lets talk double stack .45's

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AcceptableUserName said:
Seems like the high-capacity .45 is a newer concept and an acquired taste because of grip size.
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That is a total wives tale. I have 4 1911's in .45 acp. The circumference at the magwell is as follows, Colt officers acp, 5 3/8" Citadel, 5 3/8" Metro arms American Classic II, 6.0" and Springfield Armory PW9701LP double stack 14+1, 5 3/4".

The hi capacity is right between the other mil spec 1911's, no larger, and no smaller.
The measurement I made was at the base of the grip, so mains spring housing can alter the size. This case the Springer, AC2, and Colt had flat MSH, while the Citadel has an arched polymer MSH.
I have attempted to buy a new trigger for the hi cap and they are just neglected by the aftermarket vendors. I am trying an STI SV 2011 trigger with a long curve, it's in the mail. I have big mits, and my son also, who I consulted before ordering the new trigger.
I modded the Springer with beavertail Grip safety, skeletonized commander hammer, extended slidestop, trigger job, including wilson combat sear brought the trigger pull down to 3Lb12Oz, and smoooth.
I havent found too many aftermarket grips, again due to prejudgment by the 1911 community. I dont understand it, because the shooting world loves the XD and glocks, in hi cap. Oh and did I mention that since I lightened the trigger pull, it came with 7 LBs and gritty, the springer is the most accurate of all 4 of my 1911's.
It sports P-14 mec-gar mags and I feel they are suitable for carry duty. The mags are very heads up and feed hydra shoks as well as round ball ammo 100% so far.
GS%20park.jpg

Just my .02


thank you.
 
I'm a fan of wide body 1911/2011 pistols. I have a Springfield GI in .45 that John Harrison really sweetened up for me...

SAHiCap_rt.jpg

SAHiCap_lft.jpg

and an STI Edge, albeit in .40 cal...

Edge_1284.jpg

Recoil is very soft in both of these guns due to weight and the large contact area with the hand. They are luxuriously comfortable to shoot.
 
I've had a Para P14 for 21 years now as my standard carry. No misfires or issues ever.

I love the feel of the wide body as the 1911 frame always seemed to skinny for me.
 
Somewhere in my owners manual (pamphlet) for my RIA Tactical it references a 1911A1 as single stack and A2 as double stack. Is this a standard?
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No. It's gibberish they either made up or copied from someone else. The doublestack 1911s don't really have anything to do with any "standards".
 
that is a black beauty, I see from the frame it is pre Imbel. Its odd that my serial is also a WW since my pistol is an Imbel frame. Although my serial has one more digit. I love the sights, are they Novak cut dovetails? That is one of the things I will be leaving GI on my pistol. I just want the option of returning it to stock if I do so choose.
I think there are enough makes and models of 1911 pistols out there, there is room for all.
Why do the mere mention of a doublestack 1911 bring out all the emotions in some of our fellow enthusiasts?
Enjoy, live and let live.
When S&W went from the model 39-2 and added the model 59, I don't recall any reaction other than admiration at the added option. Yet these few, and I mean sparse, makers of the widebody seem to get the reaction Dr. Frankenstein must have felt.
I think my next mod, which arrives tomorrow, will be an asset to the look I am seeking. I am installing a STI-SV 2011 black, long curve trigger on the GI.
Not that the GI solid shoe trigger doesn't do it's job, but the lightened trigger will match the grip safety and hammer in the upgrade and looks good too.
 
That is a total wives tale. I have 4 1911's in .45 acp. The circumference at the magwell is as follows, Colt officers acp, 5 3/8" Citadel, 5 3/8" Metro arms American Classic II, 6.0" and Springfield Armory PW9701LP double stack 14+1, 5 3/4".

The hi capacity is right between the other mil spec 1911's, no larger, and no smaller.
Click to expand...
But what are the lengths of the grips?

Let's be honest here, there's only several ways to increase capacity in a .45ACP 1911....

Make the magazine and grip fatter.
Make the magazine and grip longer.
Make the magazine itself thinner.
Make the grip portion of the frame itself thinner.
Or a combination of one or more of the first four methods.

It seems that most makers don't want to make the frame itself thinner (maybe due to safety concerns).
And most makers don't want to make the magazine thinner (they are already very thin).
So most makers choose to make the magazine and the grip fatter, or the magazine and the grip longer.

