Lee Factory Crimp Die

[MoreIsLess]

I was talking to a guy yesterday that has been in the business of manufacturing lead bullets for a long time. He insists that the FCD should not be used when reloading lead bullets. (not sure about jacketed). He recommends Lyman dies over the others. He says that seating and crimping should be in a separate step (Dillon says this too).

What is your take on this? I have Lee dies (Dillon 550 press), including the FCD and have been using it on both jacketed and lead bullet loading.

 

[Magnum Shooter]

Does your ammunition hit the target? Do you get flyers? Have you noticed any other problems with your ammo? If not keep using the FCD, and if so stop using it, and see if you get any improvement.

 

[dragon813gt]

The FCD will typically swages down a cast bullet to jacketed size. It depends on the size of the carbide ring in the die. As for seating/crimping that's personal preference.


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[Sam1911]

In my experience of loading a lot of competition pistol ammo, all of it cast lead, I'd give a mixed answer.

1) You do NOT need the FCD. Period. Any problem it is correcting can/should be corrected earlier in the process.

2) I seat and crimp in one step. This isn't hard and there's no reason you can't do this. It is the traditional way, and only takes a moment more to set up.

3) I used to use the FCD for everything, because it came with most of my die sets. However.... Cast bullets are sized a few thousandths larger than jacketed bullets. They tend to very slightly expand the case when seated. This can make the case snag/hang in the carbide post-sizing ring on the FCD. That makes the loading operation jerky and rough -- and does NOTHING good for your loaded round.

I've entirely quit using the FCD with my .44 loads for this reason. (The FCD's ring was designed for .429" jacketed bullets and I'm pushing .431" cast bullets through it and it was ROUGH.) I set the seating die to seat and crimp firmly into the crimping groove, and that's IT. The round is complete at that point. I've NEVER had a .44 Spc. or Mag. that was out of spec coming out of the press.

4) I do still use the FCD for .45ACP and 9mm. I do not use it because it crimps, or because I really want to post-size anything. I use it in lieu of checking every round with a case-gauge afterward. If they go through the FCD without snagging, they will chamber, so I don't need to double-check them before taking them to a match.

 

[joecil]

I use Lee FCD on all 4 rounds I make all with lead bullets. Now on the 9mm and 45 ACP I use the standard ones that came with the 4 die set. My 45 Colt I went with one from Ranch Dog Outdoors and use the standard one for the 45-70 which is similar to the one from Ranch Dog Outdoors in that they don't touch the bullet. I seat and crimp in two steps also and prefer it.

 

[moxie]

Mostly agree with Sam, although I don't use the FCD at all. If you set up your 3 die set correctly, your ammo will be good. Period. Jacketed or lead. You don't need to seat and crimp in separate steps and you don't need an FCD. But if you like extra work and expense it's OK; after all, it is a free country.

It is prudent to check rounds with a gauge, or the barrel itself, but using an FCD as a checker makes sense too. That's the only use I can see for one.

But you will discover this subject is one of the liveliest on the gun boards.

 

[RustyFN]

I was talking to a guy yesterday that has been in the business of manufacturing lead bullets for a long time. He insists that the FCD should not be used when reloading lead bullets.

Well that's just his opinion. In my experience with all the calibers I use lead bullets in and the FCD if the bullets are sized .001 larger than the jacketed bullet then the FCD won't size/swage the bullet down to a smaller size. I agree the FCD is not need to fix ammo but it makes a nice crimp and great case gauge.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

If you set up your 3 die set correctly, your ammo will be good. Period. Jacketed or lead.

What if the lead boolit is expanding the case to the point where it won't feed reliably in an auto? Having your dies set correctly does nothing to help that. That's what mine did. Even sizing down to .401, they wouldn't feed reliably in my .40. I suppose my Sig must have pretty tight tolerences. I got a Lee FCD and the problem is gone. It's still accurate too.

 

[loadedround]

I have been reloading rifle and pistol ammo for over 40 years and have used just about every manufacturer's dies. In all this time I have never felt the need to use a Lee FCD. Need I say more.

 

[moxie]

I've never experienced this problem with my "boolits."

I guess I always assume one would get bullets of the correct diameter, rather than trying to size them to the correct diameter.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

you can just snatch the carbide sizing ring out of the FCD and then it's like any other crimp die.

