Glock 19 Limp Wrist/Problem Update

[JJ Alabama]

Got the G19 gen 3 and shot it yesterday. I shot 200 rounds , one handed, two handed, weak handed, etc. Flawless, no surprise there.

Then I decided to try shooting left handed (I'm a rightie) with a weaker grip, letting the gun recoil backwards a bit. Jammed a few times like that in one magazine.

Is this acceptable reliability? Again, I don't think it's totally unrealistic to accidentally grip the gun weakly if injured or in a compromised position.

I also shot my 1911 (Colt Government Model Series 80) in similar weak handed, limp positions, and could not get it to malfunction.

Just to clarify: It only malfunctions when I purposefully try to hold the gun weakly and let it recoil backward. I do not have a problem limp wristing when shooting normally, I'm trying to simulate to see what would happen if I were injured or something.

Shouldn't a self defense handgun work reliably even if held with a less-than-optimal grip?

 

[wally]

Shouldn't a self defense handgun work reliably even if held with a less-than-optimal grip?

Yes, but Glocks are one of the easier guns to "limp wrist". Just not that big an issue IMHO, (and I'm not a Glock fan) odds are when "flight or fight" kicks in you won't have fine motor control to hold the gun and limp wrist it -- chicken choker grip is more likely.

 

[ohbythebay]

Really ?

Another Glock bash thread ? Left handed, limp wrist and blame the guns reliability ? It really gets a bit tired after a while. Just my opinion. As a very happy Glock 19 Gen 4 owner. still waiting for it to fail after the 1200+ rounds it now has on it...

 

[JJ Alabama]

Another Glock bash thread ?

I'm not bashing Glock at all. I just bought one. This is a legitimate concern that maybe some others could shed some light on. Maybe I'm being too picky.

 

[rcmodel]

Keep shooting.

It will get better after a few hundred more rounds weakens the recoil spring a little, and the slide rails get slicker.

rc

 

[F-111 John]

Because Glocks have a light polymer frame instead of a heavy steel frame, they are more susceptible to limp wristing.

Watch MAC explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4

 

[JJ Alabama]

Because Glocks have a light polymer frame instead of a heavy steel frame, they are more susceptibleto limp wristing.

I understand that, but should this be acceptable for a weapon I'm trusting my life to?

 

[Spats McGee]

Having watched you go through a couple of threads on this, JJ Alabama, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm not sure it's acceptable to you. Whether it's acceptable to any of us . . . . is really irrelevant.

 

[tarosean]

I understand that, but should this be acceptable for a weapon I'm trusting my life to?

Sell it and move on if it still bothers you.. They have malfunctions, on occasion, as will any gun you pick up. They are on par with any major manufacture. Training how to deal with those malfunctions is key.

I had a single FTF in 187rds shot Sunday with my 17RTF2 (Win 124g NATO) .. Not sure the issue was either, as it was in the middle of a match! I must have stepped on the round and drove it to never never land, or the RO did it.... Oooor it failed to feed entirely. Not sure as I didn't have the time to ponder it. Tap Rack Bang and continue on...

It happens, and won't be the last time.

 

[F-111 John]

I understand that, but should this be acceptable for a weapon I'm trusting my life to?

That is a decision only you can make for yourself. As for me, Yes, I trust my life to my Glock 26.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Put a 12lb recoil spring in it and see how it runs. If you can still get it to malfunction than sell it. To me a gun that can be limp wristed is not acceptable but like other have said its only what matters to you.

 

[skiking]

If you want to avoid limp wristing a glock stop trying to. If it is that important to you, practice single/two hand malfunction clearing so if/when it happens you can get the thing back up and running fast.

I absolutely trust my life to my G19, have 1300 rounds through it without a hitch. Haven't tried to get it to jam, but I practice clearing malfunctions because Murphy is waiting in ambush and it would just be my luck that the first time it doesn't go bang when I pull the trigger will be at the absolute worst time.

 

[1911 guy]

My gripe abut Glock is the ergonomics, but not the reliability. I've got to give them credit for getting that right.

I shoot once in a while with a guy who absolutely loves his Bennelli shotgun. He can make it malfunction on demand. If you try hard enough, you can make anything foul up.

