Lee load master?????

[hotwheelz]

I can get a deal on a lee load master { $100 with 2 tool heads and dies for .45 and 9mm plus the case feeder for both} from a friend who bought it sometime ago and has never used it. I have been loading on the dillon for a long time but Im thinking of picking it up just so i can compare.

I know the pro-1000 has the auto disc powder measure is it the same on the load master? If so is there anyway to change to a true powder measure?

I was looking on the lee web site does the bullet feeder work well? Is it worht the $?

Also Im sure there is one but I have another friend who has the pro-1000 and that thing spits primers all over the place is there some kind of catch system? I looked on midway and the lee site i cannot find it maybe you have a part # :banghead:

 

[wally]

I know the pro-1000 has the auto disc powder measure is it the same on the load master?

Yes.

If so is there anyway to change to a true powder measure?

Not unless you are clever enough to rig up some way to activate it, as the Loadmaster expects the powder thru expander die to activate the measure. Manually operating a powder measure on a progressive press is the best way I know to get really good with a squib rod at the range.

IMHO the Loadmaster case feeder is too clever by a half, but works great if I manually cycle the silder to feed the cases after the ram hits bottom (my crank slider broke so I've been doing this while awaiting its replacement). The case collimator is a must have to fill the tubes and manully working the case feeder is better than hand inserting into the shell plate.

I fail to see how handling the bullets to put them one by one into the tubes for the bullet feeder is faster than putting them one by one into the case for seating. Reviews are mixed at best if you check out Midway's customer ratings. The case collimater tube filling is where the case feeder wins big over manually handling the cases to put into the shell plate, without it, you are probably better off overall putting them in the shell plate manually.

I've not had any issues with the primer feeder so far, but I'm only set up for small pistol primers. You will have problems if you don't make full strokes of the handle -- so if something screws up you have to be careful to analize the issue and clear the fed but not seated primer. Also the rocker can jump off the slider nub leading you to cheerfully make primerless rounds. Although this can also be a feature to cut off the primer feed when clearing problems.

I think the Auto Disk powder measure works great for handgun loads. I'd suggest giving it a chance.

You need to bend a small piece of sheet metal to block the primers when inserting the primer tray -- Lee suggests a paper clip, I bent a scrap sheet metal strip into a right angle about 1/4" from the edge and ground it so it'd fit the channel to block the primers.

Spent primers are trapped in the ram, much better than Dillon's catch tray which leads the league in drops and fumbles You do have to remember to empty it and close the door afterwards, if you leave the door open you'll bend it on the next stroke and then have primers going everywhere.

HTH,
--wally.

 

[Steve Koski]

For $100, you could recover your $$ when you're done goofing around.

 

[Steve Koski]

Argh.

 

[strat81]

Why not replace the Lee powder measure and die with a Hornady? They have a case activated powder drop and companion die available. I'm not sure if it handles expansion like the Lee does.

FWIW, I use the Pro Auto Disk on my Turret and it's accurate enough. With common pistol powder like Titegroup or Power Pistol, I'll get +/- .1gr variations. The downside is the "steps" for the way the discs work. But even that is mitigated with the adjustable charge bar.

As Koski said, for $100, you can just resell it for the same price if you don't like it.

 

[jfh]

There is a wealth of support for the Load-Master.

I got mine out this Spring after eight years or so. The last time I had used it, I had been ready to give up on it.

This time, I started with a complete disassembly and cleanup. Then, from links I found here, I watched the videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Lee+LoadMaster

Between these videos and the support / help videos found on the Lee site, you should be good to go--here's the Lee support / video page:

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

I now have it running smoothly. I think there were a few things I figured out about its use:

1. Most people have trouble with consistent operation with both the primer feed and the case feed. The youtube videos go a long way towards solving all those problems. Pay close attention to the setup and lubrication techniques for the case feeder. The primer subsystem is the weak link, IMO. Personally, I would set it up for one primer size, and not change out routinely. And, the "shaker" technique is not long-term reliable, so be prepared to shake manually, or do parts replacement for the 'vibrator' function to work properly.

