Police Approach on the Firing Range

[ArmedBear]

I think it's always a good idea to give a LEO as much peace of mind as possible in a situation like that.

Exactly. He's not there to hurt you; do us all a favor and make sure you improve relations between cops and recreational shooters. Don't do something that will make it worse for all of us. And remember, the cop is just a human being, doing his dangerous job as best he can.

That said, I'm with those who say they pack when target shooting. Most shooters here open-carry a holstered sidearm while shooting in open public target shooting areas. I believe I have a responsibility to myself, my family and my community to keep the guns on the bench from being stolen and used against me or anyone else. Open carry in a shooting area doesn't tend to make the police nervous, either.

 

[evan price]

I checked Other because I open carry at the public outdoor shooting spots, Sig P239 in OWB paddleback, it may be shot but only if something else is handy loaded. The Miami robbery shootout with the FBI was a real eye opener once I read it, that Matix & his partner Platt would ambush people shooting in public areas and murder them, steal car, and guns, and go on robbing sprees. I used to be a lot more trusting until I discovered the FBI report of their actions. Turns out one of them from around Dayton Ohio way originally.
Anyway I checked other because my CCW is actually open carried at the range. However, I would make sure the officer knew I had it, keep hands in sight and away from gun, and wait to see what the cop wants. Why make his life hard?

 

[Deathrider1579]

I had a cop drive up while I was shooting with some friends. I stepped away from our guns and asked if I could help the officer (who I had just seen stop at the pistol range and look arround). His buddy got out of another car and yelled across the range "Jim-Bob why the he** did you bring your po-lece car?!? Every bodys gonna think your F***ing with them." It was funny to me and we chatted about ARs a while ahh good times.

-DR

 

[leadcounsel]

Poorly written poll, but I'll play.

When shooting in an open space, pit, what-have-you, I am ALWAYS carrying a sidearm CCW and when I go down range I ALWAYS sling a rifle over my shoulder. If I'm shooting with someone else, one of us stays behind to watch our weapons from theft.

The last time I was shooting we were there a couple hours and were visited once by a department of natural resources officer, who asked us to clean up after ourselves and weirdly "confiscated" one of our targets - an old aluminum sink, but left all the other targets. The police officer just walked around and browsed our weapons for a few minutes, chatted with all of the shooters briefly, and left.

I honestly don't think they have a clue what they're doing, just making a presence. They didn't even question my friends Short Barreled Rifle (which does have a tax stamp).

To answer the question, when the LEO shows up, I put down my rifles but leave my CCW where it is. If asked if I"m carrying I honestly would say 'yes' but I think they know the answer. Everyone there is carrying and we're shooting a zillion guns.

I don't want to make them nervous by reaching for the gun, I just set down my weapon I'm shooting and greet the LEO politely, answer their questions, and get back to shooting when they are satisfied with whatever brougth them to the range.

I certainly don't want to be shot by a nervous cop because I am carrying my loaded "assault rifle". Cops know that their armor offers little protection from rifle rounds, which makes them quite nervous around rifles. And especially since I would be dead, regardless of the outcome for the LEO.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Alright, I'll bite.

The issue was raised "What if he asks if you are armed and says 'Turn around and lift up your shirts.'" I shoot in MN, where I hold a valid carry permit. As such I always have my Glock on me. If I'm shooting that, I stick a full mag in it while I'm reloading the one I'm shooting.

If a cop said that to me my first reaction would be "No. I have a valid permit and I'm legally carrying." I would be very disinclined (Pirates of the Carribbean word) to play spin around in a circle when I'm clearly in the right. What say you?

 

[kansas45]

I agree with Oldtimer. LEO's are for the most part just doing their job. They are overworked & under paid. most of them have familey's & loved one's waiting for them to return safely home after their shift. I know that there are a few that have a chip on their shoulder's, but they are few & far between. At least around here. We need to respect each & every one of them & not give them any reason to to think we mean them any harm. I know that it is a pain to have to deal with them when we are not doing anything wrong, & at a public range or on private land. But, just remember. They have every right to be warry of what Joe public is capable of doing. Just smile, be friendly & show them some respect & they will do the same for you. I voted other just for these reason's.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

kansas45:

I agree with Oldtimer. LEO's are for the most part just doing their job. They are overworked & under paid.

