Lessons From a Confrontation #3

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rainbowbob

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A few nights ago, one of my brothers and I were downtown walking to his car after a concert we had attended with another brother. We were stopped at a light when we noticed three rough looking characters huddling on the far corner where we would have to pass on our way to the parking lot.

Ironically, we had just been engaged in a heated (but friendly) post-concert discussion on the subject of gun rights and the need for personal self-defense. They are both good liberals who have swallowed the kool-aid and believe less guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens somehow = less criminal violence. :banghead:

I was immediately concerned – but not alarmed – at the prospect of passing in such close proximity to these characters (the guys on the street - not my brothers ;) ).

I put my hand unobtrusively in my pocket (where I keep a j-frame in a holster) and we proceeded to cross the street and pass by the three men who were talking animatedly amongst themselves – as were we.

No sooner had we passed them, when they fell in directly behind us. I turned and looked at them and one of them called to a fourth man up ahead of us and across the street. That man crossed directly to our side, but seemed to hesitate coming further toward us.

We quickly got in the car and closed the doors. Suddenly the guy who had shouted to the fourth guy appeared, slobbering and yelling something unintelligible, inches from the driver’s window! We both shouted at him to get lost, my brother put the car in gear, and we drove away.

--------------------

In retrospect, I realized we should have been more heads up while entering the car. There is a real possibility they were sizing us up for a car-jacking or a mugging. The gobblin’s purpose at the window could have been to distract us as we got in the car, while a confederate or two came up on the passenger side with a weapon. A length of pipe would have been all they needed to smash the windows and/or us.

We were most vulnerable as we unlocked the car and got in. My first impulse was to react to the guy at the window. :banghead:

It should have been to turn and look to the other side and behind us, while my brother dealt with the guy at his window.

I think we may have erred if we assumed this was merely the annoying behavior of generally harmless street people. It may have been - or it may have been a loosely organized cohort of dangerous thugs and road agents capable of sudden violence.

If it was the latter, situational awareness is the first line of defense, and driving away is by far the best tactic and the optimal outcome. But a surprise attack from one side while distracted on the other as you enter your car is a well-known assault strategy. Fast, violent, and unexpected.

Such an event might require the use of an effective means to lawfully defend oneself as a last resort. I would assert it is our responsibility to ourselves and our loved ones to preserve our lives – even at the terrible cost of the lives of those who would harm us.

In that instance, a firearm in hand may be the only way to foil such a crime. Typically, no shots are fired in the overwhelming majority of lawful defensive gun uses (estimated by multiple reliable sources to number between one and two million a year in the U.S.). Criminals don’t want to get shot, and often will abandon their attack when presented with armed resistance. If not, however, the armed victim must be prepared and willing to fire his weapon at his attackers, in most cases at extremely close range, until the assault ceases.

Of course, the above extrapolation of the actual incident is hypothetical. However, I suggest it is not an unlikely scenario, and similar incidents happen every day.

Those guys struck me as very hinky from the moment we saw them. My “spidey sense” was tingling…and that face in the window confirmed it.

Who knows what they were really up to?

I want to believe in the inherent goodness of mankind and the operability of the social contract. I also believe we should recognize that evil – whatever the cause – exists and is afoot in our communities.

I believe attempting to solve the social conditions that contribute to the spread of such evil is an important task. I also believe that the complete eradication of evil is a utopian fantasy. Until that “fantasy” becomes a reality…public safety should be the first priority of government. Personal safety should be the priority and the responsibility of each individual.

This did provide an interesting "real-life" scenario with which to continue the discussion with my brothers.

Note: Please don't bother to post comments disparaging my brothers and insisting I should cut off any further contact with them. These are good, intelligent, loving kin (however misguided).

I will continue to learn...and hopefully so will they.

Let’s be safe out there.
 
Even thought I may feel the person misguided, I will not begrudge anyone their right to not own a firearm, and I do not think it reflects on them poorly as a person if that is what they choose. I make my choices, they make theirs.
I'm just glad to hear that this incident ended up being just an interesting story. (It could have been much worse)
 
You were playing a half victim by putting yourself in a compromised situation. If your better judgement indicates something is wrong, you acknowlege your opponent from a distance, this can be done with eye contact. If any words need to be uttered I would simply say "I don't trust you stay away from me." Do your part to descalate by maintaining your distance but if he closes in then it is time to resort to military action.
 
