Lever action no safety question

[dodo bird]

Got a buddy who puts a simple foam ear plug when he goes hunting on his marlin without a safety. He says It stays in there until you pull it out. He worried about hammer getting back walking through brush etc... Thought I would share.

 

[ImperatorGray]

No half-cock on that model??

 

[longknife12]

Should be a half cock....................................
Dan

 

[dodo bird]

He was saying at half cock the hammer can still get caught and pulled back by his backpack or walking through brush. I think it's an added safety precaution, needed or not.

 

[Tirod]

The Win 94 had a lever activated safety, you had to squeeze it in to get a shot off. Does the Marlin?

As for negotiating brush so heavy it would snag a firearms parts, that's up to the user to assess as a risk. CCW discussions involve holsters swiping off safeties - or not - same for rifles in the field. If the firearm can't be safe in the users hands traversing rough terrain, it's time to reconsider one that can be.

It's also on the user - with that ear plug in place, will the firearm go off if the hammer is pulled back and the trigger released? Has it actually been tested at the range? It would then go to how the trigger got released while being carried in heavy brush - and it needs more protection.

If things are that rugged, then carrying on an empty chamber and cycling the action as needed would be one answer. It would seem safer than trusting a soft polymer bit of foam that could be lost at the wrong time.

There's another issue, too - how does one negotiate brush so heavy it is in contact with the shooter, and do so quietly? The noise can and does alarm game. To then consider that there would be a need for an instant shot from a loaded firearm sounds as if the behavior and tactics aren't matching the purpose needed, to silently stalk game to keep them unaware.

Much of all that could be said of any rifle or pistol used and tactics in the field.

So, if the point is to block the hammer from falling because it's seen to be too unsafe because of the conditions, then maybe it's too unsafe for that firearm in those conditions. Don't do it.

 

[Slamfire]

He was saying at half cock the hammer can still get caught and pulled back by his backpack or walking through brush. I think it's an added safety precaution, needed or not.

I don’t like his mode of carry as that foam plug will be pushing the firing pin forward so it will be resting on the primer. If brush pushes the hammer back, the plug will fall out, and then the hammer will be resting fully on the primer. Then all it takes for an accidental discharge is a hard blow on the hammer.

I prefer the later push button safety of Marlin as it is a safer mechanism than the earlier models that relied only on the half cock. I have heard a number of half cock safety accidents, and of course, can’t remember a single one, but the half cock is not a perfect system. The push button safety is more positive and it allows me to dry fire without breaking the firing pin. Something that has happened to me.

This is my opinion, and has no value. If he wants to carry the thing with a round in the chamber, put the mechanism on half cock. If that still gives the guy an unsafe feeling, carry the thing with the hammer down on a empty chamber. That is probably the safest way to carry one of these 19th century lever actions.

 

[rcmodel]

Neither the Winchester, or the Marlin will fire, even if brush did pull the hammer back.

The hammer will just return to the safety notch when the brush lets go.
It it cocks the hammer fully, it still will not fire until you pull the trigger.

If the trigger isn't pulled and held back, the hammer will just drop to the safety notch again.

I an see more chance of an ND cocking and uncocking a loaded gun while fiddling with putting the ear-plug in the receiver.

rc

 

[jmr40]

You're buddy is over thinking this. The real danger is during the unloading phase. That is the primary purpose of the hammer blocks on newer guns

 

[jeepnik]

Hmm, levergun hung on backpack. Why is a round even chambered? Don't tell me the noise of working the lever would spook game, cuz all that moving around to get to the darned thing is going to do that.

Unless you've got the rifle in your hands, and intend to shoot shortly, it's not necessary to have a round in the chamber. Heck, if I'd done that as a kid my dad would have kicked by backside all the way back to the station wagon.

 

[DPris]

Agree, over-thinking & unnecessary.
Denis

 

[MyRoad]

Good to know this, I inherited an unfired early 80's no-safety Marlin in .35 Rem. from my dad, and I was practicing fully lowering the hammer at the range, thinking (when hunting) I'd chamber a round and then lower the hammer gently for walking. I had no problems doing that (i.e. ND's), but it did make me nervous.

I never encountered anything that I would describe as "half cocked" while working the hammer, so I have no idea what that refers to, or how to get the hammer in that position.

 

[rcmodel]

Let the hammer down all the way.

Now, take your finger off the trigger.
Then pull the hammer back until it 'Clicks' the first time.

The trigger will snap foreword.
And you will find you can't pull it hard enough again to lower the hammer against the firing pin until you pull the hammer back, hold the trigger back, and lower it fully again.


If you just loaded it?
Hold the hammer back, release the trigger, then lower it until it stops in the Safety notch.


These guns haven't been in production for over 100 years by going off 'Half-Cocked'!
If they were capable of it?

They would have stopped making them in 1900!

rc

 

[MyRoad]

Let the hammer down all the way.

Now, take your finger off the trigger.
Then pull the hammer back until it 'Clicks' the first time.

The trigger will snap foreword.
And you will find you can't pull it hard enough again to lower the hammer against the firing pin until you pull the hammer back, hold the trigger back, and lower it fully again.


If you just loaded it?
Hold the hammer back, release the trigger, then lower it until it stops in the Safety notch.


These guns haven't been in production for over 100 years by going off 'Half-Cocked'!
If they were capable of it?

They would have stopped making them in 1900!

rc

Thanks for that RC, just went to the safe and tried it, hadn't noticed it before because I wasn't looking for it.