If they feel they are overworked and underpaid, they should consider a career or employer change. Seriously, why should we put up with surly cops because they are "overworked and underpaid?"

On another note, a lot of shooting is done on private land. Land where it is not a crime to shoot. So, if there's no crime, where does the authority for police to enter private property and then investigate a non-crime come from?

 

[pdowg881]

If they have reason to beleive someone is in danger aren't they allowed to enter private property? Because they could bend that to justify coming on your land. I myself have never been armed within a mile of an LEO so I have no idea though. Good info here though. I wouldn't want to make a cop nervous at all.

 

[Andrew S]

What should my first action have been?

My first action would have been to greet the officer. This puts the ball in his court and he can tell you what he wants you to do. He is doing his job and investigating a call. You werent doing anything wrong so your job becomes assisting his investigation and doing what makes him comfortable. Answer his questions honestly and comply with his requests as long as they do not interfere with your rights.

 

[Andrew S]

If a cop said that to me my first reaction would be "No. I have a valid permit and I'm legally carrying." I would be very disinclined (Pirates of the Carribbean word) to play spin around in a circle when I'm clearly in the right. What say you?

Not complying with the police officer will probably result in a car ride and 24hours of you wondering why you didnt do something as simple as lifting your shirt and turning around.

 

[ArmedBear]

On another note, a lot of shooting is done on private land. Land where it is not a crime to shoot. So, if there's no crime, where does the authority for police to enter private property and then investigate a non-crime come from?

That's a Catch-22.

If you called the police and said, "I just heard a lot of shooting from the house next door!" but the dispatcher said, "I'm sorry, that's private property. It's legal to shoot there. Nothing we can do," you'd be exasperated.

I see both sides.

 

[WeedWhacker]

If a cop said that to me my first reaction would be "No. I have a valid permit and I'm legally carrying." I would be very disinclined (Pirates of the Carribbean word) to play spin around in a circle when I'm clearly in the right. What say you?

Not complying with the police officer will probably result in a car ride and 24hours of you wondering why you didnt do something as simple as lifting your shirt and turning around.

... and an immediate civil lawsuit against city and officer for unlawful search, unlawful arrest, etc., etc. Fourth Amendment and all that pesky stuff. No warrant, no search-ee.

 

[cavman]

Personal story:

We were blasting away in Saco, Maine and were deep in the sand barrens. Afterwards, when we were leaving, the three of us noticed a handful of cops near the entrance. We continued on towards them (after slowing a few steps to think why they might be there).

When we arrived there were two cars and either three or four of them. After the usual pleasantries, we were told that we can't actually discharge in the town limits. whoops.

Anyways my 12 gauge was lying on the roof of my car and one of the cops non-chalantly reached and picked it up. I didn't like that at all, and reached over and took it out of his hands and checked to doubley make sure that it was certainly empty. Opened the pump, made sure that it was, and handed it back to him.

He ended up taking it back to his cruiser and running the numbers...please. Came back a few minutes later and said, "Have a nice day, and don't forget next time that we can't do this again".

Bottom line, treat everyone decently, and I believe most situations will work out for the best.

have a great day,
cavman

ps. regarding the original post I would just walk up to him as I would any other man in a position of respect, I guess.

 

[Steve in PA]

... and an immediate civil lawsuit against city and officer for unlawful search, unlawful arrest, etc., etc. Fourth Amendment and all that pesky stuff. No warrant, no search-ee.

LOL...........yeah, ok.

First, a warrant is not needed to do a search-ee.

Second, if the LEO is responding to a call about someone shooting in an area not designated as a "range", he has ever reason to believe that you are armed and because of this can pat you down. Search-ee without warrant

 

[jman74]

Been approached several times by police and game wardens on my own land. Repeat after me..."i'm well over 500 feet from the nearest building, I have a safe back stop, and No Trespassing signs are posted every fifty feet surrounding my 12 acres." Then say "you're welcome to join me." They always leave. Usually this occurs during the beginning on bow season here in Ct. I like to clear out all of the guys hunting without permission by opening up the SKS at first light...