Does your double-stack 1911 magazine fit in your single-stack 1911?
Or is it too fat to fit?


Easy
 
But what are the lengths of the grips?
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it uses standard grip safety, standard main spring housing, so the length of the grip is 4" approx.
It is a combination of things that give it the space needed to fit the staggered mag in the frame. There are no bushings, and the grips are very thin.
Although the circumference might be the same, the front strap is wide. It does feel larger in the hand, no doubt.
I don't claim to like the doublestack for a special purpose. At the range, I only load 5 rounds in my mags, with the singlestack or the doublestack. I just wanted one because it was a good looking weapon, and the price was right.
Now, I have started shooting it and it has a different feel than my other 1911's. It is heavy, but if you are going to carry it, and are knocking it for the weight, you have to take all the weight of the pistol, and mags into consideration, on the belt.
If you carry 2 mags, and one pistol of standard 1911, with mag and one in the tube, what does that weigh at total of 25 rds.

If you carry a doublestack with mag and one in the tube, plus one mag in pouch equals 29 rds. what does that weigh?

On the belt, that is the weight you need to look at, because you are going to feel it.
I don't want to dredge up all the emotions I spoke of, which I will guaraantee is going to happen. You have to ask yourself honestly, are you a potential candidate for a firefight. Are you going to need to defend yourself and family at an outing to the city, when you break down in a bad area. Do you want to start counting rounds, and maybe not take an extra shot, just to give your kid an extra second to get in the car, because you are going to have to do a reload.
I think the benefit of a hi cap, whether it's a glock sig or XD is during the run and gun. Stopping to reload gives your opposition an opportunity, and not having to stop and reload, gives you the opportunity.

I like my Sig P226, I sold a model 39-2 to get it. When I heard mec-gar made a 18 round flush fit mag, I bought one. It is still in the package. The stock sig mags (which are mec-gar) hold 15 rounds. But why not have 18?
Its the same thing.
sig%20holster.jpg
Only the 1911 brings out this debate,Lets move on.



Thank you, and have a nice day.
 
Off Topic...

Hey Cody, Do you ever worry about that holster not covering the trigger so well with the Sig cocked like that?
 
I would never carry the Sig like that, I took that picture for a holster
thread. its double action, I would'nt carry it cocked.
that holster is from W.Germany. it is weird, made by sig, for sigs, but it doesn't make sense. The snap is in the wrong direction, and under the flap in the pic,the other side of the snap isn't connected to the holster, just a one inch section of leather. I am going to redo the snap, and cut off the piece under the flap. sh.jpg
I think a screw in the center of the snap will secure it, then I won't have to cut the leather. They were giving these holsters away on sportsmansguide for $10.00 with a $10 buck coupon so it was free. Still weird.
I use a pancake cross draw for everything from my 1911, sig, even my Ruger mark II works in there. Love the pancakes.
pancake.jpg
 
I've got a Springer double stack. It's been a flawless performer since the day I got it no matter what load/bullet style I've fed it. It easily holds 4" at 25M. Paid $600 for it. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Now the cons. You had better love the pistol pretty much the way it comes. Parts for single column will fit if you're looking for MSHs, beavertails, or safeties. (Any slide parts for single stacks will obviously work.) Grips, triggers, mag releases...you're out of luck. Parts for the Para don't fit the Springer. I had to make my own grips to replace the awful plastic crap that came on the gun. I have a set of Trijicon sights on it, as the ones from the factory are pretty much there just to say it comes with sights.

My biggest gripe about the weapon is the finish. I think they used latex paint on the thing, as the finish started peeling off as soon as I got it. I had the slide reblued (or actually probably blued for the first time) when I had the sights installed. I'm going to be putting a beavertail on it, and will have the frame refinished when I'm done with that.

All that said, by the time I get the pistol the way I want it, I'll have around $1,200.00 in it. Not bad considering it will be exactly how I want it for the same price as most loaded single stacks. But having 15 in the gun and 14 in one spare mag makes me rest real easy when I'm walking around with it.
 
