Legalzing guns and drugs

Your postition on my idea

  • Strongly disagree

    Votes: 48 17.8%
  • Disagree

    Votes: 26 9.6%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 17 6.3%
  • Agree

    Votes: 48 17.8%
  • Strongly agree

    Votes: 131 48.5%

  • Total voters
    270
Status
Not open for further replies.
A gun is a tool, a drug is not.

Really? Next time you get a cavity filled at the dentist, I'll be expecting you to refuse any tools the doc offers to relieve pain then.




Oh, wait. You really didn't mean that then? Huh. What a strange coincidence. Some people misuse guns too, which are useful tools to the vast majority of society.
 
Drug users, dealers and manufactures are a drain on society as a whole.

To me drugs and the users, dealers and manufactures are in about the same class as Ground squirrels, P Dogs, Ground Hogs ect... and should be treated as such.

Exactly! Jack Daniels Distillery, Henry Weinhardts, I.G. Farben... they're all a scourge on society!

Enough, I say! We should make a constitutional amendment to ban the use of alcohol and those awful narcotics! It's for the children!
 
Not sure really how guns really relate to drugs or how you see them lumped into the same category........pretty different issues to me.

Anyhow.....I'm sorta in the middle-ish on this topic. Guns, ya sure for almost all of them.

I really believe marijuana should be legal. I know too many people who smoke it (illegally) and in every other way are very law abiding, good hard working people, just like the people I know who have a couple drinks when they come home. (Like me right now. :))

Other drugs.......I'm not so sure it would be good to legalize them. These other drugs really do change the personality of some one who uses alot. Meth seems to be the worst, creating pretty much psychopaths out of regular users. But the other heavy drugs can really take over peoples lives in bad ways an make them do things they other wise would not.

Even if legal these drugs will still cost money.....if some one is strung out on meth or heroin they probably are not working.....so where does the money come from? Crime.

Its a very imperfect system we have but I think society MAY be better off keeping the "heavy" drugs illegal.
 
Guns, drugs, and immigrants. It's what the dang country was built on, and I don't see why any should be illegal.

Other drugs.......I'm not so sure it would be good to legalize them.

Cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine all have GOOD medical uses.

You've never seen a better argument for heroin than a burn ward. You can give those poor souls enough dilaudid to kill an uninjured person and they're still screaming in pain. Heroin would help greatly, and there are quite a few doctors who agree.

As for cocaine, I'd sure like it if coca was legal - I've been having problems with altitude sickness recently. Quite to my surprise, my doctor recently said (I'm going to paraphrase) "I truly wish that coca leaves were legal here. They would be about the best medicine I could have you take." I'm currently taking expensive, ineffective, side-effect-heavy medication.

As for methamphetamine, it is currently used along with amphetamine to treat ADHD, extreme cases of obesity, and even narcolepsy.

Yes, all drugs can be abused and misused, just like all guns, just like alcohol and tobacco. It's an odd country we have, in regards to the laws...
 
Like Communism and McCarthyism in the 1950s, the government has used propaganda and boogimen to gain support in order to trample American civil liberties for the preceding generations as well.

The Republicans have their War On Drugs and War On Terror and use them to infringe on 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment rights. Witness the increase in no-knock warrants and the increasing ease of electronic surveillance due to the PATRIOT Act.

The Democrats, of course, have made it their mission to attack the 2nd Amendment.

In each case, the threat it exaggerated or made up completely, safety is promised, in return for individual liberty. And, as history has taught us, in each case, the promises are broken, the government offers only the illusion of safety, and their failure is self-fulfilling and requires you to forfeit yet more of your liberties. Like Prohibition, the problems created turn out to be far greater than the original threat, and individual freedoms are rarely restored to full, even if the policy is abandoned.

It's amazing how many have selective hearing with these issues. I simply do not understand how this trend can be so blatantly obvious to the vast majority of members here concerning the issue of gun control, but many of these same members fail to see how the same trend applies to drugs, or how the Red Scare of my grandfather's generation has turned into the War On Terror.

Maybe if some would take off the blinders that force them to ignore blunders related to party affiliation, we could acknowledge the mistakes of the present, as well as the past. And maybe in doing so, we could actually learn from these mistakes and prevent the next generation from repeating them?

Or we could hide behind labels and various lies, point fingers, put those same fingers in our ears, and "la-la" the opposing arguments out, ignoring the fact that while some of you proudly claim the title "Republican" or "Democrat," others of us just want to be free and live our own lives.

To me, that means if I want to carry a .45 on my hip, I should be able to until such a time as it can be proven by the State that I have injured another, and in doing so, abused my right. And if my neighbor wants to toke up or snort an 8-ball, he should be able to until such a time as it can be proven by the State that he has injured another, and in doing so, abused his right. Live and let live is simple. Live your life, let others do the same. Combine this with the Golden Rule, and it is amazing what you can accomplish.