 

[WeedWhacker]

We were firing on someone else's private land, though we had permission to be there.

First, a warrant is not needed to do a search.
Second, if the LEO is responding to a call about someone shooting in an area not designated as a "range", he has ever reason to believe that you are armed and because of this can pat you down. Search without warrant.

And you're basing this on... what? Unless a law is being violated (and since there were no arrests, let's assume none were) there is no cause for arrest. Without cause for arrest, there is no cause for searching someone on private property, their own, or there with the permission of the owner.

I'm all for educating myself, but your post screams of nothing but inflammatory half-truths at best. Might want to back it up with a reference to law/case law or some such.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

First off a “Terry Pat” can be conducted when an officer believes you might have weapons on you, this search is limited to areas where a weapon could be concealed.

A shots fired call, where upon arrival you can plainly see weapons would give rise to anyone…

When I conduct a search of this scope, near my patrol car I usually do it in front of my car where the camera is located and running, as per our SOP each and everytime we get out of the car. This way the search is on tape, which shows the court exactly what I did but most importantly IF you react in a manor, which causes me alarm during the course of the search, it too will be caught on tape.

Having said that we answer shots fired calls all the time and typically its folks target practicing. In the described incident the encounter would last all of about 5 minutes and everyone would be on his or her way. Rural areas also give rise to trespassers and kids just playing around so just snooping.

So you are in your right to temporarily enter upon private property to investigate and no court would fault you for doing so.

There is a call for service, shots fired which agreed usually is benign but the one call you just brush off as nothing would be the one where someone came onto your 100 acres approached you on the back porch and shot you now you lay in your yard bleeding to death while I brush it off as BS and not come down your driveway and attempt to make contact with you, the homeowner all the which some geeked up meth head is going thru your house looking to take your stuff thinking you are dead in the backyard.

 

[WeedWhacker]

First off a “Terry Pat” can be conducted when an officer believes you might have weapons on you, this search is limited to areas where a weapon could be concealed.

This is *different* than asking someone to lift their shirt, etc. Additionally, if the concealed weapon is being carried lawfully, there is NOTHING which can be done about it. Not legally, anyhow.
If I have a concealed weapon, and an officer asked me directly if I was carrying weapons, I would tell him "yes". Anything further, such as disarming, etc., would not be done; the only legal thing required in Nevada is to produce the CCW license when asked. The obvious exception here is if I were being placed under arrest... in which case the officer had better be doing the disarming, as having people you're arresting handling loaded firearms is downright stupid.

 

[mrmeval]

I just assume they are there to shoot and ignore them unless they specifically come over and want to talk.

The only one I recall wanted to look at a new toy I had.

The park rangers are the ones that police the range, they can ticket for no CCW (Indiana 1st time misdemeanor, 2nd time felony) if you have a pistol.

They mostly enforce range rules and .... also like to look at toys.

 

[Hokkmike]

I probably would wave and smile and go about my business. If he approached me then I would see what he wanted as a course of action, advising him that I was carrying a properly licensed weapon.

I have often wondered if I had a pistol in my glove box and was pulled over for a traffic violation how the trooper would react as I announced "I carry a legal pistol in the glovebox where my wallet is; what do you want me to do?" - but it has never happened.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

TheFederalistWeasel:

So you are in your right to temporarily enter upon private property to investigate and no court would fault you for doing so.

There is a call for service, shots fired which agreed usually is benign but the one call you just brush off as nothing would be the one where someone came onto your 100 acres approached you on the back porch and shot you now you lay in your yard bleeding to death while I brush it off as BS and not come down your driveway and attempt to make contact with you, the homeowner all the which some geeked up meth head is going thru your house looking to take your stuff thinking you are dead in the backyard.