2. The second thing I did that helped a lot was change over the die sets to a five-die setup. That is, I do decapping only in station one, and resizing in station 2. The use of a resizing die in station two basically keeps alignment of the case so the primer feed works well.

3. I even added a bullet feeder, and tweaked that to get it running smoothly. However, I don't think it is a worthy addition--Wally's comment is that the bullet feed really isn't a time saver, and I concur.

4. Note that Lee has an upgrade kit for the powder measure, so that you can use the manual-pullback system for a (Lee) powder measure that has the spring-return operation. Again, following the youtube video, and the one at the Lee site, will help you with this. The positive-pullback feature is probably an important one. I use ONLY an adjustable charge bar, I have used it with AA 5, AA7, 231, TiteGroup, Power Pistol, V.N350, and it works fine with all of them--I can reliably make one-tenth grain adjustments. Only the fineness of #7 is problematic--that will leak, even with the upgrade to the latest Powder Measure version.

To run a Load-Master, you do need to be inclined to troubleshoot; you cannot just start pulling the handle. Given the price differential between it and the other high-volume presses, I'm willing to do that--and I like problem-solving like this anyway. One can easily run 300-400 rounds an hour through this machine, once it is running smoothly and if you are prepped to do it.

I will note that I have used it little recently. I don't consider a progressive press the best way to work up loads (load development, or small batches with different charges). If you shoot less than 200 rounds per week, keep in mind that a Lee turret will average about 180-240 rounds per hour once you get the hang of it. Once I get the recipes sorted out again for my various handguns and want to produce ammo for them--i.e., feed the 1911s, in both .45ACP and 10mm--the Load-Master is ideal.

Check out those videos. And do a search here on "LoadMaster"--there's lots of us who will help.

Jim H.

 

[TheFrenchCanadian]

I absolutely agree with jfh's post.

I'm a newbie at reloading, and I started out with a loadmaster last March. I'm pretty mechanically inclined (one of my hobbies is motorcycle mechanics, among other things...), so I decided to start with a progressive. I wanted to reload 9mm, & planned to reload around 5k a year or so.

I had a lot of small hang ups in the beginning (first 1k rounds or so), but I kept at it and one by one cured my problems. Once I found the youtube videos, and reset everything (setting it up as a 5 die press like jfh mentioned), everything kinda came together and I've loaded the last 2k rounds or so without problems. I haven't so much as had to to reset anything since then. I've just been re-filling the primer tray & case feeder and crankin' out reliable ammo.

As long as you accept that you may have to spend a little time head scratching in the beginning, until you get it set up right, I'm sure you won't be dissapointed, especially for $100. As mentioned, I'm sure you could easily get your money back in the future if you found the press really wasn't for you.

Oh, and I've yet to spit one used primer out - they all end up in the hollow ram...

Take care,
TFC

 

[RustyFN]

When you get the Lee running smooth and sell the Dillon look at all of the components you can buy.
Rusty

 

[BigSlick]

Nice press, for what it is, but you already have a Dillon.

I would spend the money on primers or other components.

.02

 

[45auto]

I have to say what a lot of non-Lee reloaders are thinking.

If the Loadmaster is that much "effort" and you have to go beyond the "factory", to get it to run...why doesn't Lee make some changes to the machine?

Or, am I missing something!

 

[jfh]

The only thing you may be missing is some speculation about a family business.

"Lee Precision is a family owned and operated business. Our specialty is making the best possible product at an affordable price. The Lee family has been providing affordable reloading products since 1958. Our great prices come from patented innovative designs. Richard Lee our retired founder holds more reloading tool patents than anyone dead or alive."​

There is still a "generational transfer" going on with the business, and I suspect that the founder's 'strong personality'--read "Modern Reloading"-- as well as family dynamics have a bearing on how products are updated and new products are introduced.

My own speculation is that John Lee (son / second generation) is doing things about as fast as he can. He's introduced two new presses--the Classic Cast single stage and the Classic Cast turret--and an important four-die paradigm in the latter. My own guess is that a four-die progressive will be in the offering as well, in the near future.