If you like the pistol otherwise, I say evaluate how likely this is in real life. The answer is probably "not very".

Can't believe I'm sticking up for Glock...

 

[GLOOB]

What ammo?

Try Nato spec or +P ammo with at least 124 grain bullet weight. Repeat your limpwrist test. I think you'll be a happy camper. You can still shoot the cheap stuff, all you want. And you can carry the more expensive stuff if you're worried.

 

[gamestalker]

I have seen this happen with nearly any AL handgun. And although some are more susceptible than others, it's a real concern with any AL-ing handgun. My daughter in law has been struggling with her .40 cal. XD for some time now. And what really concerns me is, anyone in a self defense situation not having enough time to focus on their hold, could very easily encounter this at the worst possible time.

It is for this specific reason that I carry a revolver for self defense. 15-20 rounds of the best self defense ammunition obtainable, with the finest AL obtainable, won't do me any good, if the firearm fails to cycle when I need it the most. And even with extensive practice and training, it's still a very viable concern and should be considered before deciding on which firearm is best suited for self defense. Revolvers and AL's both have their draw backs, but personally, I would rather have 5-8 rounds I can positively count on vs the possibility of only having one defensive shot to count on. Having been in such a situation, I speak from experience.

GS

 

[Warp]

Got the G19 gen 3 and shot it yesterday. I shot 200 rounds , one handed, two handed, weak handed, etc. Flawless, no surprise there.

Then I decided to try shooting left handed (I'm a rightie) with a weaker grip, letting the gun recoil backwards a bit. Jammed a few times like that in one magazine.

Is this acceptable reliability? Again, I don't think it's totally unrealistic to accidentally grip the gun weakly if injured or in a compromised position.

I also shot my 1911 (Colt Government Model Series 80) in similar weak handed, limp positions, and could not get it to malfunction.

Just to clarify: It only malfunctions when I purposefully try to hold the gun weakly and let it recoil backward. I do not have a problem limp wristing when shooting normally, I'm trying to simulate to see what would happen if I were injured or something.

Shouldn't a self defense handgun work reliably even if held with a less-than-optimal grip?

Try that with your defensive ammo of choice and report back.

My personal favorite is Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P

What ammo?

Try Nato spec or +P ammo with at least 124 grain bullet weight. Repeat your limpwrist test. I think you'll be a happy camper. You can still shoot the cheap stuff, all you want. And you can carry the more expensive stuff if you're worried.

Precisely.

If you want to mimic a potential defensive use...do it right.

 

[rs7]

If you are unable to reliably fire a pistol known to be reliable, buy one known to be unreliable. The problem is most likely you.

 

[JDGray]

If you are unable to reliably fire a pistol known to be reliable, buy one known to be unreliable. The problem is most likely you.

He knows its him, cause he's trying to get it to malf...

Its all physics, like the others have mentioned

 

[Gtscotty]

If you decide you want to sell that jam-o-matic at a crushing loss give me a heads up. Otherwise I would shoot a few more rounds to get everything broken in, then retry your test with a defensive ammo that you would actually carry (not 115gr Winchester Wimpy Bullets).

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Everything has a compromise. I also have a glock but its not my carry gun for a couple reasons kind of like your.

But because I want a gun that can't be limp wristed with weak factory ammo and can still run +p+ ammo there is a price. My carry gun weights 39 Oz's unloaded which is about twice as much as the g19.

There's no such thing as the prefect gun you can only try to get the one that is the best for you.

 

[TestPilot]

I understand that, but should this be acceptable for a weapon I'm trusting my life to?

Simple answer: YOUR CALL.

Whether if a gun is too sensitive to non-optimal hold is a part of my evaluation criteria.

I shoot M&P40, and it works fine.

 

[fastbolt]

TANSTAAFL.

(There ain't no such thing as a free lunch )

I've heard some folks ask the same question about different gun, ammo & shooter combinations that seem to make it easier for some shooters to deliberately create a shooter-induced stoppage.

Yes, it can happen. That's why we train and practice to be able to maintain proper grip technique under demanding conditions.

No, we can't predict what we may, or may not, be able to do under conditions involving injury or temporary physical disability. TANSTAAFL.

