LEO ever harass with conceal/carry permit?

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seeds76

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I live in a pretty liberal state/city and I'm contemplating getting a conceal/carry permit but have heard stories of Police officers going overboard when pulling you over for minor traffic issues. I'm usually in the car with the kids, and I don't want the LEO to treat me like a criminal in front of my family. You know like calling backup, making me get out of the car, searching me, or making me take out my weapon from the glove box, etc. I just don't want a scene to be made, you know what I mean?

Any of you law abiding guys/gals experience unnecessary actions by LEO just because they discover you have a conceal/carry permit?
 
Depends on the area you live. My brother was stopped over the weekend in rural Colorado for 30 over, had his Kimber in the glove box. Told the officer that his pistol was in the glove box with the requested paperwork. Officer asked him to remove it from the glove box and told him he was going to take it back to his car for safe keeping... yeah I know... came back with the ticket, handed my brother the ticket for 5 over and his pistol. Told my brother that it was a very nice firearm and to drive safe. My brother had no legal obligation to inform the officer but did so anyway to avoid any issues. He even called me to tell me how cool guy was about it.
 
To the contrary, I use the concealed gun as a point for polite conversation and a way to convince the officer that I am an orderly and reputable citizen. Speeding tickets turn into warnings.
 
Never had an issue with it in more than 20 years.

making me take out my weapon from the glove box
I would caution you to find out the the laws in your state. In some states like I live in. A conceal pistol permit only allows for a loaded pistol to be on your person. It is not legal here to have a loaded pistol in the glove box, it must be on the permit holder. The way they break into cars around here its not really a good idea to leave one in the glove box anyway.
 
#1-Depends on the state. PA does not require any notification on a car stop.
#2-No offense guys, but I would not initiate or continue any gun conversation with a LEO during any "official" discussion.
#3-Only time I had an issue was entering a Phil. Flyers game. I saw they were searching at the door, so I went to the security office first. No problem from the cops, they locked my P32 in a little cozy box for the duration of the event. They suggested that I should have left it in the car. I (in my mind) disagreed and said "thanks".
 
As the other guys said, this is going to depend a lot on where you are exactly, and an awful lot on the specific officer.

First off, know the rules in your state (and county, city, etc. if you state doesn't have preemption).

This will be controversial advice, but it is mine to give: If your state does not require notifying the officer -- AND you carry in a manner/location where your gun is not going to be discovered during a routine traffic stop, then keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel, be very polite, follow all directions exactly, and DON'T mention your gun. There certainly are places where a large percentage of the cops you might meet will not be happy or comfortable with you carrying. If you don't NEED to tell them, don't. Take your medicine and be on your way.

On the other hand, if your gun is in the glove box on top of your registration card (and that would be STUPID, but not uncommon) then you're going to want to tell that cop, BEFORE you reach for your registration(!), that you hold a permit and that you are carrying and where it is. Same thing applies if he asks you to step out of the car for some reason -- tell him RIGHT NOW. Then you get to see just how that cop feels about your right to carry AND how you were driving. Might be better, might be worse. BUT, you don't want ANY cop ANYWHERE to find your gun accidentally. It may get all straightened out later, but it won't be pleasant in the mean time.

On the third hand (wow, lotta hands here!) if your state requires you to inform, do so IMMEDIATELY. Before you say, "did I do something wrong officer," or "Hey, PIG, what's your problem?" (Uh, that was a JOKE, ok?), or even "Hi." You say "Officer, I have a duty to inform you that I am a concealed weapon permit holder and I have my 12 lb. Mountain Howitzer in a shoulder holster under my left arm." (Or whatever you happen to carry.) Again, at this point you get to see just what the officer thinks of "citizens" with CCWs. But, if you're legal, there are limits to how bad it can be. (And if it REALLY gets out of hand, you can and should file an official complaint. Those things do have an effect.)

Having said all that, I strongly do believe that a great many cops do see a citizen's CCW license or permit as a kind of "good guy certification." Not, perhaps, that they LOVE the idea that you've got a gun in there with you, but that you've kept yourself out of trouble so far, most likely don't desire any trouble in the future, and probably are several notches down on his "threat level" meter from the average. There are so many stories floating around here and other sites about tickets which were knocked down to warnings or reduced fines after the driver handed the officer his CCW card that I think the theory is sound. I've had this experience myself.

In the end, though, you don't choose to carry because it is or isn't popular with the local law enforcement community. You carry to defend yourself in the gravest extreme. If you're concerned about unpleasant interactions with the police, drive close to the speed limit and obey the traffic laws. If they have no probable cause to stop you -- or even notice you, then why are you concerned what they think?

In all seriousness, how many official interactions have you had with your local law-enforcement officers in the last 5 years? Just because you're now carrying a gun doesn't make them any more likely.

Good luck!

-Sam
 
In some states like I live in. A conceal pistol permit only allows for a loaded pistol to be on your person. It is not legal here to have a loaded pistol in the glove box, it must be on the permit holder.