Okay...wow, just wow. I posted the above then started to read through the other posts. I made it about two pages, and that was all the quixotic, naivety and B.S. I could stand.

First off, robbery and murder would still be illegal, even if drugs were legalized. Those are activities almost universally recognized in every culture as unacceptable behaviors. Recreational drug use, on the other hand, is almost universally accepted, on some level. It is here, so don't kid yourself.

Secondly, people are using the very negative effects of the War on Drugs and blaming them on the drugs to support the war. People break into houses for meth money because meth is illegal. This doesn't decrease the demand so much as control, or at least attempt to control, the supply, which as any ECON101 student can tell you, artifically inflates the price. Think about how much the price of alcohol increases during Prohibition. Prohibition didn't stop the demand. The demand was met by an underground market, with huge profits for those willing to accept the risk. Now days alcohol is legal, so the crime associated with its trade as an illegal substance has almost completely evaporated. Moonshine stills have been replaced with meth labs and pot fields, though, and these substances are still illegal enough to have a good deal of crime associated with their distribution.

Thirdly, alcohol is legal. That doesn't mean a doctor can preform surgery drunk. That doesn't mean it is legal to drive under the influence. Alcohol is still abused--lives are still ruined, crimes are still associated with its use--but drive-bys carried out by competing alcohol distributors are no longer prevalent. Since its legalization, as hostile as the alcohol trade has gotten is Super Bowl commercials. And I've never been able to drive up to a drive through and request a Jack and Coke (super sized, of course) with my Big Mac, and I doubt seriously if legalizing drugs would allow me to order a side order of coke, a Coke, large fries, and double quarter pounder with cheese.

Some of you people have bitten government Drug War propaganda hook line and sinker. But it's not too late. You can still think for yourself. Common sense applies to this issue as much as it does to gun control.
 
They are a systematic plague on society, fair and simple. The problem isnt the illegality of them as it is what it does to you. I've seen what happens when you do meth. my cousin lost his car, girlfriend, got demoted in his job, got his license suspended, fell into about 15,000 in debt, and looked like Gollum from Lord of the Rings after about six months.

There's no question about how bad some drugs are but our laws aren't doing much to stop anyone from using them. People that are smart enough to just say no even if it was legal horay! Good for you. I doubt many people will go out and try hardcore drugs just because they're legal.
 
Part of the idea for legalizing, per history, is that the addicts and other users* tend towards less dangerous forms of the drug when it's legal.

For example, they'd use cocaine instead of crack. Opium instead of Heroin, etc...

Legalize MJ, cocaine, heroin/opium, and LSD and I'd imagine that you wouldn't see much meth use. Meth use originally started and increased in rural areas where law enforcement actually managed to suppress the import of the aforementioned drugs.

There's little profit motive for a drug store to do something like try to get somebody(especially a minor) addicted. Especially if you treat the drugs like alcohol/tobacco, and limit advertising.

Why? The addict can go somewhere else for his fix. Drop the cost by an order of magnitude, and he doesn't need to steal to get it. If he does, toss him into jail/rehab.

*We have a problem today that the government has changed the definition of 'addict' to ANYBODY who does an illegal drug. I disagree.
 
Working hard to find words, "The needs for the people to stay buzzed, useless to society, and a burden on all citizens, the right to recreational pharmaceuticals shall not be infringed," in the BoR. But try as I might, I can't find it.

Very BIG MISTAKE to link the two. And we wonder why we are being pushed out of the mainstream. We make it so easy for the mainstream to push us out.
 
I'm all for it, perhaps we can let some people out of jail whose only crime is injuring themselves and start keeping the bad guys who do real harm to others locked up.

Not sure really how guns really relate to drugs or how you see them lumped into the same category........pretty different issues to me.
I thought he was just illustrating how drug control laws and gun control laws are both ineffective and that we waste time and money trying to make both fix the problems of society.
 
Reading this thread was eye-opening. It's very funny to see the anti-drug propaganda at work.

If big brother comes out next week and plays commercials of people going crazy over toothpaste and wants to outlaw toothpaste, I'm sure a lot of people in this thread will tell us how toothpaste impairs judgement, causes death and addiction, etc.

I wonder how many of our founding fathers used illicit substances? I know Ben Franklin used E regularly (it was in liquid form and in those days used to enhance the mind). Somewhere I read that the majority of the US farming industry was dedicated to hemp... until it was outlawed.

How does this relate to guns? Let's see... big brother says that new machine guns can't be owned by civilians, now the only civilians with new machine guns are outlaws. .GOV banned a lot of firearms, and the public (reading their propaganda) seems to think that's a great idea. Pretty similar with drugs.

