Lemat adjusting?

[kennysd]

since the Lemat thread is closed??? I have a question.
My DGW Lemat, one heck of a fine gun, arrived. building a fitted walnut case for it now, but
the hammer pull is STIFF.
is there a way to adjust the hammer spring.
it is a safe queen so I'm not worried about not hitting hard enough.
there is a mainspring screw on the butt, if I loosen it up, will that do it? this is one I've done before.
these are 1979 Colt Reissues. sn markings all original.
thanks...Ken

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

IS this what you are talking about?
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/76618-its-a-strain-screw-not-an-adjustment-screw/

 

[kennysd]

yup, think I'll leave it alone....thanks Ken

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Watch that long hair fellow on YouTube, Forgotten Weapons, he shows different Lemat models, he stated the hammer pull as being very strong. Must be the nature of the beast.

 

[kennysd]

I know the guy. watched it. and your word BEAST sums it up. I'm told this was a Generals gun....not a soldiers . kind of like Patton carrying a Colt SAA with ivory grips.
he didn't intend to get in a firefight with it.
When I was in Nam. I was issued a SW .38 snubnose for a side arm. I did a lot of travelling in the cities in I corp. first time I had to fire it just to see...
I went running to the QM and asked for a REAL Gun. got issued a .45 Colt and still have one.
So, I guess this Beast was meant to say something, not to go to war with. Ken

 

[Tommygunn]

The LeMat is both a very interesting revolver as well as being probably the least ergonomically designed one, atleast as far as loading is concerned. I own one I've had for ....25+ years .... I've shot it one time.

But it would make a very good bludgeon .....

 

[kennysd]

tell you one thing though. I thought my two Colt reissues from the 1970's were the finest NEW BP's made. after seeing the workmanship on this one, I may have to at least call it a tie!
takes two hands to cock it, but other than that...I really like it.
the casing of it is in the works now. red felt lining, accessories etc. I'll send a picture when I get it done. couple more weeks...Ken

 

[arcticap]

since the Lemat thread is closed??? I have a question.
My DGW Lemat, one heck of a fine gun, arrived. building a fitted walnut case for it now, but
the hammer pull is STIFF.
is there a way to adjust the hammer spring.
it is a safe queen so I'm not worried about not hitting hard enough.
there is a mainspring screw on the butt, if I loosen it up, will that do it? this is one I've done before.
these are 1979 Colt Reissues. sn markings all original.View attachment 934206
thanks...KenView attachment 934204

Try this moly paste lube and see if it helps any. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/unique-moly-trigger-lube-trigger-job-in-a-jar.873102/

 

[kennysd]

being shipped now, but the spring seems too stiff.. thinking about replacing the spring...

 

[PainlessWolf]

Good Morning,
I had not seen the LeMat thread was closed. There is not a lot to talk about as far as functionality of the grapeshot revolver goes once you learn the best loads for it and more importantly, how to load it safely. The spring is stiff due to the design not to a fault of the revolver itself. Remember those hand grip exercisers? Who needs those if you have a LeMat? ;o) I just cycle the cylinder a few rotations, cocking the hammer and then letting it down slowly. You will be crushing tin cans between your thumb and forefinger in no time *chuckles* There is some fine reading on the revolver available and I encourage anyone to learn about the history of the manufacturer and the replicas we shoot and enjoy today. There is still a fellow called 'The Colonel' out West who did tuneups on the revolver in years past but if you think that you are having an actual problem with it, contact the seller\manufacturer. I would not recommend taking this revolver down further than is needed for cleaning after a shooting session. I thoroughly enjoy mine and shoot it as often as I get the chance. I also enjoy shooting the Walker and big Dragoon revolvers as well. I am just nutty that way.
regards all!

https://www.amazon.com/Confederate-LeMat-Revolver-Doug-Adams/dp/1931464200

 

[arcticap]

being shipped now, but the spring seems too stiff.. thinking about replacing the spring...

Trying out another spring may help as would trying to lighten it.
But how much to lighten it could involve repeated trial and error.
There's different methods for lightening a mainspring such as cutting a slot in it, making it more narrow or by making it thinner, or a combination.
But you'll probably need a 2nd mainspring anyway.

