Lee FCD....

[Rodentman]

I know this has been discussed, but I am not clear on the function of the Lee FCD.

I understand the roll crimp and taper crimp, I think. My question is does the FCD perform each function depending on how the die is set, or do the FCD's for the auto calibers function differently than the revolvers?

I put a fairly light taper crimp on the .38's and they work fine. I cannot really discern a taper on the .40's but I don't want to crank on the die and deform the bullet. The case mouth at the bullet junction measures .418

I used 6.1g of Power Pistol with a 180g 180 FMJ bullet and standard SP primers.

 

[D. Manley]

The type of crimp applied by the Lee FCD (as well as other brands) will typically be caliber dependent. Normally, revolver loads such as, .38 Special, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, etc. will be roll crimped where straight-wall auto-loader fodder is taper crimped. In some calibers, manufacturers will offer a choice of roll or taper in their crimping dies allowing the reloader to tailor his loads to the type of gun & bullets he is using.

The Lee FCD differs from other crimp dies (no matter roll or crimp style) in that, it also has a carbide ring insert very similar to a resizing die that is intended to provide a "final check" to ensure the round is within spec. I don't use them much any more but when I did, I had no issues with mine. Some shooters, particularly those shooting lead in non-tapered cases (i.e., .40 S&W), have ran into problems running lead bullets through them finding the sizing part of the die actually compressed the bullet reducing it's diameter.

 

[Rodentman]

Thank you, that is helpful!

 

[loadedround]

The Lee FCD is basically unnecessary loading pistol or revolver with a quality set of dies such as Redding or RCBS since these dies have a built in crimper or come with a separate crimp die to either roll or taper crimp. If one was to use a FCD die it would be much more useful on a rifle case, especially one that had a crimping groove(cannelure). The NRA proved this in a test many years ago.

 

[RustyFN]

The Lee FCD is basically unnecessary loading pistol or revolver with a quality set of dies such as Redding or RCBS since these dies have a built in crimper or come with a separate crimp die to either roll or taper crimp.

OK now I'm confused. The Lee seating dies also crimp, taper or roll depending on caliber. The FCD does a taper or roll crimp depending on auto or revolver caliber. The FCD is basicly a separate crimp die so you can keep from crimping in the seating die if that is what you want. Now how is that different from the other brands?
Rusty

 

[Walkalong]

The difference in the FCD die vs other crimp dies, and Lee's crimp only die, is the "post sizing" carbide ring in the die, which some think is the cats meow, and others think is a bandaid to proper reloading.

 

[schmeky]

Some shooters, particularly those shooting lead in non-tapered cases (i.e., .40 S&W), have ran into problems running lead bullets through them finding the sizing part of the die actually compressed the bullet reducing it's diameter.

Correct. I found using the FCD with .40 S&W with LSWC's to be a problem. However, the FCD works fine with jacketed bullets in 40 caliber.

 

[Rodentman]

I use only jacketed bullets (so far) in the 40, and am switching to (Missouri) lead in the 38. I will keep my eye on the crimping.

I shot my first batch of reloaded 40's today with only 1 feed failure and that was in the Kahr PM40. All fed and fired fine in the Sig 229. I am happy that they were successful! The guy next to me at the range was also shooting 40 so I got some extra brass!

 

[RustyFN]

The difference in the FCD die vs other crimp dies, and Lee's crimp only die, is the "post sizing" carbide ring in the die, which some think is the cats meow, and others think is a bandaid to proper reloading.

I understand about the post sizing ring. I'm questioning this.

with a quality set of dies such as Redding or RCBS since these dies have a built in crimper

Lee seating dies have a built in crimper the same as redding and RCBS.

or come with a separate crimp die to either roll or taper crimp.

That's exactly what the FCD is, a separate crimp die that will apply a taper or roll crimp depending on if you buy a auto or revolver set of dies. I haven't used a lot of different brands of dies, I have only used Lee and Dillon. I like the Lee dies better so I guess quality is in the eye of the user.
Rusty

 

[Borg]

I've had nothing but problems with it. It just won't do an even crimp around the mouth.
I cut one in half and found the problem,, the fingers of the collet/crimp doesn't have an even depth from one side to the other, so you get a crimp on one side of the case that goes to .047, then 180degs, it's ,017.
Not real good for accuracy
I have tried 4 of the in the same cal,, even sent them back to Lee, They told me to rotate the case 180 degs and crimp again,,,, NOT.
Borg

 

[Rodentman]

Rotate the case and crimp again. That's rich.

