WestKentucky
Member
Why are we looking at groups again? Grouping people leads to stereotypes which leads to persecution and judgement. People are not herds of cattle grouped together by one common trait. Look at the people, not at the group.
LGBT community support for the RKBA?
- Thread starter Nom de Forum
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I agree with WestKentucky. Out of my fairly large group of lesbian friends there are some that think all guns are evil little decepticons that are going to come to life and destroy us all, some that are indifferent, and some that could probably shoot three gun competition if they wanted to. They are just as diverse as any other folks.
Just as an aside, pink, purple and basic black appear to be the local favorites for frame colors.
Just as an aside, pink, purple and basic black appear to be the local favorites for frame colors.
I have to be honest here, only to show how people's opinions and views can change with the proper exposures over time...
For decades the LGBT community has been persecuted, denied, and even violated. And 20 years ago as a stupid opinionated teenager I was an ultra religious conservative extremist contributing to that persecution. I never had any violent acts against LGBT, but I was not quiet or subtle about my views every chance I could, and I'm sure that was more destructive than I'll ever know.
After getting out in the REAL world my views of so many things gradually changed. LGBT were certainly not the evil menace I had once thought. And my stance on individual rights such as gun ownership, who you love, freedom from an overbearing government, and so on have shifted to one of absolute support.
How? By having contact with and getting first hand exposure to the people, things, and ideas that I'd only before been told how to think. The right people, with the proper logic and examples, and the patience to put up with me got through for the better. Want to expand RKBA? Start by listening to people's concerns about what freedoms are important to them, and show that you both have common ground in wanting to exercise your rights and freedoms!
For decades the LGBT community has been persecuted, denied, and even violated. And 20 years ago as a stupid opinionated teenager I was an ultra religious conservative extremist contributing to that persecution. I never had any violent acts against LGBT, but I was not quiet or subtle about my views every chance I could, and I'm sure that was more destructive than I'll ever know.
After getting out in the REAL world my views of so many things gradually changed. LGBT were certainly not the evil menace I had once thought. And my stance on individual rights such as gun ownership, who you love, freedom from an overbearing government, and so on have shifted to one of absolute support.
How? By having contact with and getting first hand exposure to the people, things, and ideas that I'd only before been told how to think. The right people, with the proper logic and examples, and the patience to put up with me got through for the better. Want to expand RKBA? Start by listening to people's concerns about what freedoms are important to them, and show that you both have common ground in wanting to exercise your rights and freedoms!
Shanghai McCoy
Member
^^^ Well said.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
Unfortunately this country is way to devided for that, I'd say the exact opposite is true. I think your working on the assumption that people can and will find other areas in common, many times that would be an incorrect assumption.
Ignore your differences, respect each other's different opinion on other issues and focus solely on gun rights, even if it's the only place you agree. That's why here on THR we are discouraged from talking about things like politics, abortion, religion, and sexual orientation.
Nom de Forum
Member
Looking at groups is realistic from the standpoint of influencing individual opinions and votes. Groups of individuals often become voting blocks. That does not mean the same thing as people being members of a herd.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...rowing-lgbt-push-to-support-second-amendment/
I don't think you should try to prioritize anyone's rights.
I don't think you should try to prioritize anyone's rights.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
To you. To me. And maybe so some LGB folks, too. But that's not really an answer that will convince very many other folks. Gotta find more angles to work on than just the "2nd Amendment über Alles" argument.
Nom de Forum
Member
I am gonna have to counter this assumption. If you appear to disagree with everything the other person holds dear, they will view you has an enemy of their rights or ideologies. Good luck getting them to hear your side on anything else that is important to you.
If you have genuine support for another person in their primary causes, you show what you have in common. You make yourself an ally, and they will open up to hearing you out about what you hold dear. Now I'm not saying you should go out and feign support for LGBT if you actually don't, but there maybe other social issues you could find common ground on.
It's a shame that real world issues/topics related between gun ownership and politics/religion/etc are often quickly shut down on THR because of uncivil discourse.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Unfortunately what has become apparent both here, at THR, on many hundreds of other forums and online venues, blogs, and "response" columns, and certainly in real life, is that finding common ground with someone on ONE issue is a rare enough commodity. The more we understand each other, and the more facets of our personalities, attitudes, habits, failings, and beliefs we bare to one another, the LESS likely we are to get along.
(Recognition of that is why we play it so strictly here at THR.)
So the message has to be very simple, and as universal as possible, and divorced from other "trigger" issues.
(Recognition of that is why we play it so strictly here at THR.)
So the message has to be very simple, and as universal as possible, and divorced from other "trigger" issues.
X-Rap
Member
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The problem with these discussions lies with them being mostly one sided until someone disagrees, then things quickly turn and the thread is shut down.
I offer no support to those things I view as unnatural and harmful and if all I have in common with those who practice such is a love of guns than they will have to take it or leave it.
I am unhappy about the way some political lines are drawn, I have no love for skinheads or klansmen but it is almost assured that they will vote 2a if it is posed to them but a large percentage of the left and Bill Mayer branch of the Libertarian party could never be counted upon to support the 2a.
I offer no support to those things I view as unnatural and harmful and if all I have in common with those who practice such is a love of guns than they will have to take it or leave it.
I am unhappy about the way some political lines are drawn, I have no love for skinheads or klansmen but it is almost assured that they will vote 2a if it is posed to them but a large percentage of the left and Bill Mayer branch of the Libertarian party could never be counted upon to support the 2a.