They have done some updates to the Load-Master--I now have a factory-made case inserter with a radiused top, and the action rod for the case feed assembly was given a different coating as time passed. To adequately correct the "vibration" problem for the primer feed might take a change to the chassis molds, however.

Jim H.

 

[45auto]

Jim H.,

Makes sense.

 

[wally]

To adequately correct the "vibration" problem for the primer feed

What is the primer feed vibration problem?

I recently got a Loadmaster in .40S&W and while the case feeder slider crank broke the first time I moved the handle, the case feeder works well when I manually activate the slider. Be interesting to see if it works as well automatically when the new crank slider gets here.

The primer feeder hasn't given any problems yet, although admittidely only a couple of humdred rounds. I think for $215 complete (with case collimater) this thing will work out well now that I'm shooting enough .40S&W to be too time-consuming on the Classic Turret (leaves little time to do the 10mm .38Special etc.) but not enough to justify another Dillon or LnL. Even if I have to cycle the case feeder by hand, its still an improvement over the manual case feed of my Projector/Pro-7 (predacessor to the LnL, I forget which is the oldest, had both, retired the oldest after replacing the primer subsystem once when it started screwing up again. I saved the common parts as the one I'm still using is starting to have indexing problems and the adjustments are about at their limits) which is dedicated to 9mm.

--wally.

 

[jfh]

The primer problem in general is that, unless the primer feed subsystem is kept quite clean, primers will not feed consistently onto the primer seater. Further, if one gets a partial insertion just once, the nylon head components are liable to be damaged when the off-center primer is pushed up. Then it is a mess, and simply will not feed the primers consistently, if at all. Once the damage has occurred, one simply has to take the subassembly out, replace the damaged parts and clean it, and then reassemble. That is a PITA.

This is why the 5th-die usage is so important. It virtually eliminates misalignment of the case primer pocket with the primer and anvil / head assembly and minimizes the liklihood of primer part damage. See the you-tube videos.

Combine this characteristic--parts liable to be damaged-- with the disassembly process needed to clean and fix the primer subassembly, and it has the makings of great operator frustration--people who buy progressives tend to want to crank out ammo, not lovingly watch precision ammo being made in about ten steps being performed with one pull of the crank.

If the tray, trough, etc. is clean--and possibly lubricated with some dry graphite--then the tray vibration will feed the primers into the trough and on down into the head assembly consistently and repeatedly. The vibration is provided in two ways and affected by a third element: the first is by the contact with the trough arm that rubs against the nubs on the frame back; the second is by that vertical "pencil" that pushes against the arm to help assure contact with the vibrator nubs on the frame. Finally, the wire clip that ties the tray to the trough helps stiffen the assembly to make the vibration more effective.

With usage--extended usage--what happens is that 1) operators tend to leave off the wire clip, simply because it is a PITA; 2) The trough cover arm 'nubs' that contact the frame wear relatively quickly; 3) even the (cast metal) frame nubs get worn; and 4) the tolerances in the whole assembly make the routine vibratory movement too 'soft' to guarantee feed into the trough and down the trough as well.

Some longer-term fixes Lee could implement include 1) using a harder nylon / plastic cover for the frame contact nubs, so the wear occurs more slowly; 2) redoing the frame mold to provide bigger / longer nubs, and 3) possibly tighten up the tolerances in the subassembly attachment to the carrier plate. The KISS solution may be to simply increase that 'pencil' diameter or offset to simply push the trough contact against the frame nub more firmly. I'll investigate doing that when I start using the Load-Master more. For now, I just make a point to flick the tray with a finger while I check the trough for fed primers--and I do that nearly every stroke of the handle.

Jim H.

 

[wally]

Mine shakes the tray very well on the way up and down. I don't see any wire clip, unless its under the shell plate which I've not removed. Maybe they've made changes already? Time will tell how it holds up

Reading of the problems, I got a spare primer assembly so I could just swap it out, was less than $20. Also got the universal decapper die to help with priming -- so I did do my homework before taking a chance on it.

I also got the Dillon spare parts kit with my XL650, as I don't want to be down until an order arrives if possible.