Ask yourself this ...

What if you're unable to make a proper fist and use a good punching technique because you're injured the wrong way at the wrong moment in the wrong situation?

Does that mean you expect a good punching technique ought to work even if you can't make a proper (tight) fist or align your arm behind your fist because of an injury? Do you realistically expect martial arts (or boxing) techniques to always work even if you're injured and can't do what's needed to be done on your part?

While I happen to dislike the term "limp-wrist" ... as it really doesn't describe the possibility of a lack of firmness in a grip AND a lack of grip support & stability of the wrist being locked behind the hand ... it's possible for even steel & aluminum-framed pistols to experience momentary grip stability issues, depending on the shooter and/or the ammo.

I've collected a fair number of factory armorer manuals over the years of attending various classes (and recerts) for different makes/models of pistols. One thing they share in the trouble-shooting sections is how a feeding stoppage or other functioning issue might be caused by a shooter grip problem ... even the metal framed guns.

Some folks can't seem to induce a grip stability problem if they try ... and some can't seem to help themselves avoid doing it ... and then there's everything & everyone else in between.

Practice, practice, practice.

If you're really worried about it, get a revolver.

 

[SwampWolf]

Shouldn't a self defense handgun work reliably even if held with a less-than-optimal grip?

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely. There are too many scenarios when a less than ideal grip is the best one can manage in a life and death self-defense situation to trust a pistol subject to jamming when held less than optimally. I don't have nearly as much experience with Glock pistols that others have but I do have several semi-autos that I own that I cannot induce a malfunction with, no matter how hard I have tried with the "limpest" wrist possible, just shy of dropping the gun. The pistols that I've found to be virtually flawless no matter how lightly I held them are Third Generation Smiths (I have 3), SIG P-series (I have 2), SIG and Colt 1911s, a Beretta Model 92FS, an HK USP 40 (I did have a failure to feed on one occasion with this pistol when held limply but I couldn't get it to do it again) and a CZ 85B.

I'm only recounting my experience while trying to induce a limp-wrist failure on pistols that I own and shoot. It's possible, I suppose, that someone else could get a malfunction with one of these pistols if they tried hard enough-but I doubt it. But, because it's always possible for any semi-auto to malfunction for many different reasons other than just holding it the wrong way, it's prudent to practice and master pistol clearance drills.

One final thought: you can't limp-wrist a revolver.

 

[Steve C]

If you use any of the premium defense type ammo that is higher velocity and power compared to typical less expensive "practice" ammo there will be difficulty in getting any handgun to misfire due to limp wristing. Use of inexpensive ammo where 115gr bullets are loaded to less than 1,200 fps will not provide as much recoil momentum when compared to a heavier 124gr bullet at the same velocity or a 115gr JHP at 1,250 fps +.

Shouldn't a self defense handgun work reliably even if held with a less-than-optimal grip?

For for the greatest majority of "less than optimal grips" the Glock works just fine. You really have to work at it to produce a failure. Tens of thousands of LEO's carry Glocks every day and have for years, if it was a real "problem" do you think it would still be the number 1 police handgun in the US?

If this is a paradigm you feel you can't overcome then get yourself a double action revolver that doesn't rely on how well you hold the gun as was previously suggested.

 

[Warp]

I do have several semi-autos that I own that I cannot induce a malfunction with, no matter how hard I have tried with the "limpest" wrist possible, just shy of dropping the gun.

And I have tried the same with my Glock 26. Other than the possible exception of the G42, the G26 is the smallest, lightest, weakest Glock model available in the United States. I "gripped" it as loosely as I could safely manage, with only one finger even around the grip, with cheap weak WWB 115 FMJ...it cycled juuuust fine.

If it hadn't, I would have tried again with defensive ammo, to truly replicate a possible carry/real world condition. But even that was not necessary.

And yes, we've all seen the video of the guy "limp wristing" his Glock...as if anybody in the real world would ever hold a gun like that, even under extraordinary conditions. And even if you did, you would seem to be violating safety rules by not having any way of aiming the thing, thus it's a Rule #3 violation because your sights are not on target, and probably a Rule #4 violation because you can't tell where it's pointed so you can't be sure of your target and backstop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA