Let me hunt for free, you jerk

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DoubleNaught:
Not by any law you don't. Feeding wild or domestic stock does not make it yours.

Of course I know that the land owner does not "own" them, even so to speak. I was speaking figuratively. Landowner does not own the surface water in Texas either.

That aside, farmers and ranchers can take deer out of season that are a nuisance with permission from the game protectors (wardens). You do own domestic animals, cattle, goats, sheep, and so forth; but not because you feed them but because you bought them or they were created by animals you do own. You do not own deer even at a high fence operation, I believe. You can have exotics on your land and hunt them when you believe it appropriate. You can't do anything you want to, but you do own domestic animals. I'm not a lawyer either.
 
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Private land is just that, private. It's for sale everywhere. Pony up your money and make all the rules you want.

For all those "subsidies=welfare" people, I'll tell you how to get your own "farm welfare":

You take your first million dollars and buy some productive farmland. Then, you take your second million and buy all your equipment. Next you take $250,000 or so and buy your fuel, fertilizer and seed. Then you plant and hope and pray for a good growing season. If the weather cooperates, you then get to work 25 hours a day for a few weeks harvesting. After all this, you carry your crops to market. While there, they will tell you what you will be paid for your crop. It may be enough to cover the fuel, fertilizer and seed and make a payment on your land and equipment (or it may not). Now (stick with me, this is where the "welfare" comes in) if you've filed all your paperwork, followed all the rules and ask real nicely the gov. may send you you a check for pennies on the acre. See, anyone can do it.
 
Some of my hunting friends believe that since the state (public) owns the wild game pay to hunt is wrong. Some of my hunting friends believe that since the land owner has no choice but to feed and 'house' the wild game, fee to hunt is a reasonable trade-off. I agree with my hunting friends.

In the Midwest the pay to harvest model is catching hold and I believe that is generally a good thing. After all, if a land owner's fee is too high you can shop around and you will find something. My wife's oldest brother owns 250 or so acres in southwest central Illinois about an hour from St. Louis. Some tillable, some in mature hardwoods that has been logged in the last 10 years. The offers he is getting for that land per acre from people who only want the land for hunting is amazing - seven figures for the land and going up every year. It is prime hunting and he knows what he has; so far he lets a few friends hunt and has it posted not that that stops people as he has run-ins with often the same people every year and these encounters keep escalating in intensity. Someone is going to get hurt of these days and I just hope he has his ducks in a row when it happens.
 
In the Midwest the pay to harvest model is catching hold and I believe that is generally a good thing. After all, if a land owner's fee is too high you can shop around and you will find something.

Just hope it don't get to the point that leasing has in Texas, a rich man's endeavor. While I certainly support property rights, (after all, who pays the taxes on the property?) the price of a decent deer/hog lease in Texas is way out of the working man's budget, at least if he wants to retire and have anything to retire on. It's simple supply and demand. There's enough demand out there from the rich urbanites and corporations with corporate leases and such and land supply is finite even in Texas. But, there are alternatives, and even though I didn't buy what Art has, I, too, saw the writing on the wall and bought what I could when I could. And, I mean, I looked upon it as an investment. It has tripled in value, too, so not a bad investment even though you'd have to figure the taxes I've paid over the last 20 years, but hey, better taxes than five times as much per year leasing a deer lease, right?

Gripe about it all you want, but facts are facts, you wanna play, you gotta pay. Hell, I'm going to book a December goose hunt today for me and a buddy, 1/2 day, $175 a person. It's not about the meat, can tell ya that! Add to that 2 bucks a round for hevi shot, hell, but we'll have a LOT of fun I'll bet! You gotta do what you gotta do if you wanna hunt. We have a lot of free and good duck hunting around here, one reason I got into duck hunting, but you need land to hunt on for anything else you wanna do.

I can guarantee you one thing, you can go to Austin and lobby all you want from free rights to hunt land, but you'll find you won't get too many ears to listen to you on that, and rightfully so. :rolleyes:
 
If the landowner wasn't asking for a favor, then don't expect him/her to view the hunter's expectation/desire to hunt for free as being a favor. Instead, it just sounds like mooching. If you want to hunt hogs for free, buy your own land.

I have my own land, thanks for asking. :) I was just trying to look at this in an unbiased, academic sort of way.
 
As a land owner, let me point out that there is an expense connected with allowing people to hunt on your land. The land owner has to pick up their trash. He has to repair the ruts they leave to wash. He has to find his livestock they let roam when they left the gates open. He loses the occasional animal to some hunter's mistake.

Now, if a perfect stranger showed up at your home, asked to use your house for a few days for free, and then left it a mess, left the doors and windows open, damaged your rain gutters, and shot your dog -- would you welcome the next strange who knocked on your door?
 
...would you welcome the next strange[r] who knocked on your door?