Runningman,

Are you speaking about Washington? If you are, that is incorrect. Notice the word OR in the RCW below:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

Condition (i),(ii), OR (iii) must be met, all three at the same time do not. As long as the licensee is in the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, a loaded pistol may be carried or placed in the vehicle.
 
Your worries of harassment by cops shouldn't dissuade you from getting a permit. Get the permit before your state decides that it should be a may-issue state. You can decide whether you want to carry afterward.

I'll refer you to some sage advice regarding how to deal with LEOs... CLICK HERE to read his post.
 
Unless the car has a locking compartment keeping the gun in it isn't the best idea. If you do have a locking glove box, as you get stopped lock it, and have the paper work elsewhere.

The cops can't see in what is locked legally, not for a traffic infraction anyway. I carry on my body and I carry a locking case where the gun goes and gets locked when the blue lights come on. What in that locked case is no one bee's wax, it is a locked case.

I have a permit, but I don't mention it as I am not required by law, and I figure the cops knows I have before he has me pulled over anyway.

I simply remain silent, and pass over any papers I am asked for. When asked if I know what i was pulled over for, I say No Sir, even if I do.

I have no idea what else the officer might be looking for, so I don't say anything I don't need to say, which is mostly No Sir, or may I leave now.

The last thing I want to do is pretend we are going to be friends.
 
Here in Texas, I am obligated to inform the officer that I am a CCW holder, supply him with my CHL license with my DL and if I am carrying.

I have been stopped once and had nothing short of a great experience. I don't know if it was a 'Good Guy Certification' or not, but the cop asked me where I was carrying (3:30 strong side) and that was it. No disarm, no nothing. I got a warning for doing about 10 over. (70 in a 60)

I suppose I understand the 'don't want to pretend to be friends' and all, but most cops around here are just guys doing their job. You get more flies with honey and all that noise.
 
Mac, I know this isn't what you said or implied, but let's clarify something:

If you're going to lock a case or deposit a gun somewhere that you can lock, you'd best do so in the most discreet way that you can. Maybe you're driving a Civic and can very nonchalantly lock that glove box door without changing position and being obvious about it. Maybe you're driving an F-350 and have to unbuckle your seat belt and climb over the arm rest to lock that box. Gee, that looks a little odd Officer Friendly's headlights.

I guess I'm kind of countering Mac's advice, though I don't mean to discount what he's said. Once the officer has singled you out, I'd make no movements of any kind that he might be able to see. So he tagged you doing 20 mph over (just like 10 others so far this shift). Routine stop. Probably already knows whether he's going to give you a ticket or warning before he stops the car. But, if his headlights illuminate you leaning over, reaching for stuff, changing positions, moving things around -- basically doing anything at all besides waiting for him to walk up, his warning/curiosity radar is going to go off. I'd say at that point he's got two guesses as to what you're up to: 1) hiding drugs, 2) hiding, or GOING FOR, a gun. Neither of those things do I want on his mind when he's approaching me.

Now we can argue about probable cause and whether he has a right to search your car. Many cops will tell you that, in their opinion, PC can be found pretty much whenever they feel the need. That may not be right or expressly legal, but you'll have to argue the point later. What if he says, "I noticed you locked your glove box. What's in there?" Now we may know that the right answer is, "Officer am I being charged with anything? Am I free to go?" What happens after that would be interesting to see. I'm going to guess the reduced ticket is out of the question at least! :rolleyes:

And here's the rub, you've committed no criminal act and have nothing to hide. So what next? Tell him what's in the glove box? Then why lock it up in the first place? Let him find it?...OOOOHHH, bad choice!

I think I have to stick by my first advice: Don't carry it in a glove box -- unless your papers are NOT in there. In fact, don't carry it in the glove box at all! Glove box carry just means you have to fool with your gun every time you get in or out of the car. Leave it in the holster!

If stopped, don't put your hands near it, don't reach for it, don't talk about it -- unless required by your state or if you think he's GOING to find it due to the nature of the stop/interaction.

If the cop has to know about it for whichever reason, be upfront, polite, and professional. Don't argue with him, don't debate the concept. If he does anything unprofessional, aggressive, or illegal, take the best mental notes you can and report it asap. It's your RIGHT, and (as long as you're following the law) you have no reason to act or be afraid.

As the sticky says at the top of the "General" forum says, "You are NOT a guilty criminal -- stop acting like one!"

-Sam
 
I don't get pulled over all that often, so I don't have any special places in my car to facilitate any special actions in the very rare event that I do. I think roll window down, right hand on steering wheel, left hand out the window with driver's license and military ID clearly visible in it is good enough.

If stopped when carrying, also CPL (I know it's not required unless asked in WA) with DL and Military ID and inform cop of where my gun is located. I have only been carrying in WA for a year and a half and haven't gotten stopped yet, but the CPL and notification are what my plans are. I don't expect to have any problems.

