30S fail to feed, lets talk "limp wristing"
- Thread starter RussellC
- Start date
- Status
Gotcha. I think it is one of those things people just jump on, even though I tried to make it clear from the beginning this wasnt the problem. Many times people will still respond, "well you might think you dont" or "you cant handle the caliber or other jibberish!
Russellc
Not yet, but that and shooting from a rest are next, just to quell these sort of suggestions. There is something wrong with gun is the problem.
Russellc
Another range day, to make sure of the changes last time. It is much better today, I put a bunch of stout reloads together, carefully measured. I had 230 grain RN precision Delta, 5.5 grains HP-38, 185 grain Hornady XTP with 8.0 grains of Power pistol, some left over from last trip X-treme 230 grain HP with 5.1 grains Acc #2, And some also left over from last time 185 grain X-treme FP with 6.0 grains Bullseye.
Factory ammo was Federal HST, about 100 of those. More of the Hornady Critical Duty, with the red rubberlike tips that gave me so much trouble last time. Oh, I had left over 230 grain RN I had loaded with 4.7 grains Bullseye.
I used the 9 round mag, both 10 round mas, and the 13 round mags, all OEM Glock. The 10 round mags, both of them, never faltered once! Neither did the 9 round! Even the Hornady Critical duty all functioned perfect, which was very surprising given all the trouble they gave before. The reloads with Precision Delta 230 grain FMJ RN, all perfect. The 185 grain Hornady XTP, all perfect.
Only two hangups, both of them occurred with the 13 round mag. Both the last round, one of the 230 grain RN with 4.7 grains Bullseye, and one 230 grain Federal HST, as stated, last round in mag.
Well, it is better, only one mag giving trouble, will try the 10% mag spring from Wolf Springs. One of two things, either the extractor Plunger, its spring or the springs bearing helped, or the recoil spring is breaking in slowly. Trying a new recoil spring as you recall, increased the problem dramatically. Am going to keep putting rounds through it (and replace one mag spring) I am feeling better about it.
I have one huge pile of brass to clean now, and a slightly sensitive trigger finger. I will keep posted here, if it continues to improve I will forget having someone else shoot it, but will try a pistol rest. I cant believe no failures with the 10 round mags, I was very skeptical of them.
Russellc
Factory ammo was Federal HST, about 100 of those. More of the Hornady Critical Duty, with the red rubberlike tips that gave me so much trouble last time. Oh, I had left over 230 grain RN I had loaded with 4.7 grains Bullseye.
I used the 9 round mag, both 10 round mas, and the 13 round mags, all OEM Glock. The 10 round mags, both of them, never faltered once! Neither did the 9 round! Even the Hornady Critical duty all functioned perfect, which was very surprising given all the trouble they gave before. The reloads with Precision Delta 230 grain FMJ RN, all perfect. The 185 grain Hornady XTP, all perfect.
Only two hangups, both of them occurred with the 13 round mag. Both the last round, one of the 230 grain RN with 4.7 grains Bullseye, and one 230 grain Federal HST, as stated, last round in mag.
Well, it is better, only one mag giving trouble, will try the 10% mag spring from Wolf Springs. One of two things, either the extractor Plunger, its spring or the springs bearing helped, or the recoil spring is breaking in slowly. Trying a new recoil spring as you recall, increased the problem dramatically. Am going to keep putting rounds through it (and replace one mag spring) I am feeling better about it.
I have one huge pile of brass to clean now, and a slightly sensitive trigger finger. I will keep posted here, if it continues to improve I will forget having someone else shoot it, but will try a pistol rest. I cant believe no failures with the 10 round mags, I was very skeptical of them.
Russellc
I was curious if you were experiencing any failures for the slide to lock back on the last round. This can happen if you are having true limpwrist failures.
The thing with the 30S is it uses a lighter slide than the original G30. I don't know for a fact, but I suspect that is also uses a slightly heavier spring. When you combine light slide, heavy spring, and very light frame, you have all the key ingredients for a limp-wrist prone handgun. (This is one of the reasons why you can't make a gun with a super light slide and just make up for it with a stronger spring.) Grip it tight, no problem. Grip it weakly or in one hand, and you can run into short stroking issue where the slide doesn't make it all the way back. The next round may fail to feed for two reasons. 1. It doesn't have a "running start," so it may get hung up where it normally wouldn't. 2. The slide might start to strip the next round before it's fully in position. The round isn't pushed all the way up, so the rim doesn't ride up behind the extractor all the way. This puts the round at the wrong angle against the front of the mag, causing it to tip up high and miss the chamber. If you look at the back of the case next time you get this jam, you will find the rim isn't under the extractor at all, and the extreme angle of the round ensures there's no way that it is gonna happen, anymore, at that point.