Even with the broken crank slider its pretty effective to hit the case feeder with the right hand while the left hand inserts a bullet. This is pretty much how my Pro-7 works, except its insert the case with the left, insert the bullet with the right. If the new crank slider doesn't fix the problem or it ends up being more trouble than its worth, I may give the bullet feeder a try. Dump in the cases to the collimator to fill the tubes, fill the bullet tubes, operate the handle with the left hand leaving the right hand to pump the case feeder at the bottom of the stroke and standing off to the right gives a better view of all the key operations. So I have a fall back plan

I'm not sure what this "pencil" thing you are refering to is, There is a vertical "cone" hanging down from the right side of the press but is purpose is to active the primer feed arm and time it with respect to the primer seater activation and shell plate wedge lock.

--wally.

 

[jfh]

Wally: The wire clip I am referring to 'connects' the primer tray to the trough. It goes from the tray 3 o'clock hole over to the trough top. It may be an option from an update--I don't recall.

In addition to the spare primer kit, get extra parts of the primer sliders (small or large). Those are the ones buggered up by a misfed primer, and you have to have the right-sized one in place. P/N LM3252 is the large number; also have a spare LM3151 on hand.

My 'vertical pencil' description is your 'cone'--and you are correct in your description of its operation. However, if it were longer, could also serve to push the trough contact nubs over against the frame contacts. I'll be getting going again with the Load-Master this winter, and probably before; then I'll tackle the vibrator problem again.

I tried a case collator with the bullet tubes--the problem is, the bullets do not reliably fall in base first--and, it really can't be done on the press, because of the weight involved; you have to fill the tubes on the bench unless you drop them in one at a time. If you try it, post your solution to quick and easy filling.

One of the youtube videos shows a L-M doing a cyclic rate of about 16 rounds per minute with manual insertion--with .40S&W, IIRC. Assuming an easy cyclic rate of 8 rounds a minute, that means the bullet tubes would need to be filled or replaced (with prepped tubes) about every ten minutes--and if you can't fill the tubes on the press with a collator, it defeats the process. IMO.

Jim H.

 

[davinci]

buy it, then resell it for $100 plus shipping to some fella here....
or part it out and trade it for components....

 

[wally]

My 'vertical pencil' description is your 'cone'--and you are correct in your description of its operation. However, if it were longer, could also serve to push

Thanks for clarifying, but if it was longer it'd mess up the timing of the primer ram.

I did also order spare primer sliders.

I'm only interested in the bullet feeder if I give up on the case feeder which works well manually. New crank slider was in the mail today, will try it tonight and see how it works out. The case collimator works well on the press, at least with .40S&W cases.

--wally.

 

[Steve Koski]

Hotwheelz: Buy the LM and see if you like it better than your Dillon. If you sell off your Dillon, you could start a massive stampede to the red side by those who can recognize the better "value."

 

[jfh]

Wally: re the case feeder--

1. See the youtube videos--they have tweaks there that are invaluable.

2. STP for lubricant is clearly part of a long-term consistency solution for it.

Does your slider have the arched front (not angled, but rounded)?

Jim H.

 

[wally]

The replacement slider looks exactly like the one that came with the press that broke on the first handle movement Installed it and cases fed perfectly! Knocked out 100 rounds in about 8 minutes with only two operator errors -- a .357SIG case had found its way amoungst my .40 brass and tipped over when its time to feed came. Was easier to recover here than when a .40S&W got mixed in with my .45ACP in the Dillon XL650 case feeder -- although this was not as big a deal as I feared it might be when I first got the press. The other error was I got such a good groove going I forgot to rotate the case feeder tube when the third one ran out feeding in two empty shell plate rotations. This recovered automatically as soon as I rotated more cases into position.

I've also let the case feeder in the Dillon run dry to the same result -- except the Dillon spits out the unused primer into chute, the Loadmaster doesn't feed a primer if no case is in the shell plate. The Dillon is so fast it'd be a disaster without the low primer alarm


We'll see how it holds up but sure looks like it'll easily meet my needs for loading .40S&W and leave plenty of time for my oddball calibers on the Classsic Turret. SInce I usually shoot two or three times the .45 as 40 or 9mm my Dillon won't get lonely My Hornady Pro-7 meets my 9mm needs nicely.

