Lipsey & Ruger…ask for a GP100 in 41 Magnum!!!

Right on, Onty. 45 Colt has cylinder throats from .450 to .457, 44 mag has throats from .428 to .434, but I've never even heard of a 41 mag cylinder throat that wasn't between .410 and .412 . . . big difference in accuracy potential.
 
For 41 Magnum fans, here is thread with tons of info: .41 Mag Association https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/41-mag-association.599046/

Also, I found very interesting post what properly loaded 41 Magnum could do. And we are not talking about 1400+fps. Amazing!

ELK & THE 41 BISLEY

The load consisted of a 250 gr LBT WFN & 9.2 grs of Unique, this loads screams out at about 1100 fps, maybe less. As the lead cow brought them along I waited until she was directly broadside, stopped them with a cow call & lined up on the front shoulders, at the shot she dropped straight down, she never took a single step, her head came up as I approached & I gave her a finishing shot in the head & it was over. My shot had taken out both shoulders & exited...The distance, ranged after the shot was 74 yds, slightly downhill & perfectly broadside.

More at https://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=69822&highlight=magnum
 
I totally forgot that the 10mm version of the GP already has a larger barrel shank. 11/16" compared to 5/8" on the .357 and .44Special. Which is a hair bigger than the .670" of the N-frame. The Redhawk, by contrast is 3/4", so 1/16th bigger.

Also worthy of note that the standard GP is a bit bigger than the L-frame at 5/8" (.625") compared to .562".

All these measurements are at the threads, not the forcing cone.
 
Onty said:
For 41 Magnum fans, here is thread with tons of info: .41 Mag Association https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/41-mag-association.599046/

Also, I found very interesting post what properly loaded 41 Magnum could do. And we are not talking about 1400+fps. Amazing!

ELK & THE 41 BISLEY

The load consisted of a 250 gr LBT WFN & 9.2 grs of Unique, this loads screams out at about 1100 fps, maybe less. As the lead cow brought them along I waited until she was directly broadside, stopped them with a cow call & lined up on the front shoulders, at the shot she dropped straight down, she never took a single step, her head came up as I approached & I gave her a finishing shot in the head & it was over. My shot had taken out both shoulders & exited...The distance, ranged after the shot was 74 yds, slightly downhill & perfectly broadside.

More at https://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=69822&highlight=magnum
Click to expand...
That was a neat hunting story. Thanks for sharing.
 
CraigC said:
I totally forgot that the 10mm version of the GP already has a larger barrel shank. 11/16" compared to 5/8" on the .357 and .44Special. Which is a hair bigger than the .670" of the N-frame. The Redhawk, by contrast is 3/4", so 1/16th bigger.

Also worthy of note that the standard GP is a bit bigger than the L-frame at 5/8" (.625") compared to .562".

All these measurements are at the threads, not the forcing cone.
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing this crucial information. Now, if we could convince Ruger to make GP100 with cylinder at least long as on 41 BH, include barrel 7,5", and keep weight no more than 48 oz., I will grab one in a heart bit.

BTW, I am OK with 5-bore cylinder.
 
CraigC said:
I totally forgot that the 10mm version of the GP already has a larger barrel shank. 11/16" compared to 5/8" on the .357 and .44Special. Which is a hair bigger than the .670" of the N-frame. The Redhawk, by contrast is 3/4", so 1/16th bigger.

Also worthy of note that the standard GP is a bit bigger than the L-frame at 5/8" (.625") compared to .562".

All these measurements are at the threads, not the forcing cone.
Click to expand...
Sir, just out of curiosity, what's cylinder opening lengthwise in the frame of GP100, especially in 10 mm Auto? If that dimension is 1.75" or even tad longer, that could be a clear indication that Ruger is planning to put in this frame something more potent than 10 mm Auto or 44 Special.
 
Onty said:
Sir, just out of curiosity, what's cylinder opening lengthwise in the frame of GP100, especially in 10 mm Auto? If that dimension is 1.75" or even tad longer, that could be a clear indication that Ruger is planning to put in this frame something more potent than 10 mm Auto or 44 Special.
Click to expand...
The GP100 accommodates a .357 Magnum. The SAAMI maximum COL of .41 Mag and .357 Mag are the same; 1.590". They don't need a different cylinder length to do a .41 mag GP100.
 