Because the new spring made it worse, I think you might be having true limpwrist malfunctions. The stronger the recoil spring, the worse it gets.
The solution for this could be hotter ammo or a weaker spring (just keep shooting it).
The new extractor parts might have helped, too. If the extractor is too tight and/or sprung too strong, it can hinder the case from sliding up behind the hook. I have had a gun that needed just a little filing/polishing on the extractor hook to fix this kind of failure to feed. The nose of the bullet was actually making it into the chamber, hitting the top of the chamber. But the round wouldn't "straighten" and go in, because of the tight extractor, so it would just stop maybe a half inch out of battery.
The thing with the 30S is it uses a lighter slide than the original G30. I don't know for a fact, but I suspect that is also uses a slightly heavier spring. When you combine light slide, heavy spring, and very light frame, you have all the key ingredients for a limp-wrist prone handgun. (This is one of the reasons why you can't make a gun with a super light slide and just make up for it with a stronger spring.) Grip it tight, no problem. Grip it weakly or in one hand, and you can run into short stroking issue where the slide doesn't make it all the way back. The next round may fail to feed for two reasons. 1. It doesn't have a "running start," so it may get hung up where it normally wouldn't. 2. The slide might start to strip the next round before it's fully in position. The round isn't pushed all the way up, so the rim doesn't ride up behind the extractor all the way. This puts the round at the wrong angle against the front of the mag, causing it to tip up high and miss the chamber. If you look at the back of the case next time you get this jam, you will find the rim isn't under the extractor at all, and the extreme angle of the round ensures there's no way that it is gonna happen, anymore, at that point.
Because the new spring made it worse, I think you might be having true limpwrist malfunctions. The stronger the recoil spring, the worse it gets.
The solution for this could be hotter ammo or a weaker spring (just keep shooting it).
The new extractor parts might have helped, too. If the extractor is too tight and/or sprung too strong, it can hinder the case from sliding up behind the hook. I have had a gun that needed just a little filing/polishing on the extractor hook to fix this kind of failure to feed. The nose of the bullet was actually making it into the chamber, hitting the top of the chamber. But the round wouldn't "straighten" and go in, because of the tight extractor, so it would just stop maybe a half inch out of battery.
Last edited:
"The new extractor parts might have helped, too. If the extractor is too tight and/or sprung too strong, it can hinder the case from sliding up behind the hook. I have had a gun that needed just a little filing/polishing on the extractor hook to fix this kind of failure to feed. The nose of the bullet was actually making it into the chamber, hitting the top of the chamber. But the round wouldn't "straighten" and go in, because of the tight extractor, so it would just stop maybe a half inch out of battery".
Gloob, this describes it perfectly. It was better, much better today. I can hardly believe the ease the Hornady Critical Duty rounds went through, given their total failure mode previously. I am loading some stronger, (not barn burners) and a lot of them to pump through the gun before doing anything else.
Russellc
Gloob, this describes it perfectly. It was better, much better today. I can hardly believe the ease the Hornady Critical Duty rounds went through, given their total failure mode previously. I am loading some stronger, (not barn burners) and a lot of them to pump through the gun before doing anything else.
Russellc
Problem solved
Apparently, the recoil spring just needed a little more break in. Also, when I installed it, the extractor plunger, spring and bearing seamed to help, but it could have been the break in. I have never had to "break in" a Glock before, but there you have it.
Ran hundreds of rounds, different reloads, different bullets, round nose, hollow point, flat point, FMJ RN, plus factory Federal HST. Flawless operation. I even tried to induce "limp wristing" by ridiculous loose gripping, left hand weak gripping etc. and could not do it.
Also shot about 150 of the same type rounds through my new Glock 21SF. Not a single hickup, right out of the box. What a great shooting gun! Just had the Trijicon HD night sights put on it yesterday...a joy to shoot with even less recoil than the 30S!
The 30S is a keeper.
Russellc
Apparently, the recoil spring just needed a little more break in. Also, when I installed it, the extractor plunger, spring and bearing seamed to help, but it could have been the break in. I have never had to "break in" a Glock before, but there you have it.
Ran hundreds of rounds, different reloads, different bullets, round nose, hollow point, flat point, FMJ RN, plus factory Federal HST. Flawless operation. I even tried to induce "limp wristing" by ridiculous loose gripping, left hand weak gripping etc. and could not do it.
Also shot about 150 of the same type rounds through my new Glock 21SF. Not a single hickup, right out of the box. What a great shooting gun! Just had the Trijicon HD night sights put on it yesterday...a joy to shoot with even less recoil than the 30S!
The 30S is a keeper.
Russellc
Good example and explaination of limp wristing, its causes and what it does to the guns functioning. As I stated, this was not what the gun was doing at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4
Russellc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4
Russellc
- Status