less-than-lethal for my girlfriend...

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No-one has even mentioned anything about her being afraid of guns except for you.

you say you live in tx so there is no legal hurdle.

apparently you own a computer so it is likely that you could eventually scrape together enough cash for a handgun, even if it took a little saving, so there is no financial hurdle.

i'm sorry - i can be a little thick at times - but all i see left is a psychological hurdle.

pax,
as always, you're right. i guess i should have said aggressiveness gives one the best chance at survival. i agree that any tools and/or training are likely to be better than none but only if the person has enough will to use them. i am not suggesting that any average citizen has the time or money to become some superninja. i'm just saying that there seems to be a problem with docility that should be addressed first. bill seems to dislike that i mention this but hasn't refuted it.
 
shove it into their mouths and empty it down their throats.

Actually, doing exactly this is worthless. You'd better off just stuffing the empty can down there if they give you that oppurtunity. I know lots of people that can drinK it. You need to get it in the eyes and up the nose. Drinking it is easy so long as you spray it into the back of the mouth and swallow it. Just don't inhale it.



David
 
LAK said:
That or a small heavy leather handbag - custom made if necessary - with extra strong attachments for a longish, extra strong leather shoulder strap. With a few dollars in change for all those phonecalls and parking meters etc, and a few other little nick-nacks it ought to make a pretty tough rock in a sock.

Unless Fendi or Prada makes one like this, I don't see that as an option.

;)
 
chopinbloc said:
i'm just saying that there seems to be a problem with docility that should be addressed first. bill seems to dislike that i mention this but hasn't refuted it.


Again, you're just projecting things that aren't there. I never said I disliked anything. I asked about a flashlight and pepper spray for my girlfriend and you're having a thread all to yourself about docile girls who are afraid of guns and their boyfriends who won't refute it.
 
Bill,

Like I posted in my legal thread on Tasers, I've taken 3 direct shots of OC over the years volunteering to be the aggressor for the small town police department where I grew up.

Every time, the officer got the stuff as much as I did. It is effective, but it treats everyone equally, user and target.

If you go that route be SURE to buy the practice cans at the very least. And, some may disagree, but I'd spray some onto a towel and take a good whif, you need to know what's going to happen when you discharge that, you are gonna get a little on you and need to know what it's like.
 
only1asterisk said:
Actually, doing exactly this is worthless. You'd better off just stuffing the empty can down there if they give you that oppurtunity. I know lots of people that can drinK it. You need to get it in the eyes and up the nose. Drinking it is easy so long as you spray it into the back of the mouth and swallow it. Just don't inhale it.



David

Let's see someone not inhale it in the middle of a fight. When it's being emptied into there mouth. Fight's tend to be a rather aerobic event's quiet hard I imagine to not breath... That's why the cone or fog's work better than the stream.
 
Again, you're just projecting things that aren't there. I never said I disliked anything. I asked about a flashlight and pepper spray for my girlfriend and you're having a thread all to yourself about docile girls who are afraid of guns and their boyfriends who won't refute it.

i am drawing conclusions from available data. i am not making generalizations about poor, helpless females. i am making generalizations about people who fear guns. this may not be the case. i can't think of another explanation but if there were another rational reason that firearms are not even an option it should be easy for you to say so. instead, you seem to take offense but don't deny the truth of my statement. it is not wise to take offense over the truth.

okay, how about we all just say what you want to hear so you'll be happy. that's much better than actually THINKING and examining the root of issues, huh? so here goes:
pepper spray and a flashlight are perfect. just have your girl drop them into her handbag with all the other crap and she'll be safe from everything from pitbulls to terrorists. naw, don't worry about training. don't worry about mindset or physical fitness. don't worry about situational awareness. just trust the flashlight and pepperspray. she'll be fine.
 
chopinbloc ~

Thead hijacking is really rude. Please drop it now.

***

billmanweh said:
I don't know why I have the whistle on the brain. I guess I just thought it would be an easy way to make a LOT of noise easily if she felt threatened.

Well, yes, they are good for making lots of noise. Problem is, it really isn't the kind of noise that brings folks running. A woman screaming, "FIRE!!! THERE'S A FIRE!!" will bring folks running a lot faster, either to see the fire or to save their own skins from it. A woman screaming, "HELP!! HELP!! RAPE!" might bring a few altruistic folks running, but will more likely at least get a call to the police by people who don't want to get involved.

But the sound of a whistle blowing isn't likely to merit a call to the cops, and is likely to pass unremarked and unremembered unless someone is listening for it.

pax
 
pax said:
chopinbloc ~
Well, yes, they are good for making lots of noise. Problem is, it really isn't the kind of noise that brings folks running. A woman screaming, "FIRE!!! THERE'S A FIRE!!" will bring folks running a lot faster, either to see the fire or to save their own skins from it. A woman screaming, "HELP!! HELP!! RAPE!" might bring a few altruistic folks running, but will more likely at least get a call to the police by people who don't want to get involved.

