Leveling optic cross hairs

[JeeperCreeper]

I used the search function but got impatient.

I picked up a new CZ600 in 6.5 Creedmoor and mounted a Primary Arms 4-14 on it. Shoots really well so far with my 2 quick range trips.

However, I'm starting to get very picky with scope mounting. I'm new at anything "precision" or "premium" as you can tell by the budget CZ and budget scope.

However, is there any quick and easy methods of making sure that my crosshairs are level? Or how to level a gun that has funny contours?

Home remedies or cheap bore sighter or anything?

I used to put my rifles in a vice and have level reference lines on the wall, but that only works well for squared off firearms like ARs with flat surfaces.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Found my answer on the garand leveling thread.

Remove my rings or mount, level those to a rail or surface, then use my reference lines.

Remount.

Thanks all

 

[CapnMac]

Probably as simple as some magnetic bulb levels:

That set is US$10.30 on eBay (w/ free shipping)

Probably would want a 3 or 4 foot level to put on the other side of the room. Then, you would be able to level the receiver, and have a level visual reference to spin the crosshairs to.

You will want a number of bits of shim material, to wedge everything level. A couple of bags of shot, or some bags with sand (gallon ziplock with rice in a pinch) to hold things in place not bad to have. A room large enough to eyeball things, too.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I use a plumbbob hanging from the garage door across from my loading room, I like the Wheeler scope mounting kits for the scope and rings. I have been looking into "bedding" my new 20moa rail and see if I like that over the Wheeler kit.
Also something to try is move your turrets from extreme to extreme and make sure it is still level and plumb.

 

[Wolfshead]

I use a plumbbob too.
I get my rifle level in the vise, level the scope and then level the cross hairs on the plumbbob line.

 

[Chuck R.]

Another vote for plumb bob.

I use the Wheeler scope leveling system to ensure the rifle is level, then use a plumb bob at the end of my gun room to level the reticle.

Best part about the Wheeler system is the level that clamps to the barrel. Once set, it's easy to verify the rifle is still level when messing with the scope and mounts.

 

[powermad]

I use an Ariska scope leveler then verify with a plumb line.
I set them up on the bench and don't even look through the scope.

Level the rifle.
Plumb line on the wall a few feet from the butt.
Flash light through the objective, adjust the focus ring until the projected reticle is crisp.
Rotate scope if needed and torque caps to spec.

 

[JFrank]

One level goes on the top of the reciever, then draw a level line on a target and rotate the scope crosshairs to match the target, do not rely of the top of the turret for leveling.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I put the gun in one of these snugly. Level the gun. Put the rings on. Level again. Put the scope in the rings. Check level with the level across the turret cap. Put the top 1/2 of the rings on. Go slow tighten them. Check level as im going. It's not perfect but it works for my needs.

 

[12Bravo20]

One level goes on the top of the reciever, then draw a level line on a target and rotate the scope crosshairs to match the target, do not rely of the top of the turret for leveling.

Putting a level onto the scope turret will get you close. But as mentioned, it is best to use a plumb bib or a level mark on a wall to finish leveling the scope. I use a piece of poster board with level marks on it taped to a wall. A plumb bob is kind of hard to use with several cats in the house. If you use a large or poster board like I do, just make sure it is perfectly level when taping it to a flat surface.

 

[JFrank]

For sure, Turret caps rarely match the cross hairs even with expensive scopes as posted. I started doing mine at the range.

 

[Chuck R.]

For sure, Turret caps rarely match the cross hairs even with expensive scopes as posted. I started doing mine at the range.

That's also my experience, in theory the caps should be square, but rarely are.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I use the grid in my living room window. Magnetic levels on the rifle, strap it down in lead sled, line cross hairs up with window grid. I built the house, so I know the windows are level.

 

[doubleh]

I use the north side of my garage door. My dad and I built the garage so I know it's plumb.

 

[Varminterror]

Leveling the reticle matters, leveling the rifle is nice, but it’s not critical. I use a leveling jig and a plumb bob or true vertical line, and install the scope level and rings, then transition to the rifle.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Leveling the reticle matters, leveling the rifle is nice, but it’s not critical. I use a leveling jig and a plumb bob or true vertical line, and install the scope level and rings, then transition to the rifle.

View attachment 1119011

Ok you lost me here.
If the rifle is not level/plumb there's nothing to reference the scope to.
In that case I can just throw the scope on and tilt the rifle whatever way to get the scope level right?

