always the same....
1. Use the table as a guide to get you close to the charge you want (or if you want to save yourself a few iterations, start one size larger.
2. Weigh you charge and adjust disk size as needed.
3. record your settings for next time
4. keep the hopper full to half full
5. the Auto-Disk itself (forget the stupid table) gives very repeatable resultls with just about any ball powder.
6. consider using a rotary powder measure for stick powders.
You can spend a lot more..... and not get much better.
the tables are conservative and will almost always throw a weight below what is published.....
Temperature, humidity, lot to lot variations in powder (needless to say, reformulations over the 20+ year life of that table), the accuracy of your scale, all affect the actual VMD.....
The final prognosis is always the same....
1. Use the table as a guide to get you close to the charge you want (or if you want to save yourself a few iterations, start one size larger.
2. Weigh you charge and adjust disk size as needed.
3. record your settings for next time
4. keep the hopper full to half full
5. the Auto-Disk itself (forget the stupid table) gives very repeatable resultls with just about any ball powder.
6. consider using a rotary powder measure for stick powders.
You can spend a lot more..... and not get much better.
One thing I noticed today while checking the powder charges is that I was getting a slightly higher reading by cycling the turret through all 4 stations than I was getting by filling the same case repeatedly and weighing them without moving the turret. I guess all the jarring of the sizing and crimping dies helps settle the powder a bit. The measurements are very repeatable so I assume all is good to just weigh the charge that drops. The weights are about a whole disk size under the Lee paperwork. I'm hearing that this is normal so I'll quit worrying about it.
I'll find out this weekend when I shoot them all.
I'll find out this weekend when I shoot them all.
Seedtick
Member
There ya go!
That's why it's so important that we develop a repeatable routine.
ST
That's why it's so important that we develop a repeatable routine.
ST
TEDDY
Member
disc
with all the new reloaders that dont have manuals and just get the equipment it shows that lee thought of safety.I always start 2 sizes larger and weigh.most of the time it works.since I dedicate a measure to the charge it works for me.that measure stays on the turret.I also have pacific,
RCBS and lyman measures.
with all the new reloaders that dont have manuals and just get the equipment it shows that lee thought of safety.I always start 2 sizes larger and weigh.most of the time it works.since I dedicate a measure to the charge it works for me.that measure stays on the turret.I also have pacific,
RCBS and lyman measures.
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