But the sound of a whistle blowing isn't likely to merit a call to the cops, and is likely to pass unremarked and unremembered unless someone is listening for it.

pax

People who know more about this sort of thing than we are likely to are skeptical of the whole "Fire!" thing. The problem with it is that everyone has heard it. "Fire? That means rape. I don't want to get involved." They recommend something more along the lines of "You lineal relative of a canid, I'm going to rip your lovemaking head off!" First, it's a better mindset for the defender. Active rather than passive. Second, the bystander is a little more likely to think "Hey! Looks like a catfight. And it sounds like she's winning. If I show up I can be a hero without getting hurt."
 
Billmanweh said:
I'm still interested in feedback related to my original question.

As you can tell, I've got some fairly strong opinions on the subject. Cries of "No! Say it ain't so." I've also had a little experience, about 13 years, teaching women's self defense, everything from 4 hour demos to 40 hour self defense courses to long term martial arts programs and a fair number of trips to the range with first-time shooters.

Your desire to get her a good self defense tool does you credit. It shows you care about her and want her to be safe. The best tool depends very much on the job it needs to be put to. The world's best air conditioner is still a lousy screwdriver. Think about what sort of trouble she's likely to get in. That should tell you a lot about what would be most useful.

The most important thing is her. If she has a self-defense mindset, then whatever you get her will be appreciated and fit into her plans accordingly.

If she doesn't, the best thing would be a really good short-term self defense course that will expand her ideas about what she is capable of and clarify her values about herself, defending herself and valuing her own life and safety more highly than those of criminals. It sounds strange to most guys, but a lot of strong capable women have a problem with helping themselves if it means hurting another human being. From there, go back to step 1.

I can't speak to her particular needs without learning more about her personally, but I can tell you about some of the things that my wife and other women we know have kept, carried and sometimes used.

A good pocket knife is a good pocket knife. Indispensable tool for everyday use. Think pink Spyderco Delica rather than the Mark X MilSpecOpsTacMoFo Eviscerator :) It has the advantage of being accessible and of familiarity. Carry a good knife and use it, and it naturally comes to hand. Of course, that's getting into the realm of lethal force. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the rather delicate act of curling your hand and applying three pounds of pressure to a lever with your index finger is psychologically easier than repeatedly sticking a knife into someone, feeling blood on your hands and all the other intimate (not in a good way) things that come with jacking someone up with a blade.

My wife wears a lot of shawls and scarves. She holds them together with an 8 inch upholstery needle with a pretty amber bead on the dull end. Sometimes she knots old-style silver dollars into the ends of the scarf.

If your girlfriend is the bookish sort she would probably appreciate a nice bookweight. Levenger makes a very nice doorstop-shaped one with a suede back that won't hurt the pages. It's about 11 inches long and weighs as many ounces. My favorite is from St. John's College in Santa Fe. Their bookstore sells a soft, flexible leather bookweight filled with about half a pound of fine lead shot. It even has the infinitely tweedy St. John's College name embossed on it.

They say a prepared person should always have twenty dollars in quarters and a fresh pair of sturdy socks. That way you always have clean socks and twenty dollars.

A good self defense course should include a section on improvised tools. Everything from tweezers to fluffy teddy bears can be turned to protection in the hands of someone with training and intention. I'm absolutely serious about the fluffy teddy bear.

One of the most creative I've heard of was a two-part system consisting of a sock puppet and a blowtorch. The woman who carried it was driving cross-country through all sorts of jurisdictions and didn't have a lot of training. It's disconcerting to talk to a crazy woman who only talks to you through a sock puppet and is holding a foot-long flame. More than one guy with bad intent took a look at that and elsewhered himself.

If she were a guy I'd recommend one of those Israeli field dressings. But since she's a woman she probably carries something sterile that's designed absorb blood and works just fine as a wound dressing.

The possibilities are limited only by ingenuity and imagination.
 
My 2 cents

I would suggest Training, a Tazer, and this pepperspray which I have.
It has a 10-15 foot concentrated fog and puts out alot of spray. Althogh Ive heard people train to fight past the burn I would like to see it with a sustained burst of 1-3 seconds of this stuff. I believe it is 1.5 or 2 million scovil units at 15%.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Bear-Pepper-Spr...ryZ79849QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And from a friend who survived the Philadelphia Ghettos: Oven Cleaner.
 
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I have been researching the Taser and I find it more and more compelling.

I am very close to ordering one for my wife and tossing her OC.

She is not handgun fearful but she is a teacher so severely limited in the carrying of her LadySmith.

The Taser, so far, is not regulated in Texas so can be carried pretty much anywhere she goes.
 
LAK said:
What; does she have an image problem? In which case I would imagine a small fire extinguisher is out too :)


She's as picky about shoes and purses as I am about my guns. My getting her a generic self-defense purse would probably be the equivalent of her bringing me home a new Hi-Point 9mm. A nice thought, but...
 
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