Nope, but I probably wouldn't have welcomed the first ones, either.

This gets to my basic point. I think landowners are not only right to charge for access, they'd be crazy not to.

It's not just a matter of hunters, either. If had rare butterflies in my back yard, I'd charge people to come take pictures of them. Not because I'm greedy, but because long after the butterflyophiles (or whatever they're called) have left, I'd be stuck with their Dorito bags and Mountain Dew bottles, and have to pay to fix the fences, windows, and whatever else gets trashed along the way.

Because, sure as I'm sitting here, no good deed goes unpunished.

That being said, if I had paying "regulars" who had demonstrated their respect and good manners, I'd not only welcome them back but give 'em a call when something new showed up and let them drop by for free. They'd have crossed the threshold from "stranger" to "friend" by then.

But would I let just anyone invite themselves onto my property? Not likely.
 
I was just trying to look at this in an unbiased, academic sort of way.

You might have been trying to look at it in an academic sort of way, but the guys who want to hunt for free aren't doing it as a favor to me, a land owner. They are doing it because they want some place to hunt for free because they want the enjoyment of hunting, the bounty of the meat, etc. On top of that, they want to hunt what they want to hunt, not necessarily the game I consider to be pests.

Nobody showed up at our place in NM, wanting to hunt mice and rats so as to help slow the spread of hantavirus. Where were those kind hearted good Sams then?

No, they are not wanting to hunt hogs on my land for free just because they want to do me a favor.
 
No, they are not wanting to hunt hogs on my land for free just because they want to do me a favor.
And when I want someone to help me by hunting the deer, bear, turkeys, hogs, squirrels, rabbits, and so on on my land, I'll ask them. Until then, no point in coming out and volunteering.:rolleyes:
 
In Ohio I believe the legislature has passed an indemnity law (may not be exactly the correct term) that protects a land owner from law suits if a land owner allows the public to hunt. In Ohio a land owner can apply for and get nuisance permit(s) (except during deer season) if the land owner is sustaining crop damage.

Edited to add:

I don't know if this protection is extended to pay-to-hunt operations. Logic would tell me it isn't.
 
Virginia has passed the same law .308 mentioned which allows landowners to invite hunters onto their property without fearing a lawsuit if someone gets hurt. I think that is a good thing for those who do allow others on their property. Me, I don't allow anyone except some family members.

This topic is a pet peeve of mine. So this allows me to vent a little. A land owner is KING of his property. He can do anything he wishes and what anyone thinks about it is not even relevant.

Some guys were complaining about posted land, and when they heard mine is, they started giving me a hard time. I asked them if they leave the keys in their cars for anyone to use it that comes by. Of course, they said, no. Well, it is the same thing. And everyone isn't like this, but many people think that the people who have something they don't ought to give it to them. Yes, some people are greedy, uncaring louts, but there is a difference in giving a starving man some food and letting someone have a vacation on your land.

Everyone can't afford land, but everyone can decide what their priorities are. If you like to spend all your money on booze and running around every weekend, then don't feel like you have the right to bitch at someone who put their money somewhere else. If your atv payment is more important than a land payment, who's fault is that? I recall a queer singer who looked down on his friends for buying food instead of blowing their money on male prostitutes and drugs like he did. But after he got what he wanted most, he tried to mooch the food!

Nothing wrong with asking, but no use in being mad when turned down either. Hunting has been such a major priority in my life that I made sure I lived where I could hunt. I bought a cabin in the heart of National Forest when I was 19 years old and lived there until I was 28. (I worked every day and made payments.) When it was time to get married and move, my wife knew before hand that having hunting land close by was important to me, and we bought 45 acres in the country. My land is geared 100% to my hunting pleasure. I have 1 creek that runs all the time, 2 wet weather branches, and 2 springs, and 2 small food plots. I have old logging roads all over and a deer never has to be dragged any farther than 50 yards. I can still hunt on the trails or sit in one of my several ladder stands. Yes, I am bragging, but I am paying for it. Not only that, but I have worked my tail off cutting shooting lanes. planting stuff, making fields, and keeping the trails drivable. That was before an accident and a condition that left me only able to do piddly stuff now, which made all that work even more of a pay off for me.

I like seeing other people enjoy hunting, and I don't like the idea that hunting may only be available to the rich and elite. Still, it isn't my responsibility to give that ability to every one that comes along looking for it.

You know, I have my own business, and I have a lot of customers who ask me if they can hunt on my land. (And though I would turn them down, I've never been invited to hunt on someone else!) I've always said no except once. I had one guy that I had done a few small jobs for, but said he was going to bring me a big job, and he asked if he could hunt. I appreciated the big job, but I just liked the guy. You know what I mean? I thought I would be good to him and let hunt. He liked to bow hunt, so I told him he could come during bow season and I would show him a stand he could sit in. Do you know what that sucker said? "No. I'll come during rifle season and sit where I want to." There is no way in my life time he will ever set foot in my woods, and I don't care if I get that big job or not.