 

[mdi]

This is a pretty hot topic and discussed several times on many forums, and can at times get "heated" My take is from experience; toss the Lee FCD. For revolvers shooting lead, the FCD die will swage down the bullet and leading will result. Proper bullet fit is key to accurate, lead-free shooting and a FCD can/does swage lead bullets after seating, making them undersize. For semi-autos, learn to properly adjust your dies and a "post seating size die" is not necessary. (I have been loading .45 ACP for a few years, and reciently 9mm and won't use a FCD because I have no chambering/feeding issues with several styles of bullets, (lead, plated, jacketed in several weights/configurations) in either caliber.

Think of the millions of 45 ACP rounds successfully reloaded and shot before Lee developed their FCD...

Not a Lee basher here, just have a very low opinion of Lee's FCD for handguns.

 

[918v]

What if the lead boolit is expanding the case to the point where it won't feed reliably in an auto?

Semi auto chambers are .010" larger in diameter than SAAMI spec ammo. You would have to load bullets way way way oversized to cause a chambering issue. The reason some people are having chambering issues is they are using bullets too large/long for the freebore/throat/leade or they are overcrimping and buckling the case. When you buckle a case, it increases in diameter. It then sticks in the chamber.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree with Sam1911, 100%. Sometime back he convinced me the FCD was a good way to keep from gauging all those loaded rounds. I still do not use the FCD for anything any more, but I now understand this purpose for it.

I have a tight chambered EMP, where the loaded rounds cannot be .392 near the base (.3915 is pushing it), but I gauge all the sized brass, tossing the few that fail, and then load the ones that passed. Slower for sure, but I feel like I am eliminating stressed brass that way.

 

[res7s]

I think Sam covered it pretty well. The thing to do is DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. If you're making good accurate ammo using the FCD use it. I use mine with 40 and 45. Mine do not swage my bullets down to jacketed diameters. My 45 acp bullets go in at .4524" and when pulled still measure .4524".

If you want to crimp in a separate step and the FCD is swaging your bullets you have several options. You can knock the ring out, or polish the ring to you're desired diameter using lapping compound, or use the crimping bushing in a FCD die body for a larger caliber. My 40SW bushing fits my 45 acp FCD body. Lee also makes a taper crimp die. You can usually crimp(only) with a seating die by removing or adjusting the seating stem away from the bullet. You might find one in a thrift shop.

There are a few people using FCD's to load their competition ammo. Someone usually says "no competitor uses them", but that's not entirely true. The ones I know just don't tell.

 

[MoreIsLess]

That begs the obvious question

With that's been said in mind, the obvious question I would like to pose is "how does one correctly set the seating/crimping die so as not to need the FCD, assuming Lee dies are being used

 

[Lost Sheep]

With that's been said in mind, the obvious question I would like to pose is "how does one correctly set the seating/crimping die so as not to need the FCD, assuming Lee dies are being used

It isn't hard, but to retype the steps that should have come with your set of dies would have little added benefit.

Do you still have the instructions?

Lost Sheep

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

follow the instructions

http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Pistol3.pdf

under Section 5: Bullet Seating die

 

[Walkalong]

Bell properly (The M Die is great for getting bullets started and seated straight, as is the Redding copy), seat them straight (Start them straight and use a seater stem with a good fit to the bullet), and do not over crimp. Trim the cases if the case lengths vary a lot and you are roll crimping.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Expedient method

If anyone detects any error, please let me know (by PM preferred, so as not to clutter the thread) and I will edit.

If you have a loaded round of the same type you wish to adjust your die for, put it in your press. With no die in place, raise the ram to the top of its stroke.

Unscrew the seating stem from your seat/crimp die. Not all the way out, just far enough that it will not contact the bullet.

Install the seat/crimp die in the press and screw it in until the crimp shoulder contacts the loaded round's crimp (or case mouth) firmly, but not so firmly that it re-shapes the cartridge. You will feel this or notice that the ram will begin to move. Watch carefully. As you screw the die in, it is VERY EASY to move the ram unknowingly. So, when the die makes contact, back it out a little, push the ram up again and hold the handle while you screw the die in to make contact. Screwing the die in gives your fingers a LOT of leverage.

