Lee Factory Crimp Die

[918v]

I have a tight chambered EMP, where the loaded rounds cannot be .392 near the base (.3915 is pushing it), but I gauge all the sized brass, tossing the few that fail, and then load the ones that passed. Slower for sure, but I feel like I am eliminating stressed brass that way.

I think there's something wrong with your calipers. Fired brass from my largest 9mm chamber measures .3915"

 

[918v]

I know that without using the FCD I'm getting a couple fte each magazine. Using it, I've yet to have one.

FTE as in a fired case getting stuck in the chamber?

 

[Walkalong]

Semi auto chambers are .010" larger in diameter than SAAMI spec ammo

Tell that to my EMP.

I know that without using the FCD I'm getting a couple fte each magazine. Using it, I've yet to have one.

Fail to extract? Eject? I fail to see how an FCD affects either. Something else?

 

[Walkalong]

I think there's something wrong with your calipers. Fired brass from my largest 9mm chamber measures .3915"

Which ones, my Harbor Freight, my Mituyoyo, or my Starrett? They all were used when I first had trouble with my EMP and reloads. SA had to open the chamber a hair to get it to SAMMI minimum.

I also suspect you are not hot rodding the 9MM, like some folks do, and range brass is always suspect.

 

[James2]

With that's been said in mind, the obvious question I would like to pose is "how does one correctly set the seating/crimping die so as not to need the FCD, assuming Lee dies are being used

Here is how I do it, with any combo seating and crimping die.Click

I have never used the FCD nor do I ever plan to. It is really not necessary.

 

[Striker Fired]

Not all my semi-auto chambers are .01 over.Some are match types and are tighter.So not all are as oversized as thought. It depends on mfg and what they want to make them.
The only FCD that I tried came in a 45acp set that I bought to try out the seater.It will work OK on my loads for my XDM45(it takes .451 lead,.4515 will start to jam with some brands of brass).With one of my 1911 barrels it won't because it needs .454 sized lead bullet and the fcd swages the bullet down. I just quit using it, but I could see it being usefull if I shot the XDm in matches.

 

[918v]

Which ones, my Harbor Freight, my Mituyoyo, or my Starrett? They all were used when I first had trouble with my EMP and reloads. SA had to open the chamber a hair to get it to SAMMI minimum.

I also suspect you are not hot rodding the 9MM, like some folks do, and range brass is always suspect.

My Glock chamber spits them out at .389" tops. My KKM and Sig barrels .3915". After a trip through my sizer, they are .386-.387" at the base.

Loading a bullet into those cases does not change the base dimensions cuz the case is tapered.

If your calipers are sound, your sizer must be bad.

 

[Walkalong]

Who knows what charge or what barrel these offending brass were fired from. I have three 9MM sizers, Redding, Lee, & RCBS, none of which will bring them all of them down below .392. The Lee has a tapered carbide insert, and does the best job of leaving no hump near the case head, while the Redding is the worst about leaving a big hump. The offending brass will not size down enough in any of them, no matter how tight I have the die against the shell plate.

I could send you some brass to try your sizer on. I have buckets of range brass. I can find some more over expanded cases right quick like. Might be those fellows shooting 9MM Major, which is why if my sizer won't bring it down to spec, I toss it. This same brass will feed, fire, and eject out of my other 9MM chambers, which are more generous.

 

[918v]

Are you loading on a progressive or SS? Maybe the sizer is not going all the way down on the case?

 

[Walkalong]

Progressive.

I have checked my Shell Plate, and I am down against it, but not hard against it, because it made no difference.

 

[918v]

But the shell plate might be too thick to allow the sizer to go down far enough on the case to size the base adequately. I trimmed my shell holder to allow the sizer to go down another .040" or so and it made a huge difference. Have you considered a "U" die? It has a tighter carbide sizing ring that sizes the case more and is better suited for progressives.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I said it wrong. It's failure to feed or chamber
The round will start to go in and then get stuck.

 

[918v]

Lemme guess, progressive?

 

[Walkalong]

The round will start to go in and then get stuck.

Well, the FCD is supposed to cure that by squeezing any fat round down. Do make sure the round isn't loaded too long for your barrel.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

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Although it doesn't size as much, the FCD supposedly sizes down farther than the sizer, and might cure my 9MM brass, but I doubt it.

