lets discuss 7.62 NATO semi auto platforms.

[Welding Rod]

Of the choices mentioned I would lean to the AR10 for ergonomics and the accuracy claims I have read about - though I have never owned one. I woul like to. Particularly if I was going to put an optic on it.

I would not put a scope on a M1A. I like the M1a, but would not buy anything other than a Loaded (due to the med. match barrel) unless I could shoot it first and then measure the brass. My Standard stretches brass way worse than any gun I have ever shot. I love my Loaded which is accurate, as is my Standard, but also is gentle on brass. I assume this is due to a tighter chamber dimension.

Personally, I would consider a M1 Garand if you can tolerate excellent iron sights. You can get a beautiful virtually unused CMP Springfield Armory Service Grade Special for under $1,000. Clips are cheap. Down side is you would probably want to start loading your own ammo to feed it if you don't already.

I think an M1 in like new condition is worlds better in build quality than a M1A. It also has a very soft recoil impulse if that is important to you.

 

[Danco411]

AR platform all the way. 2 MOA is hard for the FAL, PTR and Saiga. They are reliable but not inherently accurate. A quality AR platform in .308 will be 1 MOA at 100 and light years better than anything other auto loader out past 500. Armalite makes nice rifles but I'm more into the DPMS platform. Parts are easier to get and less expensive. The 1k DPMS basic AP4 platform will be wicked accurate right out of the box. There are also some great companies making excellent parts if you into building. Here's my Mega MaTen build that is sub MOA and I have just shy of 2k into it. All top tier parts. Weighs 9 lbs without optics.

 

[Ash]

Four grand for an M14-type rifle in order to get accuracy is absurd. You can get quality 14's for far less.

 

[stsimons]

Based on the criteria put forth by the OP, I would suggest a PTR91 GI model with the wood furniture.

1) $999 from CDNN
2) Original HK spec chamber flutes means it will reliably eat any garbage ammo you feed it
3) 2 MOA is realistic with irons, less with an original Hendsholt 4x scope and claw mount
4) Read #2 - and used around the world by all kinds of good guys and bad guys alike
5) Cheapest mags you will ever find and parts are everywhere

 

[mf-dif]

The redone Sig 556r seems to be getting well reviews.

 

[gunfighter48]

Here's my DPMS LR 308 with a lot of cosmetic mods but it's running a standard factory barrel and receiver. I put in a Timney 4 lb trigger and changed it from a carbine to rifle stock with the rifle buffer tube, buffer spring, and buffer. It shoots sub MOA all day with factory ammo. It cost me $1099.00 at the local Cabelas. It's got 320 rounds down the barrel and is 100% reliable. DPMS has several 308s in your price range.



Here's a couple of my targets with factory TAP FPD and AMAX 168gr ammo. The groups are .655" to .757". At 64 I'm not the greatest shot anymore but I do have my moments!

 

[henschman]

I'd say an Armalite AR-10 meets your criteria the best.

They will do under 2 MOA; they are well-built and have chrome-lined barrels standard, which helps with reliability, especially if you are going to be shooting steel case (which kind of negates the accuracy requirement, but that's your problem); they have lighter-profile barrels standard, which means they don't weigh too much in case it ends up on MBR duty.

They aren't the only one in the .308 AR game, but they are the best you can get within your price range IMO.

Another option would be a Bushmaster .308. They have chrome lined lighter-profile barrels as well. I am a little leery of anything coming out of the Freedom Group (their parent company) lately though. I would trust an Armalite more, and plus they have 20" barrels available, which I would prefer for a MBR.

You could do a lot worse than a Saiga too. The 16" barreled ones at least will usually do 2 MOA or so.

 

[pseudonymity]

If you really need 2MOA or better accuracy, I think you are really looking at the FNAR or AR pattern rifles. The roller delayed actions chew up brass for reloading and the rifles specifically designed for military use tend to be 2-4MOA in most cases (but some examples can shoot much better). The FNAR is guaranteed 1MOA, but does not have the military history of the M1A, FAL, PTR91, etc. A SCAR would have both combat reliability and accuracy, but not for $1500. Or you could just buy a decent .308 bolt for precision work and a Saiga for blasting and still be under $1500 before optics.

 

[jdh]

The AR10 is a design similar to the AR15, which fouls the chamber with dirty gases,

How does it accomplish this feat?

 

[Wildbillz]

Welding Rod

Personally, I would consider a M1 Garand if you can tolerate excellent iron sights. You can get a beautiful virtually unused CMP Springfield Armory Service Grade Special for under $1,000. Clips are cheap. Down side is you would probably want to start loading your own ammo to feed it if you don't already.