I will keep my eyes on this situation.

I try to crimp as lightly as possible, just as I try to flare the case mouth as little as needed to start the bullet inside the case for seating.

 

[SP Shop Foreman]

On cases like 44-40 a roll crimp actually expands (bulges) the entire case mouth area to the point that the cartridge won't fully chamber. The brass at the case mouth is too thin in that caliber, so a taper or swaging kind of crimp like the Lee works where a roll crimp wont.
We have no problem whatsoever with the Lee type crimp. Yours sounds like a mismanufactured one, Borg. Their answer was pretty lame.

Latigo

 

[ranger335v]

"The Lee FCD is basically unnecessary loading pistol or revolver with a quality set of dies such as Redding or RCBS since these dies have a built in crimper or come with a separate crimp die to either roll or taper crimp."

Unnecessary? Wellll...ok. But then again, not really. It's not quite that clear cut.

Many of us, perhaps most of us who seek optimum accuracy, prefer to crimp as a seperate step no matter what brand of dies are used to load the cartridges. When done as a seperate step it keeps the mouth of the cases from cutting into the bullets. So, any dedicated crimper does that quite nicely, that's why so many seperate crimpers are sold.

Use the FCD as a fix for poor reloading? Well, IF a bullet is oversized and bulges a thick walled case so much that, together, they won't chamber and may even lock up the firearm, using Lee's "after crimping" size ring fixes it. But that sure isn't always due to poor loading methods!

I DON'T mike every case for lenght or thickness, nor every bullet's diameter before I seat, nor does anyone else I know. Thus, I really like the assurance the Lee FCD's post-crimping size ring gives me that every pistol round WILL chamber and WILL feed. Even if it hurts accuracy a little by squeezing down the occasional over-sized bullet or excessive crimp bulge along with an odd-ball case!

FCDs? I like 'em, rifle and pistol.

 

[marcodo]

I'm with ranger on this one. Perhaps its poor technique to the master loader but for this simple reloader the FCD assures me my round chamber everytime. Seem to be most useful in my 45, 38/357, and 380. Never really needed it for my 9 mm. Not sure why that is.

 

[RyanM]

I got a factory crimp die because seat-and-crimp tended to bulge out the cases just beneath the mouth. It costs the same, or less than, some other brand of just crimp die, so why not get one that crimps and resizes? I don't use lead bullets (both my .40s have polygonal rifling). Maybe it's overkill, but that's better than ammo that won't chamber. Though actually, the bulged rounds chamber fine. They just look ugly and don't inspire much confidence.

 

[Walkalong]

I understand about the post sizing ring.

Then you understand the difference.

If you took offense to the fellow who said "with a quality set of dies such as Redding or RCBS", don't. It's their opinion.

The Lee FCD die is a little different in that the crimp part kind of floats on the o-ring vs being machined into the die body like RCBS Redding etc.

Lee dies work fine. They load good ammo. I have 3 or 4 sets. They are not machined as well in some areas as some other brands, but hey, they don't cost as much either.

Hopefully the OP got his answer.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I thought the Lee FCD was the bees nees when I started handloading. Then I learned quickly the faults of the design and now use the Redding profile crimp die exclusively. The only FCD die worth having is for rifles, in which the collet crimping is good but it lacks the post sizing operation of the handgun FCD.

 

[SSN Vet]

once again... Lee proves that using the same term (FCD, Classic Turret, etc...) to describe products that are very different only confuses and agitates their customers.

The FCD for pistol cartridges is completely different than the FCD for revolver cartridges. And both are completely different than the FCD for rifle cartridges....

FCD is effectively just a marketing term, like Whopper (more than one kind of Whopper out there) but customers seem to think it implies a specific mechanical feature.

From my limited perspective, the real questions are....

1.) Do you want to crimp in the same step as bullet seating, or do you want to crimp in a separate dedicated step.

