Lefties and 1911's

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WheelMan

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for "serious" use I prefer CZ's and their brethren. But I'd really like a 1911 for "fun" (yeah, I heard about the CZ 1911, neato).

Anyway, one of the things that steered me away from 1911's and towards CZ's is that I'm left handed. I prefer just being able to draw and shoot as opposed to messing with a saftey on the wrong side of the gun. Also CZ slide releases and magazine controls seem easier to work with my left index finger.

Really the problem is cocked and locked carry, it's not lefty friendly (I don't want an ambi saftey). So maybe something else is in order. I could carry condition 2 but I'd like to retain one-handed operation. It occured to me that "back in the day" the 1911 was largly an evolution to the .45 colt single action revolver (both the ammo and the pistol). This caused me to wonder "why not tube loaded hammer down?" I don't have a 1911 to play with, so a couple questions for you 1911 gurus.

Does the hammer rest on the firing pin when down?
I'm thinking I can thumbcock with my left thumb nearly as quickly and surley as I could disengage a saftey right handed. Any thoughts on this? I was concerned that I could touch the thing off before I got my thumb out of the way of the slide, but the grip saftey should prevent discharge until my hand is back in position (hey, is that the original intention of the grip saftely?) Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
 
Well, on a series 80 Colt or a II series Kimber you have a firing pin safety making hammer down carry fairly safe. There's also the seer catch "half cock" that will float the hammer just above the pin but I hear this can be hard on seers. 1911Tuner is probably the best person to answer this question.

When I rented a Kimber a while back I tried shooting it left handed and found all of the controls to be usable left handed and I could even release the slide or drop the mage one handed without change my grip which wasn't possible right handed. I could even release the safety although it threw my grip of a little in the process. YMMV, if possible you might do what I did and rent one.
 
I wouldn't feel comfortable lowering the hammer on a live round unless I had a clearing barrel handy.

Regards,
Happyguy:D
 
You can get an ambi 1911 and have the left-side paddle ground off.

As a lefty, I think the gun is better suited for us than our right-handed friends: mag release and slide catch (for those times we don't slingshot) are just a trigger finger touch away.

As for the firing pin question, look for a gun that's "CA Approved" :)rolleyes: ). This is a drop test to make sure the FP doesn't rest on the cartridge or will impact when dropped.
 
I'm thinking I can thumbcock with my left thumb nearly as quickly and surley as I could disengage a saftey right handed.
Click to expand...

If you believe that you are completely unfamiliar with the working and operation of the 1911 style pistol in "condition 1" carry.

The thumb safety is disengaged from a full, firing grip with a ergonomic downward motion of the thumb. This can be accomplished as the weapon is brought up to fire and as a consequence no time is lost bringing the gun into action.

Cocking the hammer with your left thumb while firing left handed means you would completely loose your firing grip trying to reach the hammer. As it is not a "natural" motion the possibility of slipping and allowing the hammer to fall to half-cock, or worse yet actually fire the round if your palm happened to have pinned the grip safety, would have to be considered safety problems. Once the hammer was cocked you would have to re-acquire a firing grip before shooting. All this takes considerably more time than simply dis-engaging the thumb safety.

Better to carry with the chamber empty and hope you have two free hands and the time to chamber a round.
 
If you believe that you are completely unfamiliar with the working and operation of the 1911 style pistol in "condition 1" carry.
Click to expand...

Well I am familiar (but not terribly experinced) with the operation of a 1911, if you must know. I made a very deliberate use of the word "nearly" there, indicating I realize it can't be as fast or easy but might approach that level of use with practice.
 
Why the 1911 world does not recognize us lefties, is a total mystery to me.
You either have to pay big, big bucks to get one with the ambi safety or pay big extra bucks to get one installed or, get a Charles Daly EFS like I did and enjoy all the benies for small bucks.

flame away 1911 experts....:neener:
 
Big, big bucks? All you have to do is install an ambi safety. Many gunsmiths can do it for you for under $100 installed. Like Larry said, if you don't want a lever on the opposite side simply grind the thumb shelf off.
 
Buy a Wilson ambi safety for 60 bucks and install it in 1/2 hour.

I have in the past carried a non-ambi gun, I just pulled it with the left hand in a firing grip and brought the right thumb in from the top to disengage the safety before rolling it down into its firing grip. Picture this, place your thumb on top of the safety with your right index finger fwd. and parallel with the slide. Push safety down and then rotate right hand clockwise as viewed from the back with the right thumb transcribing a small arc overtop the slide. This is best accomplished by having your hands meet on your body centerline with the pistol canted 45deg to the right. Push safety off and roll gun to vertical/right hand around as described while extending out on target. I can do this fairly well having practiced it.

or, get a Charles Daly EFS like I did and enjoy all the benies for small bucks.
Click to expand...

Well, not a flame, but I had one Chuck and I put 5K rounds through it in six months. First thing to break was the ambi safety we are discussing. Then the barrel bushing cracked. Between all that it never would feed 100%. Let me know how it goes when you get a serious round count through the thing. I never did, sold it quick.
 
Gurus?

T'was asked:

Tube loaded hammer down?" I don't have a 1911 to play with, so a couple questions for you 1911 gurus.

Hammer down on a hot chamber is used a lot, but it's dangerous because
it requires lowering the hammer on a live round. It can be done safely, but
sooner or later, Murphy WILL make his presence known. I advise using
something that will stop a bullet for the operation. It doesn't have to be
elaborate. A two-foot thick stack of old newspapers will do. The safest
way is to reach over the top of the hammer spur with the off hand and grasp it between the thumb and index finger. Push it back slightly to make sure that you have the hammer under control, and pull the trigger. Lower
the hammer slowly. Practice the move cold until you can lower it 50 times in
a row without losing the hammer...and use a bullet stop when you go hot.
------------------------------------------------
Does the hammer rest on the firing pin when down?