At my country place you have to go 3/8 mile down a private road (I'm half owner) before getting to my driveway. I've a solar gate about 1/4 mile off said private road in the woods. There's no other way in and their's a hill just inside the gate that blocks any view of the rest of the property. What would you do, Federalist, climb over the gate and walk in? Climb over the gate and attempt to disconnect the gate mechanism, open the gate and drive in or what?

 

[Steve in PA]

"And you're basing this on... what? Unless a law is being violated (and since there were no arrests, let's assume none were) there is no cause for arrest. Without cause for arrest, there is no cause for searching someone on private property, their own, or there with the permission of the owner.

I'm all for educating myself, but your post screams of nothing but inflammatory half-truths at best. Might want to back it up with a reference to law/case law or some such."

First, just because no one was arrested doesn't mean no laws were broken. It could have been a minor infraction such as discharging a firearm within city, town, borough limits, etc. Lets say this was the case, I would have checked the person(s) out, including checking for weapons and have them move along.

Second, just because someone claims to have permission to be on the property doesn't mean they HAVE permission. If you are indeed the property owner I would probably bet you would be thankfull for the LEO to be checking up on people here, this of course happens when and if the LEO does not immediately recognize the person as the property owner.

I'll pull all the case law you want, but I'd look in the mirror before spouting off about inflammitory half-truths.

 

[Steve in PA]

This is *different* than asking someone to lift their shirt, etc. Additionally, if the concealed weapon is being carried lawfully, there is NOTHING which can be done about it. Not legally, anyhow.
If I have a concealed weapon, and an officer asked me directly if I was carrying weapons, I would tell him "yes". Anything further, such as disarming, etc., would not be done; the only legal thing required in Nevada is to produce the CCW license when asked. The obvious exception here is if I were being placed under arrest... in which case the officer had better be doing the disarming, as having people you're arresting handling loaded firearms is downright stupid.

There is no difference between a physical "pat down" or a visual check.

If the LEO has reason to stop and have an interaction with you, you can and will be disarmed.

The LEO must be able to articulate what that reason is, not just walking up to you though. If we are walking along the same street, stop and engage in conversation (where is XYZ Street, etc) then no, you won't be disarmed if found to be carrying. If the reason for the interaction is more of an investigation type thing, then you probably will be.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

I have climbed over fences or gates to enter property where a suspicious person was reported; I did so just last night on a similar call.

Usually if I made the decision to do so, there would be well founded circumstances such as obvious signs someone was on the property or multiple calls reporting similar incidents not just one call.

Everytime I have entered upon another’s property for this reason I always made an effort to make contact with the owner and they were always grateful I did what I did.

Neighbors out here are nosey in a good way, they tend to know what is right and what is not right at the houses their neighbors live at and we rely this information.

If you do a lot of shooting on your property your neighbors will know this and probably not call us, but if you don’t and they hear shots being fired they most likely will. This is what we go on a good percentage of the time, if it causes a reasonable alarm in your neighbor then I feel obligated to make sure you are alright and not the victim of a nut who just walked up and shot you in the butt while you were standing in your garage.

I’m not there to “trespass” upon your property for the purpose of committing a crime I’m there to do a job.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Give FedWeaz some credit. If it was my property I wouldn't mind an LEO checking up. As he said, he's just going to check, this ain't Waco.

At my best friend's former farm, we used to shoot all the time. Once, I remember an LEO came up to us while we were shooting, and I had a Ruger p95 in a fobus holster on my belt. He had an AK with a loaded mag (we follow the idea of have atleast one long gun loaded in case someone tries to some up on you while your shooting), he dropped the rifle automatically, and I said to the cop, "I'm gonna clear my weapon officer. Then did so after he nodded okay.

Told us he got a noise complaint from the next door neighbor who was well, somewhat cranky anyway.

We said no problem, and packed up. The officer asked us what we were doing, and I explained just shooting stuff. He asked if we go to KU (this farm was outside of Lawrence Kansas) and I said no. Then, he said okay, and told us we should ask the lady that lived next to the farm (who was a Cali transplant anti, ughh) before we did shooting in the future to save the trip.

(Apparently, she thought we were shooting machineguns, bwahahahaha)