Breaking in the action and grease can help.
And maybe also loosening the strain screw.
It sounds like a project that may require a gunsmith, or are you going to do the work yourself?

 

[kennysd]

Probably going to leave well enough alone...
after gunsmithing Colt SAA's for decades, tuning, bluing, re springing, etc. I thought maybe, the LeMat may have had some 'tricks' too.
but...While I could work on the spring, even make a new one...,yup, I can do that, it's not worth it.
wondering if someone sells a lighter spring? Thanks...Ken

 

[kennysd]

Ok spring work worked. I ordered a new mainspring from Taylor. I say Taylor because DGW has them too but opted for the original Mgr. spring.
I could not cock the LeMat one handed. so I took the new spring and smoothed the sides 'slightly' on the flat sander.
then I rounded the nose end to remove the burrs that where there. figuring it had to slide smoothly in the hammer notch.
I removed all the rough burrs on each side with the sander, watering the spring with each pass.
greased it well with your recommended Moly paste lube, put it in, and the hammer can now be cocked with ONE hand..I think I took a couple of pounds pull off .

done and done...Ken

 

[arcticap]

the hammer can now be cocked with ONE hand..I think I took a couple of pounds pull off .

Good for you.
Did you install some tubing on the nipples to protect them so that you can dry fire it?
Clear vinyl tubing that has an I.D. of .170" and an O.D. of 1/4" should definitely fit on the nipple, available at Lowes or Home Depot.
Aquarium tubing also used to be recommended.
As long as there's enough clearance for it to allow the cylinder to rotate.
Or do you simply remove the nipples or what?

 

[kennysd]

all good ideas I'm sure, but I don't dry fire any of my guns. I play with them of course, but not pulling the trigger.
Too much damage could, as you said, can happen.
I'm thinking about trimming the spring a little more, but I go to the mirror and slap myself while saying Leave it Alone Dummy! until I get over it.
HA. I sanded the spring lengthwise of course. No nicks or grind marks.
As the guy that jumped off the building, and as he passed each floor said...' so far, so good" I hope the spring lasts... Ken

 

[ZeroFox]

I have noticed, in my LeMat (Pietta repro, never shot it) for the indexing to work properly every time, you must keep the revolver level while cocking. If you tip the barrel up while cocking, most likely not gonna spin the cylinder.

 

[ZeroFox]

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

It's a nice pistol, sounds like a weak or missing hand spring. Out of curiosity, how much effort is needed to cock the hammer?

 

[45 Dragoon]

Holy cow!! This is the first time I've EVER heard anyone say a 2nd Gen Colt cap gun was the finest bp revolver ever made!!! Not to mention a PAIR of them !!! (How can one come to that conclusion!!? even after handling a new Uberti? A new Uberti is light years ahead any 2nd gen ever produced!!!) I've never had even a decent one come through the shop!! They bite me in the a$$ every time I work on one!! I personally wouldn't have one, but that's just me!! They seem to be at best as good as a bad ASM but that's being very nice!! I keep thinking "this one will be a good one" but nope, still bites me in the seat!! Probably will do like every one else and quite taking them after the first of the year! Just did a Navy that was nothing but a nightmare! Loose arbor, arbor hole broken through the boss (pretty common for these !), the original bolt was of insufficient quality to use for the tuning expected . . . just amazing !!

Sorry kennysd, don't mean to be picking on you but . . . REALLY?!!

