Liberals immune from US Law, Nancy Pelosi Violates Federal Law

[Kaylee]

seems to me jpk1md did a pretty good job of laying out the "illegal" bit, in addition to the Constitutional issues.

So far as treason.... well, I can certainly see the argument for it being "aid and comfort to the enemy" but I'd definitely take some convincing on that point were I on her jury. Mostly because it's hard to make the case that Syria (or anybody else, really) is an "enemy" without a declaration of war.. I don't know as frozen diplomatic relations (or them being barbaric monsters) is enough to qualify.

Finally - Pelosi (heck, a good many in gov't) does indeed need a serious smackdown to knock off the dramatics and get back to her Constitutionally assigned role. Not that I expect she'll get it.

-K

 

[gopguy]

She was told not to go by the administration. She ignored them. Foreign policy is the job of the Executive, not the 535 members of the Legislative branch. She clearly did attempt to work on foreign policy on this trip. Those actions clearly violate the Logan Act. Her giving false information about Israel being willing to sit down with the Syrians shows she is over her head when abroad and dangerously incompetent. I only pray her reign in the House is brief....and that the Justice department does investigate if not indict her for violating the Logan Act.

 

[Kim]

If it was illegal where are all the IMPEACH POLOSI demonstrators and sit in on University Campuses and one page ads in the NYT from University Professors stating they are appauled by the ILLEGAL actions. Oh that is right. I was dreaming. Conservatives and liberals or lefties just act and operate different. We might get something from Coulter but that will be that!!!!!!! IMPEACH POLOSI NOW!!!!!!!

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I still havent read anything that indicated she was negotiating in violation of the Logan Act. All she said was that Israel was willing to talk to the Syrians. I don't see how that can be misconstrued as negotiating on behalf of the US government. She was talking about Israel, not the US, and did not attempt to offer any terms for negotiating with the US.

If the Republicans really think she has committed a crime, then she should be charged and tried fairly in a court of law, not in the media by Republican lap dogs. I am no fan of Pelosi, she is diametrically opposed to my views on almost everything. But what she did was not treasonous, and I don't see how it is even illegal. If the Republicans really think so, then bring charges and let the courts sort it out. Don't just call names and whine.

 

[Rumble]

Lone Gunman, I think the point being made is that the Logan Act doesn't say "attempt to negotiate," it says (paraphrasing) "engage in any discourse that attempts to influence the conduct of any foreign government/agent thereof in any dispute or controversy with the U.S."

Basically, the relationship of Israel to Syria and the larger Middle East is definitely a controversy involving the U.S., and thus, Pelosi's visit can be construed as meddling in that controversy, and therefore in violation of the Logan Act. The Logan Act's language is pretty broad, and in fact, any other visit by other congresspersons, Republican or Democrat, might also be construed in such a way.

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Holy cow, and what of the Republican congress critters that when to Syria before her?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

MrTuffPaws is exactly correct. If Pelosi is in violation of the Logan Act, then so is any other congressperson that has ever interacted with any representative of any foreign government.

Are Republicans sure they want to push that point?

 

[Green Lantern]

...unless those congresspeople were acting WITH the blessing of the Executive Branch...????

 

[DDrake]

Ok it seems like most people are missing the point totally. It's NOT because Democrats/republicans went to Syria.... it's NOT because they went without the Whitehouse's endorcement.


Often congressmen/women will go to other countries to get a deeper understanding of them.


They DO NOT go from one country, to another, then to another.... trying to create policy. What Pelosi did was go to Israel and thought she made political headway, then she went to Syria... speaking on behalf of Israel. This put Israel in a very difficult position. Israel always must be careful on how they word any political statements because of the sensitivity in that region. And Pelsoi screwed up big time.


True, this does not hurt the USA much .... it's not like Pelosi's actions are going to confuse Syria or going to bring up american-hate in that region. What it does is put Israel in a horrible position. Eitherway, she overstepped her bounds and made herself look like an idiot.

She acted in a very unethical manner and made herself look like an idiot.

 

[DDrake]

Another thing to consider is her statements

Our message was President Bush's message

She also said the delegation was not trying to cut deals between Syria and Israel but rather "assessing the ground truth" to inform spending decisions made by Congress.

She quickly denies acting on her own behalf (or any party). She QUICKLY states she is supporting the President's position (despite not giving permission to do so). Why? She knows brokering deals between countries would be illegal, unethical, and unconstitutional to do. She reiterates that she was not trying to cut deals about 5-6 times... cause its obvious to her that doing so would be a serious ethical crime.