Did you have a flashlight? Cell phone? Did you call it in? Any force options available to you beside the revolver in your pocket, like pepper spray?

Any reason you didn't cross to the other side of the street to avoid coming into close proximity to a group of people who looked hinky?

Who was driving? Where were you in the car?

lpl
 
(1) This is the kind of setup for assault that is described in Marc MacYoung's "Safe in the Street" DVD. You don't need a gun to follow his advice, so your brothers could benefit from watching it (as well as yourself, of course).

(2) Since you all got away safely, your brothers probably have no idea what danger you all were in.

(3) You're spidey sense was right, you were in danger.

(4) I also believe in the inherent good in mankind as a general rule: but there are quite a number of people in our society who have grown up to be exceptions to that rule. To treat these as people who can be reasoned with, or to whose sense of decency you can successfully appeal, is to put your head in the lion's mouth.
 
Sorry, when he came to the window, I would have drawn. Not drawn down on him necessarily, but it would have left my pocket and been in my hand. I probably would have done this when they came to within danger distance of the car.
 
Sorry, when he came to the window, I would have drawn. Not drawn down on him necessarily, but it would have left my pocket and been in my hand.

I tend to agree, not having been there and based on your description.

Bob: did you report it immediately?
 
Bob, That was me man! I overheard you talking to your brothers and said, "I know that talk.....RAINBOWBOB!!" I'm glad you didn't draw down on us too, my cousins and I kinda thought your brothers looked hinky, I had my hand on mine also! :evil:

:neener:

Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree with the above posts but I think if your spidey senses were going off, maybe instruct your brothers to get in the car and get it started while you let the BG know to BACK OFF.
 
Did you have a flashlight?

No.

Cell phone?

Yes.

Did you call it in?

No. What would I call in..."an ugly guy looked in our car window"?

Any force options available to you beside the revolver in your pocket, like pepper spray?

No.

Any reason you didn't cross to the other side of the street to avoid coming into close proximity to a group of people who looked hinky?

Ya know...I just took a virtual look at the scene with google maps that includes a 360 degree photo street view.

Enter "8th ave & howell street seattle wa".

Amazing way to enhance your memory of an incident...but I digress.

It turns out the street median has a sidewalk connected by crosswalks that would have allowed us to get to the car without passing directly by them.

That would not have prevented the possibility of them converging on us as we got to the car.

But stilll...I should have seen that.

Note to self: Don't let an interesting conversation - or any other distraction - cause you to lose sight of what is going around you.

Who was driving?

My brother.

Where were you in the car?

Front passenger.
 
What would I call in..."an ugly guy looked in our car window"?

A group of males acting in a suspicious manner, is what I would have reported. When asked why I was calling, I would have said they followed us to our car and acted in a hostile manner.

Most likely I'd have called it in on the city PD's admin number, not 911, since it wasn't an emergency, but I would have reported it anyway just on GP. With as much description of each individual as I could manage as well. Not just because of what they did to you, but in case they actually did mug someone else later in that area.

lpl
 
8th ave & howell street seattle wa

I took a look at the 360 deg. street view. Looks like a nice area- note the sign for "Luxury Condos" being built and the new commercial building across the street. Was this construction still going on, or is the google image old? Unfortunately, places like this can have a completely different character in the night than they do in the day. Denver is filled with areas like this- very trendy and busy during the day and evening, but after 9-10 pm, the whole essence changes. The shops/non-bar restaurants close, any residents lock their doors/pull the blinds, and the local predators come out to go hunting...
 
A group of males acting in a suspicious manner, is what I would have reported. When asked why I was calling, I would have said they followed us to our car and acted in a hostile manner...Not just because of what they did to you, but in case they actually did mug someone else later in that area.

You're right, Lee...I should have called for that reason.


Was this construction still going on, or is the google image old? Unfortunately, places like this can have a completely different character in the night than they do in the day.

Construction is still ongoing - that picture appears to be fairly recent. It is definitely not a seedy part of town. As you say, things change when the restaurants and theatres close. Ours was one of two cars left in the parking lot.
 
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