LGS Price Difference
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stonebuster
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My indoor range is buying ammo at retail prices just so customers have something to shoot.
We didn't add 8 million new owners. There were 8 million more NICS checks than there were last year. No reason to assume that all of those "extra" checks were for "new" owners and that's besides all the significant problems with using NICS checks as a metric for gun purchases.Considering we added over 8 million new gun owners AFTER this all started, and they all need some ammo, it isn't hard to see why things are in short supply; of all of those 8 million owners just bought a mere 2 boxes, that's 16 million rounds; a tad more than an hour's production...................
But yes, more people buying guns, first time or otherwise, means more people buying ammo.
Oldschool shooter
Member
Doing what they have to do. I hope those that go there to shoot can appreciate the predicament they are in and don't complain too much.
stonebuster
Member
I hope they can make it. I went there today for some range time and I was the only one there. Last week was the same. A couple months ago they couldn't keep up with the number of people for their pistol permit classes. Today he told me they only have two people signed up for the next class. Rough time for them.
packetloss
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Can you point me to a proper source for this data? My understanding was that there were over 8 million first time gun buyers in 2020, not 8M more NICS checks.
That's what a lot of people are being told. Where do you think that number came from? How could anyone possibly have the slightest idea how many new gun owners there are?
I just checked. The NICS numbers came up from last time I looked a month ago. Over 11 million higher than last year.
packetloss
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That's just it, they specifically say "first time gun owners" and not 8M+ additional guns. Could just be the way they want to spin things but I have seen the lines around the corner at all the local gun stores (before the ammo shortage hit) so it rings true. Since I'm already stocked well enough, there is no way I would wait on such a line, so I can't imagine existing gun owners would suddenly think it's a good idea to stand on a 5 hour line either.
I do wonder how they could know though who was buying their first gun, but perhaps in the NICS system they can tell if it's a first ever check. That wouldn't necessarily be 100% accurate, but it would be close.
xring3
Member
My LGS is charging increased prices for ammo but, his costs from his jobber have increased also. His markup to retail has remained the same. He has said he would rather keep a customer for a long time than turn a quick buck and have a bad reputation.
They can't, unless they're breaking federal law, which is possible. NICS checks that come back proceed are supposed to be deleted within 24 hours. Even if they are breaking the law and keeping those records, I seriously doubt that information would be available to the general public for gun purchase statistics purposes.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
CapnMac
Member
There's nothing in a NICS check that indicates whether the person being processed is "new" or not.
The "new owner" numbers are extrapolated based on hearsay from LGS, and from the proportional differences between the given reporting period and some previous historical period.
There are those who "low ball" the new owner numbers to only about 2 million to contrast those "high balling" the numbers as 6-8 millions. (Both values terrify hopolophobes, who want to cling to their supposed 6-8 million gun owners, which is patently under-counting by 10x, an entire order of magnitude.)
Right, unless all of the NICS records are being kept illegally (I doubt that they are, but I don't think it's completely outside the realm of possibility)
Yeah, that's pretty funny. 6-8 million isn't even remotely close.
CapnMac
Member
NICS input is name, address, and any additional ID info--so, no age or buying status. From the NICS data, there's no way to know if this is a 1st or nth purchase (or how many FTF or gifts/bequests a person has, either).
Even the 4473 does not record 1st or nth time buyer.
Context is everything.
If you live in one of the megacities, they tend to be politically monocultures, everyone tends to be the same. So, from their experience, gun owners are rare, outliers, not-typical (even maladjusted). It's entirely human nature to assume the larger world parallels the closer one they know.
Which means they will reflexively default to that premise, especially if it comports with their desires and beliefs.
So it does not bother them to presume that gun ownership is no more than 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 1000.
It always amuses me to take a city-slicker out into the hinterlands (where the best bbq is) and see them be aghast, "That man has a [OC] gun!" To tell them that they themselves are probably the only unarmed person in the joint. Things that go against our perceptions can be disturbing.
Yes, I know. This is true IF the FBI is following the law and the results from approved NICS checks are being deleted after 24 hours.
Oldschool shooter
Member
My LGS teaches pistol permit classes. He has been holding classes every Sunday since October, 15-20 per class.
DustyGmt
Member
My local shop, the closest shop to me, is the best around price wise out of any shop I have ever been to and it was always puzzling to me since it's a pretty small, hole in the wall out in the middle of nowhere on a backroad in east bumshoe VT. There is nowhere cheaper to buy guns that I know of, and his ammo while not as cheap as Walmart used to be, he was still always within $2.50 per 50rd box and sometimes as lil as $1 more, I don't know how he did it. He always moved alot of guns new and used. One day I showed up looking for a BX trigger for my 10/22 because mine busted during a fall that almost sent me over an icy cliff/waterfall, anyway, instead of making a sale he just gave me a spare he had kicking around. Nice guy.
Anyway. My point to all this is, he always kept a competitive edge in pricing even during the pandemic rush, and I was able to buy 50rd boxes of Federal 9mm for $19 a box but lately, when he does get 9mm in its $35/box. Out of the range for what I'm willing to pay but I know it isn't his fault because of how consistently reasonable he has been over the years. He's told me he just can't get it in and when he does he has to pay through the nose, can't really sell guns without ammo to go with em so he is basically at the mercy of whoever has it for sale.
In short, instead of writing off a shop you were always satisfied with in times past, consider the fact that they are likely getting beat up on the price and have to price it high lest they sell many guns without it.
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NSSF is the source of the new gun owner estimates, not NICS. NSSF is using industry information to get the estimate.
There’s a LGS in my area that is relatively new, less than 5 years old.
They usually have just about any ammo you could want on the shelves. It’s not cheap, but they have it.
I couldn’t figure out how they have ammo when nobody else does.
A guy told me he knows the owners and they have an employee scouring the Internet every day looking for ammo.
In other words, they are working it, buying ammo at the best price they can find at retail and selling it at a higher retail price.
This strategy is keeping their doors open and the place is always packed when I stop by.
I stocked up when ammo was cheap but I go by there to see what’s on the used gun rack.
They usually have just about any ammo you could want on the shelves. It’s not cheap, but they have it.
I couldn’t figure out how they have ammo when nobody else does.
A guy told me he knows the owners and they have an employee scouring the Internet every day looking for ammo.
In other words, they are working it, buying ammo at the best price they can find at retail and selling it at a higher retail price.
This strategy is keeping their doors open and the place is always packed when I stop by.
I stocked up when ammo was cheap but I go by there to see what’s on the used gun rack.
DrillingShooter
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From 75 to 90 I was a salesman for a distributor during the time when many handguns, especially S&W were in short supply. We never charged more than dealer price, you bought a model 10 or a 29 it was dealer price. A lot of what I sold I knew was being scalped by the dealers, 29's 60's 66's were never being put in the store they were selling them at inflated prices in "Shotgun News" this was before Al Gore invented the internet. Like now some would blame the suppliers, but back then a distributor would have been shut off by the mfg. for scalping, and I believe its the same now. I'm sure the discounts are not what they were, but I'm sure if one LGS is selling at retail, and another is selling at $20. over somebody is lying to you.
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