Look at the cartridge to ensure that you didn't change anything.

Raise the ram again.

Screw the seating stem in until the stem hits the bullet nose firmly.

Your die is now adjusted (or close to it).

Load a round and check it for dimensions, crimp, feeding, etc.

re-adjust as necessary

Lost Sheep

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

i back out 3 turns off the shellholder (no crimp) and seat a bullet trial and error until i reach the desired COAL. then i screw the seater plug way out and screw the die body in little by little until i get the desired amount of crimp. then i screw the seater plug in until it is snug against the bullet. the seater plug might need some fine tuning, but the die is pretty much adjusted. i use hornady lock rings on the lee dies so i don't have to readjust every time.

i prefer to crimp separately

 

[cfullgraf]

I agree with Sam1911, 100%. Sometime back he convinced me the FCD was a good way to keep from gauging all those loaded rounds. I still do not use the FCD for anything any more, but I now understand this purpose for it.

I have a tight chambered EMP, where the loaded rounds cannot be .392 near the base (.3915 is pushing it), but I gauge all the sized brass, tossing the few that fail, and then load the ones that passed. Slower for sure, but I feel like I am eliminating stressed brass that way.

Ah, sounds like this thread is the "small base die argument" for the handgun set.

I can see if one has a tight chamber in the handgun, something needs to be done to guarantee chambering in a match or at other times. Brass and bullets are too variable to account for chambers being on the small end of the tolerance specifications.

Using standard resizing dies, standard expander dies, standard seater dies, and I prefer to taper crimp in a separate step, I have never had chambering issues with any of my auto loading pistols with standard chambers that were not operator induced. And even then, they were few and far between.

For many years back in the early eighties, I had to use a steel sizing die for 357 Magnum because the two or three carbide sizers that I had left a small "bulge" at the base that prevented chambering. The steel sizing die resized the case a smidge farther down to the base that eliminated the bulge.

While I still have no use for the Lee handgun FCD die, I will agree that there could be a use for one for some folks.

 

[oldreloader]

Well that's just his opinion. In my experience with all the calibers I use lead bullets in and the FCD if the bullets are sized .001 larger than the jacketed bullet then the FCD won't size/swage the bullet down to a smaller size. I agree the FCD is not need to fix ammo but it makes a nice crimp and great case gauge.

I agree with Rusty again. I use the FCD and it doesn't swage my bullets in 9MM or 45 ACP. The 9MM is actually a tapered case so it should not be an issue. In my case, if I "feel" the case going into the FCD on my 45 it means I have too much flare on the case. I'm not saying it works that way for everyone but it does for me.

 

[jcwit]

Expedient method

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone detects any error, please let me know (by PM preferred, so as not to clutter the thread) and I will edit.

If you have a loaded round of the same type you wish to adjust your die for, put it in your press. With no die in place, raise the ram to the top of its stroke.

Unscrew the seating stem from your seat/crimp die. Not all the way out, just far enough that it will not contact the bullet.

Install the seat/crimp die in the press and screw it in until the crimp shoulder contacts the loaded round's crimp (or case mouth) firmly, but not so firmly that it re-shapes the cartridge. You will feel this or notice that the ram will begin to move. Watch carefully. As you screw the die in, it is VERY EASY to move the ram unknowingly. So, when the die makes contact, back it out a little, push the ram up again and hold the handle while you screw the die in to make contact. Screwing the die in gives your fingers a LOT of leverage.

Look at the cartridge to ensure that you didn't change anything.

Raise the ram again.

Screw the seating stem in until the stem hits the bullet nose firmly.

Your die is now adjusted (or close to it).

Load a round and check it for dimensions, crimp, feeding, etc.

re-adjust as necessary

Lost Sheep

I've used the above method for years now. It is the one thing that I've found a use for steel cased ammo cases, making dummy rounds for every different cast bullet I reload for every caliber. These dummy rounds are kept in the die box for the next time I need them.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Semi auto chambers are .010" larger in diameter than SAAMI spec ammo. You would have to load bullets way way way oversized to cause a chambering issue.

I know that without using the FCD I'm getting a couple fte each magazine. Using it, I've yet to have one.

Maybe I'm belling the case too much.

Sorry for the hijack MoreIsLess. Valuable info though.