Limp Wristing

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Raz

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I periodically run across threads on various forums talking about FTFs, FTEs and other anomolies being caused by "limp wristing".

Really now! Is there ANY truth to the notion that holding your gun in a less than perfectly firm grip would cause it a malfunction? Or is this really just a perpetuated wives tale told to novices? It just doesn't seem right to me that the reliability of a tool used for life and death situations would be so finicky about how it's held.


If anyone can explain the mechanics of how "limp wristing" causes malfunctions, I would appreciate it. Of course, if the term is actually some sort of euphemism or joke, allow me to wipe the egg off my face...

:p



-Raz
 
Raz, Limp wristing is pretty common. When the cartridge ignites, it pushes back as hard as it pushes forward. The mass of the weapon absorbs much of the recoil, but still requires additional resistance to ensure that the slide cycles completely. On softer loads, like target loads, it's going to be more prevalent. I suppose the ultimate test would be to place the pistol in a frictionless environment, cocked and locked, and press the trigger with a pencil or something similar to see if the pistol will chamber the next round.

A lot of it has to do with spring strength and the power of the load being fired.

Here's a link to a discussion that covers it in more depth and detail...http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/6133
 
Limp wristing is real, and not just on "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." :D

Hold a recoil-operated handgun in a weak enough grip and you WILL induce a malfunction. With most handguns designs you have to have some seriously bad techique, or be trying really hard, to cause this to happen.
 
yes it can happen, and is more likely on a lighter gun with a more powerfull load. This is because it is relying more on you to hold the gun still so the slide can properly cycle. Heavier guns will use the mass of the weapon to hold it still (well more so anyway). So it is easier to limp wrist a P-11 for example than a 1911 (because of the weight to power ratio).
 
Simple to demonstrate, and fun to watch! I used to do this the first day of training new pistol shooters...

In a CAREFULLY controlled environment, tie off the grip safety and hang the pistol from an overhead support with two pieces of string, suspending the gun in midair pointing downrange. Place a pillow just behind the gun, trip the trigger. Almost invariably the pistol will malfunction.
 
Dead serious real. Can get someone kilt' if they are not aware of it.
 
One of my favorite issues!

First, understand that there is a difference between limp wristing
and having the grip broken from fatigue or a misplaced grip on the
pistol. Many times, a limp wrist malfunction will occur near the end of a
long string. If you are in the habit of loading a dozen or so magazines
and running through them without a break, this can happen.

Second...If the slide isn't oversprung, the pistol should function
with a limp grip. At least, if it's a carry gun, it should. Many pistols...
especially the 1911...are running with a recoil spring that is too heavy for
most reliable function. If the pistol is set up properly, you should be
able to cradle it in you hand, resting on your thumb and across your
index finger, with your wrist bent and shoot an entire magazine to
slidelock. The old test of firing one round to see if the slide locks
is only half the story.

On a heavy-use range beater, use the heaviest spring that the pistol
will function with when you use a strong, two-handed grip. If it starts
to show signs of short-cycle type malfunctions, take a break to let
your hand rest. Reliability will likely return. Be aware though, that the
heavy spring will take a toll on certain areas of the gun. No such
thing as a free lunch.

On a carry gun, use a lighter spring in case you have to go for the
gun in a hurry, with the chance that you may not get just the right
grip, because there's at least a chance that you won't...or because
the fight occurs at such close range, you are fending the attack off with
one hand, and grabbing for your pistol with the other, and you fire
one-handed from the hip...with the wrist bent to elevate the muzzle.

As a rule, a 14-pound spring in a 5-inch gun is about ideal, and 16 pounds
in a Commander. Shorter slides than Commander length sometimes
get finicky, so I try to avoid them. If you are going to the range for
an extended session...300 rounds or more, or if you shoot the pistol
weekly with lots of ammo...step back up to the standard spring, but
resist the urge to go too far out of spec on the spring. A 5-inch
pistol doesn't need a 20-pound spring, nor a Commander a 22 pounder.

The last thing to keep in mind is that although a heavy recoil spring
will reduce impact stress between slide and frame, the higher slide
speed as it returns to battery will simply stress other, more fragile
parts of the gun...like the barrel's lower lug feet.

By far, assuming that all is well with the pistol, the most important
aid to reliable function is a good magazine. Often, a seemingly
problem magazine will be cured with nothing more than a fresh spring.
I found one in the range trash can once. It was a well-used, but
undamaged OEM Colt that somebody had apparently gotten disgusted
with and tossed. I took it home, installed a Wolff spring, tweaked the
follower angle, and it works fine.

'Nuff said...

Tuner
 
If anyone can explain the mechanics of how "limp wristing" causes malfunctions
I'll try... ;)


Allowing excessive rotation of the gun around an axis (wrist) reduces the slide's linear rearward motion relative to the frame.


The recoil force is instead converted to a rotational force, that has the effect of pulling the gun off the shooter's grip due to the resulting centrifuge. This misdirected force, lost from the slide's action, could reach a point where the slide doesn't reach full rearward travel and cause any of these to occur:

a) the brass doesn't bump into the ejector with enough 'ommph', is retained by the extractor claw and reinserted into the chamber;

b) the casing bumps the ejector only but slightly, resulting to an anemic ejection. It still lingers inside the slide as the latter returns to action, and gets crunched between the breechface and the chamber hood

c) the gun frees itself from the shooters grip and smacks him in the kisser! :what:

The first two are more likely though... ;)
 
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Great explanations it's actually almost getting through my thick skull..!

I've been quite interested in this topic. I've been trying, and trying to intentionally get my KP89 to malfunction due to limp wristing, short of letting the gun fly out of my hand the best I've been able to do is get a pile of brass on top of my boot. the brass just _barely_ falls out of the gun, and goes straight down.

I finally had success with my buddies pt-140, it's not nearly as forgiving. Got a really ugly jam out of that one.

Shooting the silly Ruger so much let me develop a lot of bad habits that really showed up when shooting some other autos :(

Leo
 
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