Yes, but it's an inertial pin...that is, the pin is shorter than the channel
and must be driven forward with force to hit the primer. You could lower the hammer on a live round, and beat on the spur with a lead hammer
and not cause the pistol to fire.
-------------------------------------------

I'm thinking I can thumbcock with my left thumb nearly as quickly and surley as I could disengage a saftey right handed.

Maybe as quickly, but probably not as surely...at least not under stress. There is always the chance of your thumb slipping off the hammer spur, but unless the trigger is held rearward, the sear will be captured by the
half-cock notch on the hammer before it can fall to the firing pin. Not
good for the sear, but better than an AD/ND. It would also be as quick
to carry the pistol in Condition 3...Loaded mag with an empty chamber,
and ready it via the Israeli Method. Present the gun Gansta Style...
rotated 90 degrees and rack the slide as it comes to eye/shoulder level, and turning it back to vertical as you get a two-handed grip. This would negate being able to put it into play one-handed, in the event of a disabled
arm or having the weak-side hand tied up fending off a close attack.
-------------------------------------------


Any thoughts on this? I was concerned that I could touch the thing off before I got my thumb out of the way of the slide, but the grip saftey should prevent discharge until my hand is back in position (hey, is that the original intention of the grip saftely?) Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

Thumb-cocking won't let you touch off a round unless the trigger is pulled
or the half cock has been removed. The grip safety blocks trigger movement only, and has nothing to do with whether the hammer will
reach the firing pin.

Installing an ambi-safety isn't all that complicated if you take your time and
ask for some instructions. It's mainly a matter of patience and trial and error in many cases. Remember to file the hammer and sear pins flat
on the right side of the gun so that the starboard side of the safety will lay flat against the frame. Many fail to do this, and while the safety will work,
it puts an uneven load on the safety cross-pin and can lead to a loose or
broken coupling.

I have a friend who is a southpaw, and has never used an ambi safety on any of his 1911s. He's mastered wiping the safety off with the index finger of his firing hand just as the hand goes to the grip. This means that the gun is cocked and UN-locked in the holster, and he must be very careful
to keep his finger clear of the trigger as the pistol is drawn, but he practices
it relentlessly, and always begins his session in slow-motion, gradually
increasing the speed of the draw. He is nearly as fast as I am with this method, and has never had an unintentional or early discharge at the range. It does require dedication and discipline, though. He uses the second distal joint to hit the paddle instead of the finger tip, and rotates his hand to get a grip on the gun with the index finger staying straight until the pistol is on target.

All that being said, let me add that I don't advise lowering the hammer on a live round, though wheelgunners do it as a matter of course. Be acutely
aware of where the muzzle is looking. A slug through the foot ain't a joke on the operatin' table.

Luck to ya!

Tuner
 
Block the Pin

Wheelman said:

I thought it blocked the pin as well, thanks

Only if you have a Series 2 Kimber or a deviant that uses the same type
of firing pin block...The Swartz system, (sp?) which was examined and tested by the US Government soon after WW2 and rejected. The system
has had some varying reports, and doesn't seem to be very reliable across
the board

Springfields, Colt Series 70, Pre-Series 80, Series 80, Para Ordnance, Rock River, Systema, Norinco, Original Kimbers,and all USGI 1911s' grip safeties work as I described, that is, they don't block the firing pin or the hammer.

Series 80 Colts and Para Ordnance pistols block the pin until the trigger is
pulled.

Not sure of the Daly and DWA pistols, since I haven't seen one in the flesh yet.

Luck!

Tuner
 
i'm a lefty and my primary CCW is a 1911.

i,use an ambi-thumb safety.

mag and slide release are operated by my
trigger finger.

not at all hard to manipulate
with a little practice;)

just my $.02

clown
 
IIRC, a company named Randall made mirror version 45 autos. That's right, left handed. Would be interested to know if magazine was backwards to, i.e., worked from the right side? Slide stop?
 
Randal Southpaw 1911

IIRC, a company named Randall made mirror version 45 autos. That's right, left handed. Would be interested to know if magazine was backwards to, i.e., worked from the right side? Slide stop?

BigG...Yep. Everything was mirror image, right down to the direction that the recoil springs were wound, and the magazines were proprietary to the gun. I'd say that a standard magazine could probably be modified to work if a fella was determined enough.

I've handled two of the Randals, neither one of which was very impressive
in the fitting, though they both functioned well.
 
There's a bit of flawed logic in your post.


You say you want a 1911, but you don't want to make the 1911 work for you, or deal with any of the differences the 1911 has in relation to your CZ.


If you get a 1911 and don't modify it with the addition of an ambi safety, and learn the correct way to use it, you won't like it. Seriously.
 
I'm a lefty with a Kimber with an ambi-safety. Love it and carry it on a daily basis with a thumb break holster. I thought at 1st it would be just my fun gun and one for home protection, but it goes with me daily and is the only auto (ok 'cept the mark II) that I shoot more accurate than a revolver.
 
Why the 1911 world does not recognize us lefties, is a total mystery to me.
Click to expand...

Randall used to make southpaw 1911s. Try to find a used one, if you can't make the right-handed model work for you.
 
As a right-handed person who has installed ambidexterious safeties on every 1911 style pistol I have owned since 1978 it's a win-win proposition.

The right side control has never gotten in the way of normal operation and it's a heck of a lot easier to shoot left handed with one.
 
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