I didn't see any wire clips on the replacement small primer feeder assembly I'd ordered from Midway, so maybe they've tweaked things, might be worth $19 + shipping to try a current one if yours still has issues, but then I don't have the large primer feed assembly.

Wally: re the case feeder--

1. See the youtube videos--they have tweaks there that are invaluable.

I did before I ordered it, they are what made me decide to risk $215 before buying another XL650 and moving the case feeder attachment back and forth.

--wally.

 

[hotwheelz]

I got the press and I will setting it up this weekend. Im looking forward to figuring out this new machine I have allways been a tinker. Maybe Ill be "Dillon Lee" kinda guy in the next few weeks.

 

[wrangler5]

Speaking to Lee factory folks a year or so ago about a Loadmaster part, one of them confided that their equipment usually worked best for folks who were somewhat mechanically inclined. That just confirmed my impression from 25+ years of using their presses, starting with the original (3-hole) turret press.

The wire clip being mentioned has been part of the Loadmaster primer feed system from the start (I got one within about a year of its release) and, as best I can tell, is intended to keep the lid of the primer tray from rotating and lifting off its locking lugs during the course of 100 runs up and down the press. The wire clip comes with the complete primer feed set - I think it's considered part of the primer tray/lid setup, not the chute. BTW, I just use the hooked end of this wire clip to hold back the primers as I insert the tray into the top of the chute - then just clip the lid down tight with it.

The case collator for filling the case tubes is a real stroke of genius EXCEPT that mine will allow 9mm Luger and shorter cases (I also reload 9x18 and 9x17) go in upside down if there is pressure from a bunch of other cases behind. I have NEVER had a longer case go in upside down no matter how many other cases are in the collator (I load for 38, 357, 44 Mag & 45 Colt revolvers and a carbine) and 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim are heavy enough at the rim that they simply won't tip rim-up into the tubes. BUT 9mm WILL. A Lee engineer opined that it would take a slightly smaller opening in the case collator to keep the 9mm cases from tipping in wrong way up, and that that would require a new mold which they were not inclined to invest in.

Has anybody else experienced this problem, and if so, have you found a solution? I've thought of getting another collator and turning some brass bushings to reduce the size of the 4 holes, but don't really have the time or equipment to do the job right. Any thoughts?

(BTW, since the 9mm case feeding is a nuisance, it is not enough to make me want to switch to another brand of press. I couldn't replace the capability I have in the Lee with Dillon for less than about $1200, last time I checked - it's the powder measures on each head that kill 'ya in Blue.)

 

[jfh]

thanks for checking in with the 'wire clip' history, wrangler. Not that you say it, I recall that 'reason,' too. You and I purchased our Load-Masters at about the same time, I think.

As for the collator usage: If one follows Lee's newest usage instructions--e.g., only dump in twelve or so at a time, with your fingers in the holes, it seems to work OK. However, the inverted case problem still remains for 9mm like you suggested, and if one is impatient (fill the collator up and shake, quickly), even .45ACPs are occasionally inverted.

Somebody, somewhere, did come up with a solution--I saw it once, and now I can't find it. Essentially, they epoxied a spool-type button to the collator center, and that prevented inversion. IIRC, they had to tweak that a bit--e.g., the height needs to be so-so, and the upper rim needs to be so-so, that kind of thing, so I haven't charged ahead to do it. A patient google will probably find that page, and I haven't gotten around to that yet.

Like you, I like the cost-benefit ratio of the Lee processes. If dies are a constant for changes, and turrets are about $12.00 or so, then quick changeouts are really economical. Further, the latest auto-disk setups (the new top / hopper / elastomer valve shutoff detail) make powder changes fairly easy. If they'd tackle the details on that package, they could make it fast as well.

Jim H.

 

[45auto]

Speaking to Lee factory folks a year or so ago about a Loadmaster part, one of them confided that their equipment usually worked best for folks who were somewhat mechanically inclined.

Ha, that's why companies like Dillon exist!

At least they know it...that's half the battle...maybe!