Fact is: She spoke on the behalf of the Israel government. It's obvious to me that she let political partison get the best of her. If she could broker deals and somehow fix the middle-east, she would be a hero for her actions and undermind the Whitehouse. Instead, she was over-her-head and F*ed up badly.

 

[Lucky]

Wow, Syria was happy because from a foreigner P.O.V. it looks like the U.S. is fragmenting. Weak U.S.= Happy rest of world.

So you can all thank Mrs. Pelosi for undermining your country's credibility. In despotic HQ's globally they're all sitting down saying, "Damn, that smiling bitch is challenging the authority of their President, we can use this."

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Sanson1:
I'm not certain what she did was illegal, but her antics remind me of jane fonda's during the vietnam war. disgrace

How?

Does anyone here actually have proof that she did this and that Israel is not lying?

Or is it just because she is a Democrat...

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I agree she made herself look like an idiot, but speaking on behalf of Israel isn't the same thing as negotiating on behalf of the US, or creating new foreign policy. Its a stretch to think it violates the Logan Act.

If Republicans really think she broke the law, then charges should be filed and justice sought in the court system. They should not make unsubstantiated, derogatory comments and accuse her of treason in the media if there is no real grounds for charging her with a crime.

Maybe Israel intentionally misled Pelosi and implied they were more willing to negotiate than they really were in an effort to discredit her and her party. The Israelis benefit from a never-ending presence of US forces in the Middle East, and know the Democrats are against that.

 

[DDrake]

Does anyone here actually have proof that she did this and that Israel is not lying?

Or is it just because she is a Democrat...

Let's not forget, Democrats just went to North Korea, they been kuwait recently also... that isn't the issue.


And yes, she is on film smiling like an idiot saying she is "please" to announce that Israel is "willing to work out peace" agreements with Syria. Anyone who knows about Israel would clearly know they won't sit down until the funding of terrorist organizations stops.


In a country so sensitive, you think she would be careful with her words and not make public broadcasts on her political achievements in the middle-east.

 

[Robert Hairless]

No big deal, really. I'm giving some thought to making private treaties with a few countries in which I assign them certain rights in return for certain concessions. It's all pretty hush hush right now because the U.S. government could screw things up by meddling.

I can say that there is absolutely no truth to the rumor that I've negotiated a treaty with Canada in which they get all rights to Ted Kennedy in return for my exclusive right to the slogan "Drink Canada Dry."

There's relatively little truth to the rumor that I'm talking with North Korea about establishing a franchise of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives there. I do admit that Glorious Leader Kim Jong-Il is interested in having an American firm that sells the fun stuff and is intrigued by the possibility of large department stores selling liquor, cigarettes, guns, and extremely powerful firecrackers. The details are a hurdle, though, and they are complicated by Kim's insistence that Lee Paige serve as the company's spokesman on Korean television. I've tried to explain that it's a bit much to ask that the guy shoot himself in the foot repeatedly but I have to be careful not to reveal that the Drug Enforcement Agency isn't part of this package. The Glorious Leader really likes the idea of forcing people to take drugs and he claps his hands at the thought. But that's another deal and I can't get into details right now.

I wish Nancy Pelosi would stay out of the way and not complicate things globally. Surely she has more than enough to do if she focuses on ruling the United States.

I don't know how such rumors start or why people spread them.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Tecumseh:

Does anyone here actually have proof that she did this and that Israel is not lying?

That's pretty sharp of you. Israel always lies. I like the parts in which they stage the pretty rockets landing on Israeli cities and the scenes in which they fabricate shots of civilians being blown to little pieces by the tourists who have funny stuff strapped to their bodies.

The terrorist organizations never lie. They are freedom fighters and all they want is the freedom to kill Jews, Americans, non-Muslims, and some other people, and of course it's their right to do so because that's their culture. They are sadly misunderstood. They explain that the rockets are really fireworks displays they put on for the entertainment of the Israeli kids, and they complain that their tourists are being mistreated by those Israeli citizens who simply blow up at them on every occasion. Nancy Pelosi is doing a darned good job of helping.

What are your favorite parts?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

How many people here think charges will ever be filed against Pelosi for violating the Logan Act?

If charges are not filed, will it be because the Republicans are too weak and spinelss to push for that?

Or because they know she didn't violate the Logan Act?

Or because they know their congress people violate it also?

 

[Lucky]

Better question:

Having demonstrated her lack of respect for limits on gov't, or her belief that they don't apply to her, how much respect do you think she has for your rights, including RKBA?

LG this is for you.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Guys as much as I hate her, she wasnt told not to go by Bush, she was ASKED not to go. Big difference in the world of politics.