I would think if the cop happens to see you fondling your weapon before he approaches the vehicle, that is going to tend to escalate things. I have no reason to hide the gun from the cop, it is being legally carried.
 
You know, that is something that I don't even think about. The last time I was pulled over was in 1977. If you are legally carrying, just abide by your state's law to notify if required. Don't worry over it. Way too many things to worry over than a traffic stop.
 
Any of you law abiding guys/gals experience unnecessary actions by LEO just because they discover you have a conceal/carry permit?

NEVER happend to me in Washington, Idaho, Utah, or Nevada and I carry regularly in all those states.
 
No problems here. I was stopped for speeding in CO a couple years ago. I handed the officer my CCL along with my DL (as I'm required to do in TX). He asked if I had a gun in the car and I told him no. He handed the CCL back to me and proceeded to write the ticket...

I don't think the CCL made a bit of difference one way or the other.
 
Its all depends on a lot of things. Where you live, the cops attitude towards guns, your attitude, and so many different things.

As an officer I can tell you that many officers view their gun as just a tool for their job. Many rarely practice and hardly qualify every year. Some are very pro gun, like most of my squad. I constantly encourage people to inform themselves about firearms and self defense.

It aslso depends a lot on where you live. Someone who was raised on California or New York City will likely have a very different opinion on guns than someone who came from Texas or Arizona.

Now as for a CCW getting you out of a ticket, it sometimes can. Mostly depending on the above points. it can also depend on how the officer normally handles traffic stops. I rarely ever write traffic tickets. I pull over lots of people and give them some "schooling" on proper driving but only write tickets when they really deserve one...ie anything school related. Im usually hunting for a good arrest.

My advice would be to state it right up front. If your legal, you have nothing to worry about. But staying silent and then blurting out "oh yeah, I have a gun" when he asks you to step out, can get very ugly fast. I have had that happen to me and I thought it was going western real quick.

Also, leaning over to lock your gun in a box really quick is not a smart idea. Sure it very legal but turns you into a "bad guy" very quick. Why??? because thas the stuff bad guys do!!!! Nothing says "Im hiding something illegal" more than locking something in a case and refusing to say whats in it.

Now all of a sudden that stop for 10 over the limit has been added to the tail-gating and when you might have slightly cut that guy off..... Bam your arrested for aggressive driving. Then a quick inventory search for your impounded car, they unlock the case and find your LEGALY OWNED AND CARRIED firearm that you were hiding.

That might be a little extreme, but good luck getting a warning after.
 
I am still waiting for my permit. I asked a motorcycle cop. About if I should hand him the permit with my lisc. He said it was a courtesy thing. And he had let other Permit holders off with warnings. Unless they were doing something really stupid.
 
In Florida it is legal to keep a pistol in any closed compartment of your car. The compartment, glove box, center console, whatever, doesn't have to be locked, and since you are legally transporting the weapon you don't have to inform an officer who stops you for a minor traffic violation.

However, if he sees you reaching into a glove box where you have a hidden handgun expect action to pick up!

I keep my registration and insurance card on a clip over my visor. That way, if I get pulled, I don't have to open the glove box at all, and it isn't an issue.

Of course, now that I have my concealed weapons license I am required by law to inform the officer that I have my permit and that I am carrying. So far it hasn't been a problem.

One thing about me is I don't speed, and I obey all traffic laws. My last ticket was in 2000 for for having a head light out. It cost me a whole $7.50, and I had to prove I fixed it before I payed the ticket. My last moving violation was for less than 9 miles an hour over the limit in 1984.
 
I agree with JonnyC and live in a state where you don't have to tell the officer and I wouldn't unless he asked me. After the stop was over, I would ask the cop why he asked if I had a weapon.
 
There is such a thing called a "furtive gesture." It has a regular, ol’ conversational meaning for us and it also has a legal definition for the law and it gives a cop the legal right to start vigorously investigating.

If I was a cop and saw someone hiding something away from me, I’d have to be an idiot to assume that it was nothing to worry about. Observed “furtive gestures” open up a giant, needlessly time-consuming can of worms. I try to look at things from both sides. Sneaky, hurried movements would be a giant red flag for someone (a cop) who knows nothing else about me. Cops never know what they’re in for when they stop a vehicle and I don’t want my first impression to be one of deception.

How would you feel, as a cop, if the first thing you saw was someone trying to hide something from you?

I realize that there are places where one doesn’t have to inform cops of a gun’s presence and some here say that they’d stand by their rights to do so but is it really worth the potential hassle? Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy? I’d rather not make a giant issue out of something so trivial. It takes up too much time.

When I’m driving, I’m trying to get somewhere and the path of least resistance will get me there the quickest. Who wants to be delayed on the side of the road for an hour while one’s self and one’s vehicle is combed over?
 
I would rather inform the officer of the gun. Than to have him find it. Most of the time the question does come up anything in the car I should know about.
 
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