Mike

 

[kennysd]

I love this discussion Mike. I think you're wrong, or just had the wrong guns come your way. I've been gunsmithing Colts for 40 years and think I've seen everything. I have a 61 Navy original on my bench right now, parts coming.
The timing of a Colt is a tough job, and there is no such thing as 'drop in' parts, but you know that I'm sure.
the two Colt reissues I own, 60 Army and 51 square back are perfectly timed. both of them. no hammer overthrow, bolt drop in the start of the cylinder notch. no trigger travel at all. 3 pounds both for pull.
the frames are buffed together with the grips, I know because that's how I do it. bone case hardening by Turnbull, perfectly polished. no dished out screws, flat surfaces., and a high luster blue.
The Italian jobs, (I'm Italian) are factory guns. good, but not great. timing usually....quality ;of wood, fit, etc. I've owned many and enjoyed them.
Now the 3rd gen SAA, and I have two, need smithing....fit finish, timing etc. no discussion there. but the Black Powder guns,,,,,perfect.
Your turn! HA...Ken

 

[45 Dragoon]

Haaa!!! Lol!
Well first, the 2nd gens weren't treated by Mr.Turnbull . . . on and on so, your comparing a (possibly) tuned or altered pair of revolvers to factory offerings from Italy. Just for you and those reading along, here is a comparison of the 2nd gens (customer guns) I have on hand at the moment (and this is typical):

2 Walkers - one has a 5 lb hammer draw and a4 lb trigger pull. The other has a 6 lb hammer draw and a 3 1/2 lb trigger pull. They both have late bolt drop, short hands .

5 '51 Navys - they range from 5 lbs to 6 3/4 lb hammer draws, 3 3/4 to 4 1/2 lb trigger pulls. All but one of them have the arbor hole end broken through! (Very typical) so much for "high quality" . . . The Walkers did not have the breakthrough and I don't recall ever seeing any in the past. And of course, they ALL have a short arbor. (You didn't mention that in your description for your 51's but I assume you corrected that as well . . . I know Colt didn't )

The last 2nd gen I tuned was a 51 (mentioned above) was the worst as far as timing. Three chambers were timing the same, 3 were not. Turns out the ratchet was very soft and some "manipulation" had to be done. I told the owner if things change in that aspect, I'll be glad to setup a new Uberti cylinder for it. Anyway, another biggie was the mounting holes in the bolt were so close to the top, I swear I could have pushed into it with my thumb nail!! So, I replaced it with a Pietta bolt and after fitting it, extensive mods were done to it (as per usual) for the tuning process! Worked out great!! It left here with perfect timing (bolt dropping centered in the approach, just as the notch reached the timing mark (line of sight with left hammer slot cut at left cheek of recoil shield)), a 4 lb hammer draw, 2 1/2 lb trigger pull with pos. engagement, a barrel /cyl clearance of .003", all the usual bolt block, action stop, cap post, action shield, coil handspring, coil-torsion action springs, hardened and fire blued screws . . . This one actually got the "Dead-Eye Mule" setup (rare) which involves installing a "reverse tapered" pin in the barrel lug (between the holes for the locator pins) that is received into the frame (between the pins) and is locked down with a set screw to "lock" the lug in place. This is a mod mostly for target shooting, not legal for SASS.

Again, the timing was terrible, late bolt drop, short hands . . . the same "timing" you get from Italy today! Lol of course, these are the things wrong and why folks send them to be turned into something shootable that will last a lifetime.

You do mention that the bolt drops on the edge of the notch? Do you mean the edge of the approach or the notch? Dropping anywhere on a notch is late and a bolts width in front of the notch (timing mark mentioned above) is a better reference.

The guns we get from Italy today are much better in terms of consistency, parts quality (the Uberti action parts are about perfect for a mass produced revolver), most of the miss- machining, soft parts (besides screws) are a thing of the past. The cylinder runout is close enough to allow for a true .0025" bbl /cyl clearance!! Very nice !!

Ok, your turn lol !! (This is fun)

Mike

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Of all the cap and ball guns sent out of italy...the older ones are in my experience the worst. Parts are soft and have bad castings. Today's pietta and uberti guns and parts are on a whole other level. Every now and then there is a fairly good/decent stock second gen colt. Actually a member here by the username woodnbow sent me a second gen colt to slick up and it wasnt all that bad parts or timing wise. Sure it needed the usual smoothing out etc...but the timing was spot on. It was one of the rare second gen colts that are in shape thats similar to todays ubertis. But i have to agree with Mike...older models are no where near todays quality, but i will admit...there is often the rare gem that needs very little extra attention and cycles/times great.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Great thread! Don't let it die, Ken.