And hey, for the record, I think Syria can be reasoned with (not Iran) at the right time...but what she did was pandering...and the bit about Israel was just stupid.

Ask yourself this about Syria - if we can open up to some of the authoritarian regimes in the world like China, why not Syria? I know China has moderated over the years, but they are still one of the most repressive in the world.

 

[jpk1md]

ANY Congress-Critter that has violated the Logan Act and represented the US without the explicit permission of the Executive Branch should be charged and tossed in the can.

Our Congress-Critters are completely out of control and both sides and deserve a reality check....if that reality check is a b-smack and 3 years in Prison with a Felony so be it.

Don't get me wrong there are lots of really good/hard working Congress-Critters (none from Maryland unfortunately) but there are too many that have overstepped their boundaries and ignored the Constitution and the Laws of the US.

 

[stellarpod]

It's not a Republican/Democrat issue. ANY who broke the law should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice.

Anyone who listened to NPR this week probably heard Middle-Eastern regional journalist citing joyous affects in the region, as people defined Pelosi's trip to Syria as "proof" that the American presidency was a failure and that help was on the way.

Whether you like Bush's policy or not, this trip appears to constitute meddling that may indeed result in tactical/strategic revisions in the enemy's methods. And anyone who doesn't believe Syria is deeply involved in the support of terrorists simply has their head buried deeply in the sand.

I leave it for the lawyers to determine if there is enough grounds for prosecution.

stellarpod

 

[Master Blaster]

Better question:
Having demonstrated her lack of respect for limits on gov't, or her belief that they don't apply to her, how much respect do you think she has for your rights, including RKBA?

Bingo give the man a Cigar
Or respect for any other parts of the constitution or the rule of law when one is pushing the left wing socialist agenda??? After all she knows much better than you do what is good for you and the USA. She knows much better than those silly Israelis what is Good for Israel.

Can't you see the inner light of knowledge, inner truth and enlightenment shinning from those eyes and that smile.

She is making us look weak and foolish, and divided to people who only understand strength, and brute force, at a time when we need to look like we are capable of kicking ass at a moments notice. She is making us look weak to a man who rules by brute force and fear, a man whose dad surrounded a neighborhood of 20,000 Shiia and annhiliated them becuae they were a threat to his power. A man who ordered the assasination of the the president of lebanon,and allowed missiles and supplies to transit his country to arm the Hezzbollah suicide rocket attack on Israel, in the hope of starting a new Mideast war just last summer.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Having demonstrated her lack of respect for limits on gov't, or her belief that they don't apply to her, how much respect do you think she has for your rights, including RKBA?

I don't think she has any respect for the Constitution, including the RKBA. I am under no false illusions about her on that issue. However, that is really not related to whether or not she broke the law under the Logan Act.

The fact is, that I have respect for the Constitution and laws of the US. I don't think they should be misused by partisan politicians to falsely accuse someone of breaking laws they did not break.

She was not negotiating or even speaking on behalf of the US government, nor was she attempting to make foreign policy on her own. She simply said Israel, an independent nation, was willing to discuss things with Syria. This is obviously incorrect, and passing on false information makes her look stupid. But passing on bad information about another country doesn't seem to me to be the same thing as negotiating illegally as described under the Logan Act. I am not a lawyer, so if someone wants to make a better case for why this violates the Logan Act, i would be willing to listen.

I think it is wrong to misconstrue the law in an effort to punish political opponents, even ones like Pelosi. That is what the Republicans are trying to do right now. If they really thought there was a violation of the law, they would be pushing for criminal charges, rather than just calling her a traitor, blithering about it on the news talk shows.

She is making us look weak and foolish, and divided to people who only understand strength

Now, I agree with that. But I would also suggest that Bush has also done a lot to make us look weak, foolish, and divided as well. Maybe this is because on the subject of the War on Terror, we are weak, foolish, and divided. Time will tell.

 

[Mr.V.]

How does this whole Logan Act violation business jive with the first amendment...

Here are the exceptions I see...
1) If she had commiserated with a government that we are at declared war with (which is not Syria as pointed out earlier) then it would be treason anyway, and Pelosi ought to be hung from the nearest tree branch...

2) If she makes promises/agreements to an individual or government requiring powers she knowingly doesn't have, is that not fraud, a well recognized exclusion to first amendment protection?

But if it's a private citizen discussing ways to open dialog, determining demands, international politics, or why the Dodgers traded Beltre right when he started nailing homers...how does the Logan act limitation on that speech fit in with strict scrutiny of the first amendment?

Surely the United States government cannot abridge your speech said in a foreign country any more than it can here...I'm asking because I don't know...

 

[Car Knocker]

http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2007/04/07/#a004080