I trimmed my shell holder to allow the sizer to go down another .040" or so and it made a huge difference.

.040 more? Yep, that almost certainly do it, but it isn't very feasible on the progressive shell plate. I could do that with a shell holder and size on a single stage. Since I size only first on the LNL, it would be the same. No added step. Then I could toss only really visibly bulged brass. That is a thought.

(Side note. I have two .223 FL sizers. I had to grind a little off both of them to get them to size a case enough on my LNL to fit my Wilson case gauge. Hmm. No problem with my .06 sizer on the LNL and sizing to fit a Wilson case gauge though. I am getting excellent case life sizing to fit the .223 Wilson case gauge, so I figure its OK)

Have you considered a "U" die?

I tried one in .38 Super. It was putting a ridge on the brass near the base. Ever try to grind carbide?

 

[918v]

Not personally, but what if you took your sizer to a machine shop and had them take .050" off the bottom? The degree of flare they put on these 9mm sizers should acommodate such an alteration. I think it is doable with a surface grinder.

 

[Walkalong]

I have considered doing that to my 9MM sizer, but there is very little room on the bottom before you get to the carbide ring. Many dies roll that over a hair to help hold the insert. I did grind some off of one Redding sizer to see what it would do (Not 9MM), and the ring promptly came out. But hey, I didn't touch the other two Redding sizers that had the inserts come out.

My apologies to the OP for getting off topic.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Isn't there a "Bulge Buster" die that sends the (rimless) case completely through the sizer? Wouldn't that cure the problem being described here in these most recent posts?

Lost Sheep

 

[Walkalong]

Yes, not interested. If it takes that to size it down, I figure it is over stressed. Am I right? I dunno, but that is my take on it. I have so much 9MM brass I am not worried about saving the few that won't size to .391.

 

[Striker Fired]

The bulge buster dies are for the .40S&W brass that is bulged. Unless Lee makes one for 9
I have machined off about .06 the bottom of several sizer dies in order to get rid of the big radius and the bulge at the bottom of certain cases.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Yes, not interested. If it takes that to size it down, I figure it is over stressed. Am I right? I dunno, but that is my take on it. I have so much 9MM brass I am not worried about saving the few that won't size to .391.

If the only problem is that the sizing ring does not reach all the way to the base of the cartridge I would think that the overstressed question is not conclusive.

But I hear you on the other question. 9mm brass is too easy to come by, so putting more work into saving cases that might be questionable anyway is not worth the trouble. To the metal recyclers they go.

Lost Sheep

 

[Walkalong]

My Lee 9MM sizer does not have any extra metal to take off before you hit carbide, and there is very little flare to the carbide insert. The insert is deep and tapered, so it leaves brass looking like factory with no bulge at the bottom.

A pic of the Lee die bottom.

The Lee and Redding to show the flare differences. (Gotta squint)

Length of Lee carbide insert.

 

[918v]

You could try to mod the Redding die. If the carbide pulls out, they make epoxies for that. It will never pull out again.

Or talk with the machine shop about chopping and champhering the carbide. It can't be that difficult.

Not sizing the case all the way has consequences, primarily in the form of shortened case length. Fired 9mm cases come out .750-.754" out of my die. Yours are prolly .744" or less.

 

[Walkalong]

I just happen to have 7 sized ones laying around.

FC=.746
FC=.746
GFI=.746
CCI=.748
CCI=.745
*I* .751

Definitely shorter overall. Excellent neck tension though. I did have to shave down the expander.

 

[straightShot]

What if the lead boolit is expanding the case to the point where it won't feed reliably in an auto? Having your dies set correctly does nothing to help that. That's what mine did. Even sizing down to .401, they wouldn't feed reliably in my .40. I suppose my Sig must have pretty tight tolerences. I got a Lee FCD and the problem is gone. It's still accurate too.

For a lead bullet, I have had to seat bullets deeper, too! If it works with an FCD, stick with it!

 

[popper]

Arkansas Paul - you can bell a case really big, push (or cycle) into the chamber to see what the chamber size is, chamber will remove the bell. I usually have problems with 1) not removing all the bell - taper crimp for diff case length. 2) a small ring of shaved lead at the mouth, really hard to see. I use FCD for rifle (cast) but not SA pistol, as I've had no problems. My XDm chamber is larger than my PX4.