Let's talk compact rifles/carbines

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Avenger29

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Okay, I am 19 and SC prohibits me from owning a handgun. Its stupid that I can throw a rifle or shotgun in the car and drive all over the state with it, but not a handgun...

Anyway, I have been looking at options for a carbine/rifle. The #1 choice at this point is the Keltec Sub2000 in 9x19, Glock configuration. I figure this is a great choice because it folds to 16" x 7". I have not seen anything smaller than that. Plus, 9mm is cheap as far as centerfire pistol rounds go. The compactness is pretty important to me. I want to be able to stick it under the back seat or in a backpack or briefcase. Glock mags are a plus, because in a couple of years, I plan on buying a Glock. The $300 price tag is another plus, as I can't lay out more than about $400.

The next smallest choice is the Keltec SU-16. More expensive, but .223 power. Only problem is it is larger, and .223 is more expensive. Plus, I could do without the boom! of the rifle cartridge. I already have enough boom satisfaction with my Mosin, .30-30, and Mavrick 88. If anybody has a pick of the Sub 2000 and the smallest of the 16" Su-16s folded sitting next to each other, I would appreciate if you can post it for a good size comparison.

I'd consider taking my .30-30, but it just is not compact enough for my tastes and it is a heirloom. .30-30 ammunition is also expensive. Other than that, the .30-30 is great. I cannot modify it, however. In the future, I am going to buy a used and abused one and have it either parked or Tenneferied and put on a synthetic stock, ghost ring sights, and a red-dot. But that is a long ways away, when I have some more money.

The 12 gauge, I cannot modify (it ain't mine). It would also be large, even with a folding stock and 18" barrel, and expensive. (a stock and barrel- around $100 each) and the SG is range limited.

So do ya'll think? If you know of anything smaller than the Sub 2000 that is legal for a 19yo to own at under $400, let me know!
 
you can probably find a Marlin Camp Carbine 9mm for $350 if you shop around.
 
you can probably find a Marlin Camp Carbine 9mm for $350 if you shop around.

I don't think that it is smaller than a Keltec, it is probably heavier, and I have seen exactly one in my area. It was also beat up, and had a ramline folding stock on it. I didn't want it. It just looked like it had been too abused, and it was at a pawnshop that had overinflated prices.

Oh, yeah- I don't do internet gun buying, and I don't have a credit card. I like to see it and hold it before purchasing, and my local gunshop has two or three of the Keltecs. I just want to hear some feedback on options, as I do not want to buy the Keltec and then find out there were other options.
 
There's a lot of mixed reviews on the sub2000.. Only benefit I'd see in having that is that if you keep it for 2 years and buy the pistol that your sub2000's mags were made for then you'd have already spent the money you would have in the future anyway.. + you might have ammo stockpiles when you do finally get that pistol...

me on the other hand, my AK folds up and fits in a duffel bag with plenty of room to spare, but my true truck gun is my 870. It's not really about compactness so much as good positioning and how convenient your vehicle is for such a thing.

just somethin to consider. smaller isn't necessarily an advantage if something a little bit bigger would do a much better job.

that being said - the marlin camps are quite nifty. Maybe shoot for a camp45?
 
Well, I am just placing a high priority on compactness. How long is the AK with the stock folded? Although, with a base AK starting at $350, then adding the cost of the folding stock, mags, etc, I think it is just a little out of reach.

And let me get it across right now...Marlin's carbines, while I know are excellent quality, are just not available around here.

For what its worth, I am driving an S10 Blazer. Space is at a premium. The cargo area at the rear leaks during rain, too. I also would like to have the gun within reach while I am in the driver's seat, and I want it out of sight. I would also like to be able to put the carbine in a backpack for those days when I am traveling around with one. About the only way I can see for me to legally have some firepower close at hand when not on my property or in a vehicle.
 
The SUB2000 is very small when folded, much smaller than the SU-16. (16" vs 25" as per www.kel-tec.com). I don't think you'll get a more compact carbine than the SUB2000. It can't be fired when folded though. The SU16C can.

I'll measure my AK when I get home. It's a bit longer that 25" when folded though IIRC.
 
The AK and the SU-16 are just too long, although both are on my gotta have list.

16" vs 25"
That's 9 inches. That is a critical difference. I don't need it to fire when folded, so that's okay.

I think I am going to go with the Sub 2000, but please, keep posting replies.
 
You're going to be hard pressed to find a rifle that beats the KT Sub2000 for compactness, light weight, and low cost. I'm not a big fan of pistol caliber carbines... but then again, I have pistols for pistol calibers! If I couldn't own a pistol, I'd probably have several pistol caliber carbines.

I've shot the Sub2000, it was a pleasant little carbine to shoot, fairly accurate, very little recoil, handy length, and reliable. I understand that some people have reliability problems with them, but it's probably fixable. At the low price point, KT doesn't spend much time on finish work. I have 2 KT pistols, one required a little 'fluff and buff' to make it reliable, the other has been perfect since I bought it. The Sub2000 isn't an unreliable design, but depending on your example, might require a little polishing to get it right.

Based on your requirements, a Sub2000 would be my recommendation. Get one in whatever mag configuration you think you'll use when you can buy a pistol.

For a simple car rifle, there's other rifles I'd prefer... but as I said, I have pistols, so my truck gun serves an entirely different purpose. Pistols are for fighting your way back to your rifle, right? Well, when I get there, I want something with more punch to it than a pistol caliber!
 