Marijuana prohibition is the reason our prisons are overflowing. A lot of people in this thread state "I don't want to pay for addict treatment"... you already are. Only rather than paying to fix the problem, you are paying to put the mere user through criminal school, so when they graduate they will be "better" citizens.

I personally know 2 or 3 marijuana "addicts". They hold down regular jobs, pay their taxes and haven't killed anybody yet. I think my sig sums up this entire thread nicely.

IBTL
 
When guns are completely and thoroughly legalized, all civilians wishing to have them will get them. That means the evildoers will be in a tight spot, as their potential prey will be armed.

However, legalizing them suddenly in a place like NYC will do more bad than good, because the sheeple population there has already been brainwashed to hate guns. So making them available won't necessary mean that they will go out there and get some to protect themselves. First, an education program must be put in place to counterbrainwash the people, and make them come to their senses again. Finally, repeal all the useless gun control laws that have
made NYC a safe haven for criminals since 1976.


Legalized or not, gun control doesn't affect criminals. So legalize them completely, in every state and city.

Drugs, I am all for legalizing too. Those of us smart enough to listen to our parents and teachers will not try them, no matter what. Those who want to try them, well, let them. When they fall into addiction or overdose, that means one more burden lifted away from society's back. It is an effective way to clean up society's gene pool. Those who choose to live good lives would not try drugs at all, no matter how available they are. Addicts like Amy Winehouse, Britney Spears, etc... shouldn't be sent to rehab or other money-wasting programs. Let them wander the streets and let them rot in the streets. There are many needy people out there that need help, like accident victims and people suffering from illnesses. We don't have to help these other people who destroy their own bodies on purpose. They choose to do drugs, let them fend for themselves. No need for rehab or counseling or sh*t. If they manage to overcome their addiction and lead a good life, then kudos to them, if they freeze to death in the streets, so what? We have more urgent issues to deal with.
 
Gun "prohibition" and illegal drugs are inextricably linked

Harrison and NFA are incestuous twins bent on sucking yet more power from the constitution under the guise of being a "tax act" .

I am certain NFA collectors thank their lucky stars they are fortunate to actually be able to buy and USE those neat little tax stamps , unlike those that might be tempted to grow their own in their backyard . Talk about worthless , and marihuana is cheap to produce . Yet we spend a large portion of the monies on those guys . If we just started ignoring the pot smokers the savings would be tremendous .

Then we can work on the problem of appearing to "endorse " drug use or as some would see it "save face " . I am just over 40 and I remember being shown Reefer Madness in middle school . We mocked that guy for a whole year . Naturally the propaganda has gotten a lot better , but the same twisted logic as antigunners use prevails . And that will be a long row to hoe .
 
Last edited:
tho i myself dont use drugs,and believe they are harmful,i think that if they were leagelized there would be a large drop of drug crims,there will be no need for the street dealers,the gangs would have to look for some other way to make money,just think about it,a gang cookie sale,but if that happened how would the goverment be justified in spending soo much money on a was that isent needed?
 
I suspect there are some closet Libertarians here.

I suspect there are some closet Libertarians here. Good.

I may have missed it but no one mentioned, alcohol and nicotine. Two very powerful drugs that are currently legal.

We clearly learned nothing from Prohibition even though we repealed it.

I find it fascinating that Americans have this blind spot for nicotine and alcohol vs. other drugs. I heard G. Gordon Liddy over a decade ago trying to make the argument that it was "cultural". That Americans could "handle" alcohol but not pharmacological type drugs.n

Just a blind spot based on personal prejudice. The press doesn't cover alcoholism like they do drug use and addiction. As a society we wink and joke about drunks and headed for the bar. At the same time the Feds were shooting moonshiners. Today every late night tv show and some prime time wink and chuckle about their drug use. America laughs. Then spends Billions on DEA and draconian laws for non-violent offenses. It's irrational and it's destroying our country faster than any bunch of druggies nodding off in some apartment some where. And don't give me any crap about those dangerous criminals. That's about money not drugs. And don't get me started on the innocents caught in the middle between the DEA and the Drug businessmen. Oops... wrong house.

I don't drink, smoke or do any other kind of "recreational" chemicals. My personal choice is based on education and experience.

If, after being informed of the dangers of drugs, alcohol and nicotine use others wish to imbibe so be it. The consequences are on them and misuse, harm or potential harm to others should be severe penalized. Loss of jobs, drivers licenses, liberty, etc. Some Darwinian costs will have to be born in the short run but it will be worth it to restore our freedoms.

If drugs were legal they'd be cheap and we wouldn't be supporting ... well you know (insert bad guy or country here). Prohibition created organized crime. The drug war created the gangs and cartels and keeps feeding them. Also creates some major Government pork. DEA and ATF.