Done venting now, and back to being happy. :)
 
its different from one place to another, up in minnesota, it used to be that all the logging land from the paper companies and pulp mills was open for hunting, now they are charging for leases. all the state land was good land for hunting for years, but now we have so many loonies out, you have to go a long way to get away from the city folk and the Hmong, who have a different set of values about what works in the woods.

The paper mill started charging because they are getting squeezed by revenue seekers and stockholders, who seem to think that everything must have a price.

I think the whole issue has gotten out of hand, with state forests now being leased out to lumber companies, who in turn lease that lands hunting rights out. you all of a sudden get a sport that is supposed to help the environment getting Elitist and cost driven, cutting the amounts of money raised by licenses and taxes on the supplies, in turn decreasing the opportunity of new hunters to get a start.
 
In Texas your land is your land.

Do the land owners also own the wildlife? No. Do you get to go on another person's land and shoot yourself a critter because you want to? No. Do you got to like it? No, but you do have to stay off of private property unless invited.
 
Wow, what a thread.

I can conclude a few things from this thread.

1. Some people feel entitled that shouldn't, both landowners and hunters alike. However, landowners have paid for their land, there are some nice perks that come with that.

2. Texas is becoming the elitist rich man hunting ground and edging out the regular joe. Go figure, the gap has been widening for a long time, no big news here.

3. The West is a much better place to live for public hunting opportunities than nearly anywhere else.

4. A lot of hunters are just plain slobs and seem to forget why they lose their privileges. You trash someone's land by leaving garbage, tearing up trails with your truck or atv, and leave gates open (or closed), then don't cry when you lose the privilege.

5. People are dumba$$es, this thread has reiterated that fact over and over. Not that I'm calling any posters such, but you have all shared plenty of anecdotes about them.

6. I don't think I would ever ask to hunt on anyone's land personally unless they were family, and probably not even then. I'd wait for an invite and I got one this year. It was quite a privilege and I did as much as I possibly could to show my appreciation for that privilege. I had another fellow that was going to join me but landed himself in some hot water from a legal issue between him and his girlfriend. He is a safe hunter, but takes his drinking after the fact too seriously IMO and I feared he would ruin my chances of future return trips. I don't have to worry about that now and I figure if the land doesn't sell, I might just get invited back. I will not be adding this fellow onto any more party hunt tags though.

7. Decent folks are hard to find, when you do find them, treat them well. Trust me, I know, I have in-laws with denial issues you would not believe.
 
I don't own the game on my land. Its only mine when its dead. I invite people to hunt because i own the land. If you want to hunt for free spend the money and buy your own land or use public land.
 
It keeps gung-ho idiots out of your property. Just read through this forum's threads pertaining to those crazy/dangerous hunting situations that were initiated by someone's blatantly stupid mistakes. If we know the person, then yeah we let them hunt. New people earn our trust, but after that we let them hunt on some of our land all the time. It's like that all around East Texas.
 
308Win... Ohio has had the law to protect landowners should people hunting their land get hurt for a very long time. I printed off some copies some years ago and had one laminated to help open up a few doors.

I'll dig up the ORC # if you're interested.

Steve
 
Ohio Revised Code 1533.181: Exemption from liability to recreational users

This comes off of an old Ohio "Permission for Hunting or Trapping on Private Land " published by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources.
 
"Allow me to suggest that if you think fee hunting or locking off access is so wrong. Why dont you go buy or lease a few thousand acres and put up hunter welcome signs ? You too can then have the joys of being a Landowner and attending to the cost and matienence that others on your property seems to bring sure as night follows day . "

If you're talking about leasing privately owned land or state trust land, I must agree. If you're talking about grazing leases on federal lands (BLM or NFS), then you're dead wrong. Grazing leases on public lands are just that: grazing leases. They include nothing else and anyone attempting to exclude the public from those lands should have his leases cancelled.
 
Org I was speaking specifically to private land . Since the stepdad has a grazing lease on the Commanchie National Grasslands i am well aware of the lease conditions, and wouldnt even want to change access to that land in any way . It is after all Public land that we lease to graze calves on , not land we own and pay taxes on .
 
Clear enough, Redneckrepairs. We're on the same side, then. Thanks for the reply.
 
i have never herd of paying a land owner to hunt on his land, usually permission written or verbal, and some of the meat from what ever you kill!
and maybe a xmas card at christmas lol
 
xd45gaper, you can learn a lot at this forum. :)

Leasing has been common in Texas since WW II, that I personally know of. It's more common in the south, SFAIK, than in northern private-lands states. The custom is growing, though, as farmers/ranchers have come to need more money to cope with the reduced profitability of tradional on-farm/on-ranch efforts.

Art
 
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