Do you know any cops? If so, try and buy one of their 870s from them (or whatever their dept issues)

I got my 870 LNIB for 80$ from a DPS officer. Also got my m1 carbine from another DPS officer for 100$.


once you have the 870, you'll be looking at a shotgun with around 24-26" OAL without a stock. You can buy a pistol grip without a stock for the 870 for pretty cheap from midwayusa. Alternatively, you could go for a mossberg and do the same thing.

If you play your cards right you'd be looking at a 250$ maximum payment after alls said and done.

My AK folds to almost exactly what the 870 is without a stock.

l_890b2a145e82c23a34a4cda98db1aca1.png

the bottom 3 firearms do a very nice job of playing the part of the truck gun. Top one was 50$ (russian m44), my AK is my #1 baby so I have almost a grand dumped into various trinkets for it (EOTech cost me 379$ OTD at carter's country, which is 79$ more than I paid for the AK and 10 loaded magazines at a gunshop in Tyler, Texas)

and the 870 was 80$ LNIB from a cop.


As a side note - My friend did an impulse buy on a sub2000 a couple of days ago. We took it to the range the day he bought it, and after about 50rds of 9mm ball ammo the thing tore itself apart at the stock. Dunno what the deal was there, but it really turned me off to Kel-tec products in general. It was purchased from a pretty reputable gunshop in South Houston NIB, so it's not like a second hand firearm falling apart and feeling pretty comfortable blaming the person you bought it from for taking crappy care of it.

l_d1d6f140d86ab102f3ceb6614e045ed1.png
l_72fb3ab75f987e1f6bcec0183fdf6b96.png


ETA - yes, that is a tow strap that I'm using as my singlepoint sling.. lol...
 
No, I don't no any cops. I didn't know they could sell duty weapons like that. Do they have to pay for their own shotguns, or what?

That's a smokin deal for an 870P:what:

The AK's are nice, and I will look at them, but I am absolutely going to check out the Sub 2000, maybe put them together side by side, I don't know, and think about it. The AK I have in mind is one built on a beefed up reciever- almost like an RPK reciever.
 
I would go with a SKS or a lever action 357/38. You know the 30/30 and plan on keeping it, so this would do you nicely as a "trainer". Plus 38 reloads are cheap.

Jerry
 
One thing to keep in mind is that 9mm is primarily a pistol cartridge, and glock magazines primarily feed glock pistols, you may have trouble buying both.

Based on my experiance, stay away from chain stores, stick to local, smaller gunshops. Especially if you look like a kid (no offense intended)
 
I know about the 9mm/Handgun ammo issue. I will probably buy ammo from the guy I will buy the Keltec from.

the ammo will cost you a small fortune.

Exactly why I will not be getting one. Already have a gun that is expensive to feed. The rest are relativley cheap. Hence the 9mm selection.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but can you buy pistol ammo at 19?

Another thing, at 19 I'd steer clear of AK-style weapons. Cop pulls a 'kid' over, sees the AK sitting in the back seat. :eek:

Call me paranoid, I just don't want to see someone your age get in trouble over nothing.

How about a 38/357 levergun? Those are mighty sweet...
 
My AK is about 26" folded (without the flash suppressor).

The FAL is about 28"

ImblFAL4.jpg
 
Get the 9mm Kel-Tec and the Glock later, like you plan.

It's a good plan.

You should decide on Glock 17/19 now so you stock up on the correct length mags. A few evil 33rd mags would be fun too.
 
Another thing, at 19 I'd steer clear of AK-style weapons. Cop pulls a 'kid' over, sees the AK sitting in the back seat

I could also go with a Saiga, which does not look as evil. I might even get a Saiga 12 SG. I don't know.

Forgive my ignorance, but can you buy pistol ammo at 19?

The gunshops tend to not worry about it, particuarly if they know you and you got the rifle from them. I can always have my parents pick up the ammo, too. I can just tell Mom to "get me a box of 9mm, the Winchester WWB bulk pack). Its mainly the chain stores that hassle a person.

A few evil 33rd mags would be fun too.

I was planning to use those as my primary mag. Way, way cool.
 
Hmm.. what's more "scary"? A 12gauge with a detachable magazine that looks like an AK, or an actual AK?

I think a saiga in 12gauge would combine a lot of different strategies for making the business end inspire spontaneus bowel movements from people looking directly at it.

If you want the least hassle from cops, the sub2000 looks like a toy so I think you'll be alright there.. I've been pulled over and searched a few times, and the AK always was an item of interest, but they never really paid attention to my beat up rusty 870 or anything else I have really.
 
One more thing. I would like to know about securing a long gun in the car. I am thinking something like one of Beretta's security soft cases with some nice, thick steel cable and a good lock. Are there any other options that are not that bulky or expensive? Lets consider this for a normal size rifle, say a standard Marlin 336 or a shotgun.
 
I ended up going with an 870. My dealer did not have the Keltec I wanted (a 9mm taking Glock mags). I also figured that for over $300, I might as well go with a proven weapon. Thanks for all the advice, guys.
 
Wow, that's the least likely of choices I'd expect you to go with, but I can say quite confidently that there's no way in hell you could be dissapointed with your decision =)

Post pics. Best thing about the 870 is there's almost nothing for it to snag when you're trying to move it around. I keep mine covered with a sheet and a 18"x12"x1" piece of foam.


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=556440

image


Looks like a pretty sturdy furniture set for a seriously affordable price, black would make the gun darker (obviously) which in turn makes it easier to conceal on a floorboard or wherever you want to stick it.
 
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