I highly recommend some books by L. Neil Smith which are set in and describe a world where guns and drugs are indeed legal.
The Probability Broach and The American Zone and finally Hope

http://www.lneilsmith.org/index.html
 
All you guys who think all drugs should be legal do you think mustard gas should be legal or nuclear material or how about the equipment to manufacture insecticides?

Do you think anything should be legal?
Where do you think it should stop?

Also how many of you really understand addiction? the different receptors they act on depending on the drug?, the different effects?
I for one could handle MJ being legal but seriously your guys agrument of well they'll get it anyway only works in theory and too a certain point for example and you can look it up during prohibition car accidents do to drunks went to almost zero why do you think that was?
 
Last edited:
To Vern: If drugs were legalized and easier to get, people would do cocaine, not meth. Meth is what users turn to once they run out of money for coke.

That said, I strongly agree to legalize
 
We all point out that where guns are banned like in the UK versus guns being more available like in the USA there are striking differences in crime. Some good factual comparisons have been made there in the argument to prevent infringement of our Second Amendment rights.

I would like to see someone argue against my earlier pointed post that where many drugs are legalized like Amsterdam that it's better for people there compared to elsewhere. Street robbery and theft are rampant in Amsterdam. I have seen this firsthand several times, and it is a striking difference compared to their neighbor Belgium where you can walk about at night without worry. Of course the people In Amsterdam are relatively unarmed so perhaps there could be some thinning out of the drug addicted street criminals if he populace were armed but that's a hypothetical.

From what I have read on this thread it seems to me it boils down to the hypothetical consideration that if everyone was personally accountable for their actions and decisions legal drugs wouldn't be a problem. But that's not reality in the good old USA these days, Spill coffee on your lap? It's not your fault, it's the restaurant's fault. Commit evil? Not your fault; it's your parent's fault or the 'socio-economic' factors!

So unless you can waive a magic wand and get everyone to be accountable for their actions and decisions, legalizing drugs seems counter productive.
 
legalizing drugs is a bad idea,including pot.imagine a company that can market drugs like they do alcohol...very scary.decriminalize growing pot in small amounts,companies can't market it, no real profits for organized crime.so instead of all our resources at the border having to deal with cannibas,they can focus on coke and h.freeing up alot of manpower(look at how much weed is seized at the border versus hard drugs)focus on the money,you can take all product from these people you want,it never hurts them,the mark up is too high.attacking the money end will disrupt the activity,messing up their lawyers,laundering operations etc.use minimum mandatories for drug sales to minors(make them HARSH)if a dope dealer knows he will get probation for sales to an adult and prison for a minor who do you think they will most likely sell to?right now the penalty is usually the same.take the time to build cases years if need be,to cripple the organizations.these tactics have shown promise,body counts are useless,how many people are you willing to lock up?the effects of hard drugs are terrible,legalizing them thereby making them cheaper will only slow the downward spiral of an addict.i do think that it would have some positive effects on drug related crime,though.the only real solution is if people just stopped doing them...good luck with that.
 
qwert65 said:
All you guys who think all drugs should be legal do you think mustard gas should be legal or nuclear material or how about the equipment to manufacture insecticides?

Do you have bleach and ammonia under your sink?
Do you have night sights on any of your guns?
Do you have a drip coffee maker?

Do you think anything should be legal?

I think the only things that should be legally restricted are those that present an immediate, direct, and significant danger to anyone beyond their possessor.

Also how many of you really understand addiction? the different receptors they act on depending on the drug?, the different effects?
I for one could handle MJ being legal but seriously your guys agrument of well they'll get it anyway only works in theory and too a certain point

So when have you ever heard of a drug addict that couldn't get a fix because there was no available supply? People in prison get drugs smuggled in to them. Kids are more likely to use marijuana than alcohol, because it's easier to find people willing to sell them pot than booze.

All the worst effects of drug abuse we see today are the direct result of attempts to restrict the trade. When junkies can get their fix cheap at the corner drugstore, they don't need to rob to support their habit, dealers will go out of business, and the drugs will be both safer and milder.

Addicts will of course still slowly kill themselves and occasionally do things like driving while impaired; but that already happens with users of both legal and illegal drugs.

for example and you can look it up during prohibition car accidents do to drunks went to almost zero why do you think that was?

If true, I'd imagine that it had more than a little to do with the Great Depression and the limited number of people able to afford cars and gas.
 
Prohibition doesn't work. Not then, and not now. For those complaining about drug crimes, I believe that the only way to reduce it, is legalization. That one HAS been proven to work.

The only drawback to legalization, is the liberals tendency to coddle stupid people. I can see a load of aid money being doled out, if the Dems are in charge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top