 

[AKElroy]

Good to know this, I inherited an unfired early 80's no-safety Marlin in .35 Rem. from my dad, and I was practicing fully lowering the hammer at the range, thinking (when hunting) I'd chamber a round and then lower the hammer gently for walking.

This is a dangerous practice; much better to follow the procedure RC outlines. With the hammer resting on a live round rather than the half-cock, there actually is some danger of an ND if the hammer were to be sharply struck.

 

[MyRoad]

This is a dangerous practice; much better to follow the procedure RC outlines. With the hammer resting on a live round rather than the half-cock, there actually is some danger of an ND if the hammer were to be sharply struck.

Got it now, will do. Thanks again --

 

[herrwalther]

My Marlin has a cross-bolt safety and I still never use it. Half cock on the hammer is safe enough for woods walks and was around for many years before the cross bolt was added to the design.

 

[jad0110]

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/g...sing-half-cock-notch-marlin-lever-action.html

Here a video showing the proper procedure for using the half cock notch on Marlins. There is another video showing how NOT to do it, which can set the gun on a false half cock notch.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

how long he been around firearms....makes no sense....why not just decock and pull hammer back when ready to fire....makes sense for someone that does know firearms

 

[jeepnik]

One thing regarding "no safety" leverguns. Until the lawyers (has any other profession created so many problems all in the name of profit?) got involved traditional leverguns didn't have any safety except the half cock notch.

In other words the safety lay where it always has and always should, between the ears of the person handling the firearm.

 

[moxie]

I hate to point this out, but the half-cock procedures are covered fully in the 336 owner's manual which is available on line or in print from Marlin. And the video in #17 above shows you how.
But if you are in heavy brush or rough terrain, I can only echo the advice that an empty chamber is the way to go.

 

[CaliCoastie]

Been in stone tough county lately. I carry chambered and half cock, haven't had a problem. Hiking mountains in Southeast Alaska. 4hrs for a little over a mile. To each their own, I can't really see that helping.

 

[Elkins45]

The Win 94 had a lever activated safety, you had to squeeze it in to get a shot off. Does the Marlin?

As for negotiating brush so heavy it would snag a firearms parts, that's up to the user to assess as a risk. CCW discussions involve holsters swiping off safeties - or not - same for rifles in the field. If the firearm can't be safe in the users hands traversing rough terrain, it's time to reconsider one that can be.

It's also on the user - with that ear plug in place, will the firearm go off if the hammer is pulled back and the trigger released? Has it actually been tested at the range? It would then go to how the trigger got released while being carried in heavy brush - and it needs more protection.

If things are that rugged, then carrying on an empty chamber and cycling the action as needed would be one answer. It would seem safer than trusting a soft polymer bit of foam that could be lost at the wrong time.

There's another issue, too - how does one negotiate brush so heavy it is in contact with the shooter, and do so quietly? The noise can and does alarm game. To then consider that there would be a need for an instant shot from a loaded firearm sounds as if the behavior and tactics aren't matching the purpose needed, to silently stalk game to keep them unaware.

Much of all that could be said of any rifle or pistol used and tactics in the field.

So, if the point is to block the hammer from falling because it's seen to be too unsafe because of the conditions, then maybe it's too unsafe for that firearm in those conditions. Don't do it.

There are a lot of good points in this post.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO that ear plug is more dangerous in the gun than a gun without it. It gives the shooter a false sense of safety and can cause an accident. The gun is safe as designed and adding a trick to make it safer rarely does and can be worse.

This may sound harsh but if your friend is so scared of a gun he probably shouldn't be carrying or shooting it. He is acting all safety minded while carrying a loaded levergun on his backpack only protected by a none approved ear plug safety. It's not the gun that's unsafe, it's the "hunter?" carrying the gun... I would not want to be in the same woods with him.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Two things would have to happen to have an accidental discharge while carrying a Marlin on half-cock through the brush: one branch would have to pull the hammer back while another branch would have to pull the trigger without releasing it. I know the trees in Sam Raimi's "Evil Dead" movie were that malicious, but I don't see it happening in real life.

I have owned leveractions with the half-cock safety only most of my life and sometimes get annoyed at the cross bolt on my 336W or the flip lever on my Rossi 92 clone while carrying in the field. But when unloading the guns by working rounds through the action at home, it makes sense.

On the Marlin, you can pop the lever partly open and that will drop a sear block safety down similar to the Winchester 94 if you are worried too much, but a Marlin in good repair is safe to carry on half cock. The chances of the hammer getting pulled back and the trigger pulled are unlikely.

The finger should only be on the trigger when the sights are on an intended target. I suspect AD with leveractions is usually the result of carrying with the finger inside the triggerguard on the trigger.

 

[AKElroy]

I have four 30/30 lever guns; two early top eject model 94's, a pre-safety 336, and a more recent 94 AE with the cross bolt safety. By far the most dangerous of the four is the AE / cross bolt gun. It has a rebounding hammer (no half-cock), and a safety that is always in the wrong position. After losing game by having the hammer fall on the dreaded safety-bolt, users, like me, simply leave it off. Or worse, they get accustomed to "dry-firing" against the safety bolt by pulling the trigger on a live round, treating it like a de-cocker. This is a HORRIBLE practice, made possible by a bad design. Some surely have done this with the safety disengaged. I carry this gun chamber empty, but I wonder how many will simply leave the safety off, with that rebounding hammer free to strike a primer with the right amount of force.

I have no worries with the Marlin on the half-cock, even less the earlier winchesters. The grip safety alone renders them more safe than the cross bolt IMO. the half-cock is added insurance.