Personally, I like crimping separately because I can tweak the crimp adjustment and not have to fiddle with the seating depth adjustment. Also, since I load "semi-progressive" on a 4-hole LCT press, I'd have to cycle through that station anyways, so crimping separately doesn't add any extra time or effort.

2.) Do you, or do you not want to post size your brass.

If you're loading cast lead (or possibly soft plated bullets??) in non-tapered semi-auto cartridges, it can cause problems.

3,) Do you like the Collet Squeeze type crimp on rifle cartridges or not.

Again, if your loading cast, it can cause problems.

It is what it is people. If it doesn't suite your specific requirements, use something else. If you don't like it, use something else.

Just because you don't see any merit in crimping in a separate step, doesn't mean that you need to continually bash the FCD and imply that everyone who uses it is stupid.

And just because you used a FCD for one application and didn't like the results, doesn't mean that the other types of FCD are junk.

Lee seems to apply the KISS principle to everything they do. This helps a lot of people get into reloading with successful results. But those who are going beyond the basics will likely find that Lee's product line doesn't meet they're every need.

 

[freakshow10mm]

The Lee FCD is not the talisman a lot of handloaders make it out to be.

 

[Walkalong]

Just because you don't see any merit in crimping in a separate step, doesn't mean that you need to continually bash the FCD and imply that everyone who uses it is stupid

The fact that it crimps in a seperate step is never what I have found fault with. I have said it crimps as well as any other, or at least good enough.

I have never called anyone who uses them stupid. I certainly hope I have never sounded like that.

The Lee FCD is not the talisman a lot of handloaders make it out to be.

Agreed. Thousands of reloaders got by without them for years, and loaded millions of rounds that worked just fine.

If you are loading for auto's, using mixed brass, and cheap as you can find bulk, sometimes a bit over sized, lead bullets, and don't want to check every bullet, or gauge all your loaded rounds, and can't afford a fat round that stops things during a competition, it can make sure your rounds chamber.

Other than that, it is mostly used, mostly unknowingly by many, to cover up mistakes that could be fixed by other, better, means.

The FCD carbide ring should just kiss an occasional round that is over Sammi Spec. That is, in theory, how it should work.

 

[SP Shop Foreman]

My reason for using it is because I don't want to hand RCBS $90 for a taper crimp die for the 44-40.
The brass at the 44-40 case mouths is typically so thin that the slightest attempt to roll crimp bulges the brass just beyond the ability to chamber in the cylinder.

Is there another solution for the 44-40?

Latigo

 

[Walkalong]

I don't want to hand RCBS $90

Understandable. If you want the cheaper solution, and don't want to post size, knock out the carbide ring. Some folks have done that.

 

[ranger335v]

Freak: "Then I learned quickly the faults of the design .."

Would you mind explaning the FCD design "faults" you found to be objectionable?

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SP: "The brass at the 44-40 case mouths is typically so thin that the slightest attempt to roll crimp bulges the brass ..."

SP, I have NO experiece with that round but I wonder if a crimp is really needed or even useful for it?

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Price being irrelivant to the crimper's function, and since the FCD post crimping carbide sizing ring ONLY touchs cartridges that are oversized, a properly made combo of case and bullet will never touch Lee's ring. Seems there isn't much point in knocking it out UNLESS you don't care if the occasional round is hard to chamber. ??

Actually, in some 45+ years of this, I've never found any brand of any tool to automatically guarentee good handloads. It seems that good reloading methods trump the die or press brand, every time!

 

[SP Shop Foreman]

If you don't want all of the remaining projectiles in the cylinder to slide back into the cases upon firing, it is.

SP

 

[Walkalong]

and since the FCD post crimping carbide sizing ring ONLY touchs cartridges that are oversized, a properly made combo of case and bullet will never touch Lee's ring.

If that was only true in the real world, but it isn't.

Actually, in some 45+ years of this, I've never found any brand of any tool to automatically guarantee good handloads. It seems that good reloading methods trump the die or press brand, every time!

I haven't been reloading that long, but I agree wholeheartedly.

We reloaded tens of thousands of quality rounds without problems for years before this little "godsend" was invented. How did we ever get by?