Hammer059
Member
The two girls that work next to me at our local farmers market are a couple. And I am selling one of them a Glock 17 and Ruger LC9S this week. That's all the experience I have with this subject, but there's 2 more that you can count as pro-2A supporters.
CoalTrain49
Member
Both my brother and brother in law are gay. My BIL just recently purchased his first pistol, he's 66. My brother has asked me to give him some advice on purchasing a pistol, he's 67. Not sure if he has or not yet. I think in both cases their decisions where based on threats because they are gay. I've told both of them that they need to start paying attention to the political landscape and the threats to their right to own and carry. I think they both vote dem because LGBT is a dem agenda. My brother was happy about the latest SC ruling about gay marriage. Personally, I don't care about anyone's sexual orientation except my own just like I don't care what they think about concealed carry. What they think is none of my business.
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sappyg
Member
You know.... I could care less what this or that group thinks about anything I do or think.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I'm sorry, I don't get your point. Could you clarify?
Are you speaking as a LGBT person, and you don't care what other gay folks think of your RKBA beliefs? That's fine if that's how you feel, but do you promote RKBA among others that you know, or just -- to steal the phrase -- "don't ask, don't tell" in regards to guns?
There could hardly be a better ambassador of gun rights to the gay community than gay folks who already shoot and treasure the 2nd Amendment!
entropy
Member
Awesome! As with any other media-fueled 'hot button issue', there shouldn't be an issue at all. One of the things I like about this forum is the thoughtful open-mindedness fostered by the modereators and (most of) the members. Many moons ago, I invited a THR member who is gay to join another gun forum. He did, and eventually was harrassed by some of the more Neaderthal members there, including some of the mods. I personally apologized to him, and admonished the mod staff there for allowing that to happen. I've taught LGTB people how to shoot over the years, probably more than I know of, and I hope they, as I hope for all of those I've taught, continue to enjoy and support the shooting sports. As 2A supporters, we're all in this together.
TimSr
Member
There are 3 kinds of 2nd Amendment supportors.
1. Those who voice their support, take an active role in preserving those rights, and support elected officials who take an active role in preseving those rights.
2. Those who voice their own needs for 2nd Amendment rights because they are "special", but don't offer the same support of those rights for others.
3. Those who voice their support for the 2nd Amendment, while voting, endorsing and working for the election of rabidly anti-gun politicians in the name of party loyalty.
The last two are of little help to the cause.
Also, to ignorantly vote for anyone on the basis of their thoughts on an issue as opposed to how they can affect that issue in the course of their duties in the office for which they are running is a bit foolhardy. I often hear Hiallry "has done so much for women's rights" or Obama has "done so much for gay rights" when in fact neither has done enything beyond espressing their own viewpoints while both have taken significant action AGAINST the 2nd Amendment.
1. Those who voice their support, take an active role in preserving those rights, and support elected officials who take an active role in preseving those rights.
2. Those who voice their own needs for 2nd Amendment rights because they are "special", but don't offer the same support of those rights for others.
3. Those who voice their support for the 2nd Amendment, while voting, endorsing and working for the election of rabidly anti-gun politicians in the name of party loyalty.
The last two are of little help to the cause.
Also, to ignorantly vote for anyone on the basis of their thoughts on an issue as opposed to how they can affect that issue in the course of their duties in the office for which they are running is a bit foolhardy. I often hear Hiallry "has done so much for women's rights" or Obama has "done so much for gay rights" when in fact neither has done enything beyond espressing their own viewpoints while both have taken significant action AGAINST the 2nd Amendment.
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Nom de Forum
Member
O.K.
Now hopefully back to more informative posts about LGBT support of the RKBA and using it effectively to protect and expand the right of private ownership of firearms. So far this thread has been very informative and inspiring of optimism in LGBT 2A support. Thank you THR members.
l (lĭb′ər-əl, lĭb′rəl)
adj.
1.
a. Favoring reform, open to new ideas, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; not bound by traditional thinking; broad-minded. See Synonyms at broad-minded.
People keep accepting some hijacked version of liberal.
adj.
1.
a. Favoring reform, open to new ideas, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; not bound by traditional thinking; broad-minded. See Synonyms at broad-minded.
People keep accepting some hijacked version of liberal.
sappyg
Member
No. I am not LGBT and I speak for no one but myself. I might not believe or support what others think or say but I do believe in their right to express those ideas. Simply put, and just thinking it doesn't make it so, what we think or do as a person really isn't that important. We all have an ego and like to think we are important. You ant. And yes, I promote RKBA when I can. In the past year I've made 4 converts... Shooters... All NRA members... With club memberships to boot. Their rights are as important to them as mine are to me. They vote and they have money. I don't think they have homosexual tendencies. I guess if It was important to them they would speak up. Non have. Regardless, I just don't care.
TBH I just don't care if anyone is gay, black, green, liberal, what have you. We all have the same rights for the same reason. Being gay does not mean you are special and have extra rights. We all deserve to be offended equally. You don't have to be gay to see that liberty can be uncomfortable and, if you are gay, really doesn't matter whether you support 2a or not IMO. It is a separate issue.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ahh, ok. Well, sorry for the confusion. Read as a response to the OP's question, I didn't catch your meaning.
alexander45
Member
There was a LGBT for gun right group here in phoenix that had a open carry rally a year or so ago but I haven't heard much from them sense then with thar said most of the people in the group including my self were just straight guys that supported rights for every one.
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