I am aware of SAAMI specification for magnum (and other rounds). However, most of revolvers in magnum calibers have longer cylinders, to accommodate rounds with OAL longer than SAAMI spec. As a consequence (If I remembered correctly), S&W M19/66 will take loaded round with Lyman 358429 bullet crimped in a crimp groove. However, much lager and stronger M27 on N-frame, has shorter cylinder, and the only way to use Lyman 358429 is to crimp it in front of first driving band. As a matter of fact, in my early days, I always wanted the most graceful S&W, M27 with 8-3/8" barrel. However, when I found about its short cylinder, I lost interest in M27. And from what I found, I am not the only one.

Also, Ruger NMBH (large frame) will take 41 Magnum round with bullet with crimp groove to tip distance .430". 44 Magnum bullets could have crimp groove to tip distance .450". Redhawk and Super Redhawk in 44 Magnum could use bullets with crimp groove to tip distance .500". The advantage is that when bullets protruding out of case more than SAAMI spec, there is more powder space, so we can put more powder safely, and get higher velocities.
 
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Ruger (S&W, Colt and others too) had already made every revolver I had seen with cylinder longer than SAAMI spec requires. I don't see any reason why Ruger wouldn't do the same on eventual GP100 in 41 Magnum. Also, longer cylinder makes so called freebore effect, thus lowering the peak pressure.
 
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Onty said:
I don't see any reason why Ruger wouldn't do the same on eventual GP100 in 41 Magnum.
Click to expand...
Okay, but I have to ask, if max COL is the same for .357 and .41, why does Ruger need to lengthen the .357 cylinder for a .41 other than to meet your personal desire?
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, (okay, maybe just a little) but I don't grasp your contention. A=B. A works fine, so why is the modification needed for B?
 
Old_Grouch said:
Okay, but I have to ask, if max COL is the same for .357 and .41, why does Ruger need to lengthen the .357 cylinder for a .41 other than to meet your personal desire?
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, (okay, maybe just a little) but I don't grasp your contention. A=B. A works fine, so why is the modification needed for B?
Click to expand...

Because some "Classic" bullets protrude farther than SAAMI OAL. The second bullet from the left is the Lyman 410459 that loads to an OAL of 1.70. All of the other bullets in the picture will load to SAAMI length.

In my mid-frame 41 magnum I cannot load the Keith bullet in magnum brass and crimp in the crimp groove.My solution is to load that bullet in 41 Spl brass so that I can stay within the constraints of the cylinder in that particular 41 magnum that has a 357 magnum length cylinder.

OLGzono.jpg
 
Last Sunday I received a PM from a forum member, telling me not to expect 5 bore 41 magnum in GP100, just 6 bore 41 Special. In his view, 41 Magnum will have heavy recoil, and why would somebody need such caliber in GP100.

I answered, quote:

"You have inside information!?...

...When there is 10mm Auto, I don't need 41 Special...

..Because 41 Magnum could be always downloaded to 41 Special level. opposite cannot be done. Also, if GP100, 6" has 45 oz, and 41 Magnum Blackhawk 6.5" has 41 oz, where do you see a problem? IMO, Ruger should run both; 41 Special, with 4.2" barrel, and 41 Magnum with 4.2" and 6" barrels."

BTW, he didn't participate in this thread.

Anybody else received similar PM?
 
Onty said:
Last Sunday I received a PM from a forum member, telling me not to expect 5 bore 41 magnum in GP100, just 6 bore 41 Special. In his view, 41 Magnum will have heavy recoil, and why would somebody need such caliber in GP100.

I answered, quote:

"You have inside information!?...

...When there is 10mm Auto, I don't need 41 Special...

..Because 41 Magnum could be always downloaded to 41 Special level. opposite cannot be done. Also, if GP100, 6" has 45 oz, and 41 Magnum Blackhawk 6.5" has 41 oz, where do you see a problem? IMO, Ruger should run both; 41 Special, with 4.2" barrel, and 41 Magnum with 4.2" and 6" barrels."

BTW, he didn't participate in this thread.

Anybody else received similar PM?
Click to expand...
1) I would be glad to see you and perhaps others stop hijacking revolver threads with persistent mention of 10 mm. It is not a revolver round and is not in real demand for competition AFAIK. Even 45 ACP revolvers have gone by the wayside in competition. I had two of those by S&W and thought they were goofy looking adaptations, although quite accurate to shoot. An N-frame is just ugly with a cylinder that short. At minimum, start your own thread. I signed up for 41 Magnum notifications.