I think an M1 in like new condition is worlds better in build quality than a M1A. It also has a very soft recoil impulse if that is important to you.
__________________

I am with Welding Rod on this one. Get yourself a Decent Garand and have it rebarreled to 7.62 Nato (or just keep it in 30-06 and reload for it). In fact I think the CMP has some Navy ones in 308 for sale right now? Parts can still be had but there not dirt cheap. You could buy two or three rack / field grade M1's and strip them down for parts. Sell off the receviers and un-needed parts and I would bet you might come out all right as far as replacement parts go. Cool thing about using USGI parts and a USGI receiver. You can rebuild the whole gun in the field with a minamum of tools. First think to get would be a copy of the M1 Garand owners guid by Scott Duff. Its packed with lots of good info. Then go over to Fulton Armorys websight and see if they still have the recomended spair parts lits. Clint broke it down to where you could have enough parts to make an M1 last a life time or two. Read up on them a bit and see if you can find a buddy that has one you can take for a test drive. Clips are cheap, well under a buck each if you buy them right. I think the last time I bought them I paid $35. per 100 or so (but thats been 10 or 15 years back). Its not a hi-cap assult rifle but it will still get the job done (out to 1000 yard in the hands of the right shooter with Iron sights).

Just my .02 on it
YMMV

WB

 

[barnbwt]

I guess since we're doing photos now, and the FNAR hasn't been represented

Konus M30 tacticool light-up reticle scope with ridiculous sunshade. Magazine is absent due to I'm not shooting, but the 20rnd is a bit longer than the grip--you'll need a bipod for anything but the 5rnd hunting mag. FNARs are going on GB for around 950$ it seems. Easily the best guaranteed MOA for your dollar these days. I got mine used right a 900$ a year or so ago.

The rubber butt and comb on the stock can be swapped out with three larger/smaller thicknesses, and the stock drop is adjustable with slanted washers at its based (like Benelli shotguns, IIRC). If weight is a factor for you all those steel rails are removable--probably a pound or two there. The stock can be replaced with a modified BAR Shotrac synth buttstock for another bit of weight loss (no rubber comb). If you get the light profile short barrel, you'd have a gun lighter than most military platforms. The AR10 would win out, simply because of the amount of plastic in it's reciever(s) whereas the FNAR is 7075 aluminum.

You could also get the progenitor of the FAL, the SAFN49 in 7.62 with 20rnd detachable mag (Argentine contract, only). Elegant looks of the Garand, vaunted action of the FAL (well, close enough, anyway). One on GB for 875$. I am thoroughly pleased with the Luxembourger in 30-06 . Now that I think about it, I may be bidding on this rifle soon--they're that good
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=317608855

You can see from an aesthetics standpoint why they went with a pistol grip for the 20rnd FNAR

TCB

 

[Reloadron]

1. The rifle has to be $1500.00 or less.

2. The rifle has to to handle both metal cased surplus and hand loaded ammo.

3. The rifle will shoot 2 moa or less at 100 yards. Hopefully much less. I just dont want to rule out all the options right away.

4. The rifle has to reliable enough to be used as a MBR.

5. Spare parts and mags should be obtainable easily and at a reasonable cost.

I was one of those who earlier voted in the direction of an Armalite AR 10 rifle. A working budget of $1,500 gets you into some pretty good rifles. They may not all deliver 2 MOA off the shelf but the possibilities are there.

I have seen the M1 Garand suggested. I have a few and do not see this as a good choice and here is why. The M1 Garand is a fine battle rifle but a basic out of the box so to speak is a 4 MOA rifle. The rear sight clicks are 4 MOA for starters. A very good Garand can be made into a 1 MOA rifle but it comes with a cost. Let's take a look at a Special Grade $995 M1 Garand from CMP:

M1 Garand, CMP Special (.308)
Allow 30-60 days for delivery.
M1 Garand Springfield Armory receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber.

The above rifle is chambered in .308 and rebarreled with new Criterion barrel. They are good barrels about a match quality depending on how you define match quality. Typically they run about $250 so a good deal from the CMP. However, you still have standard sights and a good set of NM2A sights will run you about another $300 or more for front and rear. The CMP rifle has what I believe are new Boyds walnut lumber which is good stuff. However, the accuracy of a great M1 Garand also hinges on all the wood to metal fitting. This is why M1 Garands set up for NM shooting are generally bedded which involves quite a bit of work and some tools. All in all the Special Grade M1 Garands from CMP are great rifles but I doubt for your defined needs will get you where you want to go. Not without investing considerably more time and money in the rifle anyway. Just my opinion and I have built a few M1 Garand match rifles. I just see it as a more complex process to get what you want from an M1 Garand for the reasons I mentioned and a few more I have not mentioned.

The M1A is also mentioned. I really like mine but starting with $1,500 leaves you a good way to go. An M1A NM rifle will run you about $1,900 and a really blown out SA M1A Super Match gets up around $2,300 plus. Starting with a good base M1A will run you about your $1,500 leaving room for expensive expansion much like the problems you would face with a M1 Garand mentioned above.

I like the AR 10. The nicest thing being that if you start with even a lower end basic rifle unlike the M1 Garand or M1A the tools needed to upgrade the rifle are nothing in comparison to the M1 or M1A rifles. Most upgrades are plug and play. I would rather re-barrel an AR 10 than either the M1 or M1A. Thses rifles are easy to work on and modify. They are also easy to get the sub MOA groups with and for that matter even scope.

Here is my AR 10 with a 24 inch match barrel. The sights are Centra front and rear.