 

[12Bravo20]

Ok you lost me here.
If the rifle is not level/plumb there's nothing to reference the scope to.
In that case I can just throw the scope on and tilt the rifle whatever way to get the scope level right?

He uses a jig the make sure the scope is level to the mount/rings. As long as everything is level in the jig, then it will still be level when you install the mount/rings to the rifle.

 

[Varminterror]

Ok you lost me here.
If the rifle is not level/plumb there's nothing to reference the scope to.
In that case I can just throw the scope on and tilt the rifle whatever way to get the scope level right?

Effectively, yes.

The geometry is pretty simple. A level reticle when shooting matters far, far more than having the reticle aligned to the bore. It’s sure nice to have the reticle aligned with the bore, and when everything is built correctly, a level reticle WILL align to the bore, but having the reticle level when shooting matters far, far more than having the rifle “level.”

So I use a jig to hold the reticle level while I install a spirit level onto the scope, and since the rail on my jig is level also, I know the reticle is aligned to the rings - the rifle and rail might not be perfect, but it will be close enough - just as close as it would be if I futzed with trying to level the rifle then level the scope on top of it - but I have the luxury of faster set up and easier leveling on the jig.

And again, at the end of the day, the only thing which really matters is having the spirit level on the scope aligned to the reticle.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Ok, you must have scopes that have a level adjustment for the reticle?
All my reticles are fixed to the scope tube. I don't really care if the turret caps are level, though I do check them to just to see, I want my reticle square with my rifle. The only way I know to do that is put a level on the receiver or other square surface of the rifle and then turn the tube in the rings to level the cross hairs and match the rifle.
I can see where your rig would level the reticle in the rings, but I don't see how this works if your base or reviever isn't true.

 

[Varminterror]

Ok, you must have scopes that have a level adjustment for the reticle?
All my reticles are fixed to the scope tube. I don't really care if the turret caps are level, though I do check them to just to see, I want my reticle square with my rifle. The only way I know to do that is put a level on the receiver or other square surface of the rifle and then turn the tube in the rings to level the cross hairs and match the rifle.
I can see where your rig would level the reticle in the rings, but I don't see how this works if your base or reviever isn't true.

Do the math. Intersection of the reticle to the rifle hardly matters at all, compared to the importance of the reticle being true to the world.

So using a plumb bob to allow a spirit level be attached to the scope tube - which is attached to the reticle, as you put it - to reference level when the reticle is level to the world matters.

In other words - even if the reticle is aligned with the bore, if the reticle isn’t level when firing, the POI shift is far greater than if the reticle is level, but inconsequentially NOT aligned with the bore.

Again, the math is ridiculously simple. Bore alignment has been touted as critical for far too long. Why should a level rifle actually matter? Everything important is a round tube, with no reference for up, down, or sideways… but rather reticle level matters critically.

 

[Hugger-4641]

If I understand you correctly, then I have to disagree. Since the scope is in a vertical axis above the bore, this relationship does matter. The horizontal cross hair should be perpendicular to this vertical line. Now, if I don't hold the rifle level when I shoot it, that's on me.

 

[JFrank]

There may be more emphasis on having a level platform in Benchrest shooting, with the center of my optics 2 in above the center of the bore I prefer to align the best I can then level my rest, I feel the rifle tracks straight back and returns to battery close to the X much better.
Maybe nothing to it but it works for me.

 

[Varminterror]

If I understand you correctly, then I have to disagree. Since the scope is in a vertical axis above the bore, this relationship does matter. The horizontal cross hair should be perpendicular to this vertical line. Now, if I don't hold the rifle level when I shoot it, that's on me.

It’s fine if you want to be incorrect, but as an engineer, you can do the math. It’s simple trig.

The magnitude of lateral error from mounts and bases not passing the reticle through the center of the bore is absolutely insignificant compared to the error potential when a reticle isn’t held level when firing.

 

[Varminterror]

At the end of the day, the method I use has absolutely as much likelihood of aligning the reticle to the bore as any method which uses a level on the rifle (like the Wheeler level, level, level method), but more importantly, it actually references the reticle to a plumb bob or true vertical line to ensure the level mounted on the reticle is showing level when the reticle is leveled.

 

[nettlle]

I use my eyes to level optic cross hairs. They are far more remarkable tool that a bubble level.