2) Ruger will not likely make guns for nonexistent ammo. My 41 Special GP100 is worth $1350 as a conversion but I have to load my own ammo. The smith who did my gun will no longer do that conversion. The essential of brass is covered by Starline. I never considered cutting down any of my 41 Magnum brass.
 
RKRCPA said:
Because some "Classic" bullets protrude farther than SAAMI OAL. The second bullet from the left is the Lyman 410459 that loads to an OAL of 1.70. All of the other bullets in the picture will load to SAAMI length.
Click to expand...

I had some of those bullets, too. While they were very nice bullets, they did not play nice with my Marlin 1894FG... because of the OAL. They worked fine in my Dan Wesson .41... so that's where I got rid of them.
 
Well if Ruger made a 41 mag GP100 I would buy one.
6 shot 4.25" or longer barrel, decent trigger and fiber optic front sight, rubber grips would be my preference. 41 special version would also work for me but chance of that happening approaches zero,

Since not much would change it could be a good assignment for a rookie engineer. Mainly make sure the gun can safely take the stress and keep warranty repair costs reasonable. Heck I bet a lot of that work has already been done probably more than once
 
whatnickname said:
Lipsey and TALO Distributors have both influenced Ruger to produce some very interesting and desirable firearms. I contacted Ruger last year, after purchasing my first GP100 in 44 Special with a 3” barrel. Basically said if you guys can make a 5 shot GP100 in 44 Special you can sure as heck make one in 41 Magnum. Got the standard form letter response.

Got to thinking that Lipsey might be able to influence Ruger to tackle this project. Got a very interesting e-mail from Lipsey in response. Apparently they have been talking to Ruger about this very thing for some time. Ruger is unwilling to invest the time in the R&D for this project. I bet if we blew up Ruger’s e-mail asking for this they would come around. How about it? Is anyone willing to shoot Ruger a bunch of e-mails asking for a GP100 in 41 Magnum?
Click to expand...
I wonder if you meant 41 Special. I have that gun, 3" GP100, 6 shot. It's pretty rough when trying to make it shoot like a magnum.
 
RealGun said:
I wonder if you meant 41 Special. I have that gun, 3" GP100, 6 shot. It's pretty rough when trying to make it shoot like a magnum.
Click to expand...

No sir. I wanted a 41 magnum and feel that the GP 100 is robust enough to handle that kind of pressure in a 5 shot cylinder. Apparently Lipsey agreed with me but Ruger wouldn’t budge.
 
This thread got me wishing I had a GP in .41 mag, then I remembered a S&W Mountain Gun that I had a few yrs ago .
The Mountain Gun has a smaller diameter barrel for weight savings (I forget what S&Ws name for that is)
It wasn't fun to shoot with magnum loads. It was the first gun I sold when I needed cash.

You can see pics of Reeder's Skorpion, and there isn't much thickness to the cylinder.
I do like the .41 mag in my Blackhawk for a few reasons - There's more thickness to the cyl than a .44, and that's good for handloading +P hunting loads. Also good for handloading is that the cyl is long enough to allow longer than SAAMI spec which is good for the same purpose.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...rpion-41-magnum-revolver.cfm?gun_id=100674479
 
Old_Grouch said:
I don't see it being in Ruger's interest, from a legal standpoint, to alter a design for the purpose of accommodating non-SAAMI spec ammo.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you think about it, Ruger could blow it out chambering a GP or similar in '.41SPC.' The dimensions for it already exist, they could change the name to .41 Ruger or something like that, and have SAAMI approve the standard.

But... I agree... even though Ruger has been nice enough to make .41 revolvers for us in the past, I don't see them willingly go off the reservation to make a 'wildcat' chambered pistol.
 
I like the idea of the .41 Spl and would buy a GP .41 Spl in a heart beat. I reload and enjoy unique cartridges, so it is a win/win for me.

A true .41 Spl. would be the best iteration of the original concept of decent bite without a lot of bark.

I think we are starting to see a full saturation of the gun market with current trends. Usually when this happens we see some things that would otherwise not make it to the market. Hopefully the .41 Spl. is one of them.
 
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