I paid 600 for mine too. I did a lot of mods, my pic is down below. I just put a beavertail and a hammer on it, and I'm crossing my fingers on a trigger i ordered, that's coming tomorrow.
I've spent a lot of hours searching for pictures of SA doubles that have put triggers in and i think the STI will work. The low sights were useless as is, but I put the same sight enhancements as the Sig I have, and it really made a difference. As I said in an earlier post, I worked the sear and hammer, with a cylinder and slide light sear spring, and the pull is great now. It made the pistol much more controllable. The 7 LB stock pull was making me pull to the left one inch at 30 ft, now Im dead on 1" groups at 35 ft., resting on the bench of course.
Truth be known, I think I would redo my purchase, and get a black stainless loaded model. They are $780. + 20 shipping all the time at Northern Firearms.
But, I haven't really spent that much, and it is great to have 15 in the gun. I prefer the full size to a XD, and wanted to get into the Springfield Armory line. I had looked at Mil-spec in OD green, but I didn't like it as much as the black. I haven't had any paint issues yet, but I don't carry the springer yet.

Dream gun= TRP in black armory kote.
 
It has never been clear to me why increased magazine capacity in a defensive pistol is particularly choice. The bigger the magazine the bigger the gun, and the bigger the gun the harder it is to get hold of for people with small hands. And what, pray, does one need all those rounds for? How many lethal antagonists do you think you are going to be able to handle? Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce's answer was, "Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot." The highest score I know of at this time achieved by one man against a group of armed adversaries was recorded in (of all places) the Ivory Coast! There, some years ago, a graduate student of mine laid out five goblins, with four dead and one totaled for the hospital. Of course there is the episode of Alvin York and his eight, but there is some dispute about that tale. (If you read it over very carefully you will see what I mean.) Be that as it may, I see no real need for a double column magazine. It is all the rage, of course, and like dual air bags, it is a popular current sales gimmick.
Click to expand...

-Jeff Cooper
 
To answer your questions... started originally as a basic GI wide body .45acp with sights which were close to useless, especially under dimmer lighting conditions.

SAHiCap_lft.jpg

Basically, this was done:
Novak night sights
Ed Brown arched MSH
High hold Beavertail grip safety
Custom shaped combat style low profile, single-sided thumb safety
All premium machined tool steel fire control components, slide stop, etc.
KART barrel
Slide flats ground and polished
DLC IonBond Black finish (extremely durable)

The gun gobbled .45 when stock and still does. But with these great sights, especially, it's much nicer to shoot. I use MecGar nickel plated 13-round mags with extra power Wolff mag springs. These are such nice, soft shooters. The weight and hand-filling grip make the .45acp felt recoil seem like a 9mm. Standard 1911s grip frames do seem a bit on the "thin" side to me now. ;) I prefer a lighter, smaller gun for EDC, but this is a great defense gun otherwise. Having 14 rounds of .45acp on tap is comforting.
 
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magnanimous,
I think am going to dump that safety lock, it's real hard to take off safe, and rough on the thumb. I put a stainless barstock thumb safety (black) checkerd on my other 1911, I think I'll order another one for the springer. I have the matching slidestop on there now, it looks and works good. Black stainless.
Im not planning on touching the sights, theres not many options, without cutting the dovetails. Even putting mil-spec sights I have to stake in the front. I just replaced the rear sights on my Colt last week, when I bought the beavertail at midway Ihad a coupon so i decided to buy the white dot colt sights for 12.00 and use the 10.00 coupon. no brainer.
Those colt sights from the factory crushed like aluminum. I dont know why, they got smacked against a wall a few years ago, and just mashed in on the corner. When I rolled the metal up with my finger, it just crumbled off. ???***

The new sights are steel and went right in, perfect. left to right, nice and tight.
 
Cody, where did you order the trigger from? I can't find anything, and have been told by Brownell's that the Para triggers don't work. This would be a great find!
 
Rock Island Hi Cap 45

I picked this up for 489 out the door functions flawlessly the mags are a little tough to push all 14rds in at first but they have already loosened. up Just an fyi para mags need minor tweeking to work in the RIA but RIA sell the mags for 21.95 on their sight so why waste the money on the para mags that run 30$+ . Pics of the original and then pics of the grips I refinished. I also have a set of Pearce grips for the para that I modified to fit pic to follow DSCN1206.jpg DSCN1208.jpg
 
G30sf
I keep this gun in the center console of my truck at all times with 4 additional magazines.
Click to expand...

The G30 is a great weapon.... absolutely tops. I love mine. Favorite Glock. Raylin Givens on Justified seems to like his quite a bit as well! ;)

11 rounds of soft-shooting, totally-reliable, wonderfully-accurate .45acp goodness in a fairly compact package.
 
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