How hard is it to go to basic sights or a scope? Not very hard at all:



With the exception of M1 Garand variations like the C and D versions the M1 Garand was not designed for a scope and most scope mount designs for the rifle suck! When it comes to the M1A even the SA scope mount packages are somewhat marginal. While I love my NM Garand and my NM M1A given a choice if I could only have one rifle it would be my AR and Thank God I don't have to make that choice.

While I do not own some of the other options mentioned I have shot them. I just see the AR 10 as your best bet based on what you want. Start simple and build on the basic rifle. Also, as can be seen with any of my rifles I am not at all into tacticool as to the best of my knowledge all the cool out there does not get those tiny damn bullets to go where I want them to go. I like basic.

Ron

 

[nyc71]

AR platform all the way. 2 MOA is hard for the FAL, PTR and Saiga. They are reliable but not inherently accurate. A quality AR platform in .308 will be 1 MOA at 100 and light years better than anything other auto loader out past 500. Armalite makes nice rifles but I'm more into the DPMS platform. Parts are easier to get and less expensive. The 1k DPMS basic AP4 platform will be wicked accurate right out of the box. There are also some great companies making excellent parts if you into building. Here's my Mega MaTen build that is sub MOA and I have just shy of 2k into it. All top tier parts. Weighs 9 lbs without optics.

Nice setup, where did you buy that EVO handguard?

 

[US Cavalry (Retired)]

Leadcounsel, I agree with 90% of your post. However I own a CETME and maybe I just got a good one. It is dead accurate out to 400 meters, it eats every 308/7.62 ammo I load in the magazine. I have over 1000 rounds through it with out a single FTF or FTE. I did get a chance to fire the HK91/G3 while I was stationed in Germany. I have always liked them. I will eventually get an M1A as that is the rifle I trained with in basic. I never saw an M-16 until I went to Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk. I never did like them.

Take care,
US Army (Retired)
1st Sgt/Master Sgt,
Infantry/Cavalry/Armor
Aug. 8, 1968 - July 1, 1992

 

[TCBPATRIOT]

Speaking of M14s/M1As, I was at my guard unit's armory today cleaning our m4s and actually for the first time in my 6 years of being in the military because we didn't have any in the corps. And it was truly a joy I would have loved to shoot it. I really felt like a man's rifle. Although I have no problems with stoner's design there is just something about a walnut and blued steel rifle that I haven't had the chance to enjoy until today. The only M1A I had seen in person up until today was a synthetic and I wasn't crazy about it.-SCOUTS OUT!

 

[3twelves]

Not sure how anyone could recommend a PTR?

Clunky controls
Awkward ergo's
Crushes brass
Inaccurate
Heavy recoil
Finicky with what ammo you use
Heavy


AR10 is the best 7.62 platform.

Great ergo's and controls
Don't smash or dent brass
Lightest recoil
Optics ready
Most accurate

 

[Ash]

Ergonomics are subjective. I've found the Garand/M14 platform more comfortable to shoot than the AR. I have owned three AR's and never end up keeping them.

The accuracy you will realize between the AR and the M14 might favor the AR, but the average shooter will not likely find a difference. All the mentioned advantages of the AR above are largely subjective. The controls on the M14 are better than the AR in my opinion, as they require virtually no change in grip to disengage and are ergonomically better because they favor left and right-handed shooters. Ditto for the magazine release. Most of the arguments really are angles on a pin.

The best answer, as mentioned, is try out the one that best suits the shooter. Only then will the greatest accuracy and performance potential be realized.

 

[stubbicatt]

Not sure how anyone could recommend a PTR?

Clunky controls
Awkward ergo's
Crushes brass
Inaccurate
Heavy recoil
Finicky with what ammo you use
Heavy

1. Ergos... get an ambi safety/selector and a paddle mag release. Check.

2. Crushes brass? Not true. A port buffer will keep that annoying hickey off the cases. Check.

3. Inaccurate? First hand: Hornady 155 Amax bullets, H4895 powder. 1" at 100 yards, minute of prairie dog at 400+ yards using 4x mil optic. (If a good shooter were behind it I suspect it would do even better) Check.

4. Heavy recoil? Heavy buffer in stock. Check

5. Finicky with ammo? If in #2 you are concerned with crushed cases, you must reload. If you reload, don't need to worry about finicky with ammo.

6. Heavy? Go to the gym.

Seriously, the PTR is a great rifle.

 

[SaxonPig]

flatlander- You like saying the word "platform," don't you?

I have two 308 (or 7.62 if you prefer, the rifles shoot all of it whatever the headstamp reads) rifles. I cannot speak to the quality of any of the clones as I prefer the original manufacturer. My FAL is by FN and my 91 is by H&K.

Either will do what I want such a rifle to do. I slightly prefer the FAL due to its sleek look and feel. As a result I have converted my 91 into a special purpose rifle by adding a collapsing stock and 30 round magazine (I call it my AK on steroids).

I don't need lights or grenade launchers or extra handles sticking out. The rifles work fine for me as issued.

Never had an AR10 but I suspect it would also work fine. Same with the M1A1.

Pick your poison. I chose mine.