little girl killed by bear in gun free zone

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National Forests... I've always had something either on or nearby. When hiking, Concealed.

National Parks... Fifth Amendment time. Bad Guys and Hungry big things seem to ignore ALL the rules... don't they read the signs and agree to play fair? ;)

Here in Las Vegas, when out in the surrounding mountains, I do not worry about bears, but I've seen catamounts playing up on the old golf course at the Mt. Charleston Lodge/Hotel while we were up in our room. Beautiful. Fast.
I've hiked trails up there as well and did not see anything and realize that I probably won't, but I know they're there... somewhere, nearby.
 
In Colorado I am fully legal to either carry concealed or open in all BLM, State Lands (except school), National Forest, City Parks (generally concealed required) or National Forest lands. I limit the amount of time I spend in National Parks or Monuments.

I of course would never, never violate idiotic laws of my betters.
 
9mm or 45 in FMJ?

Just for curiosity’s sake, which would be better for defense against black bear a 9mm
FMJ or a 45 FMJ? Not that I would ever carry in a gun-free-zone.
:evil:
 
Actually, bear is the only wild meat I don't care for. I'll eat it, but it's last on my list.
Biker
 
This is a good example why I don't go to such areas. If the place will not allow me to be able to protect myself or loved ones, I will not support or patronize that place.

I go to the wild areas to escape a bureacracy not to be confronted by more of it. There are a lot of places that allow one to carry outside of National Parks.

Whenever I go camping or traipsing about in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, I always have my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 magnum with me.As long as you have a permit, which NH is a shall issue state or hunting license you can carry a handgun in the WMNF year round. Never had a problem.
 
The NPS has its own federal regulations banning firearms on its property. You are subject to arrest and federal time if you're caught. The NFS and BLM traditionally mirror state law on the subject. So if your state prohibits carrying of firearms in its forests except during hunting season, then the NFS and BLM will mirror these laws. If, as here, the state allows carrying at all times then the same is allowed in the national forests. But to my knowledge neither organization has its own CFR's banning firearms or establishing federal criminal punishments, let alone a police force to enforce the laws. I suspect the ban in this case is really just application of existing state laws.

Just for curiosity’s sake, which would be better for defense against black bear a 9mm
FMJ or a 45 FMJ? Not that I would ever carry in a gun-free-zone.

A spear would be better than either. Those rounds are not designed for any sort of hunting. You might get lucky, but they have horribly low sectional density and terrible performance.
 
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What does...

bear taste like....bear. It seems to taste best when made into sausage, at least in my estimation. Not bad cubed into a stew either. Didn't care much for it when cooked by itself.

migoi
 
Someone from Tenn can correct me on this, but it appears under 39-17-1307 that possession and carrying in public in defense of livestock from predators is allowed, but NOT carrying in defense of one's family from predators (barring a CCW permit, of course). That's a bit of a gap. This incident will hopefully spur a correction in the code.
 
What I find bizarre is how the major news outlets still refer to this black bear as "on the loose." As if it was somehow confined before it killed. It's WILD people. It's ALWAYS been on the loose. I half expect Anderson Cooper to cut in announcing they've found the bear hold up in some farmhouse threatening to shoot anyone who comes near.

I'm also annoyed by the surprise the officials are showing. This was far from the first time a black bear has gone predatory on people, and it won't be the last. The rangers seemed to be clueless about this fact, and if the hip of the fellow they interviewed tonight was any indication they're packing nines or .40's. Not a very well prepared force. They're probably out there trying to hunt it with tricked out AR's right now. One idiot ranger was speculating it might have a brain tumor making it act oddly!! Did the bear go up on the school tower and start shooting people? Idiots.
 
Screw all that. I carry EVERYWHERE. If there is not a metal detector to stop me, I am going armed. National Parks, Federal buildings, Post Offices, Disney World, Church, golfing, etc., it doesn't matter. Concealed means exactly that - concealed. Maintain the ability to protect myself and my family or take a chance on the EXTEEEEEEEMELY SMALL chance that someone may detect that I am armed. IMHO, it's not really a choice - it a far gone conclusion. The mere presence of a pistol undoubtedly saved my life one time way back in the 70's, so the utility of having one, always, made an everlasting impression on me. I will take my chances with the legal system over the criminal cast system - Thank You.
 
"and if the hip of the fellow they interviewed tonight was any indication they're packing nines or .40's."

FWIW, the ranger interviewed early this morning on the NBC cable channel said the shot was taken with a .380.

John
 
FWIW, the ranger interviewed early this morning on the NBC cable channel said the shot was taken with a .380.

A .380? Lord, I didn't think any LEO's actually used those for sidearms anymore! That's almost a joke--shooting a bear with a .380. What were they thinking?
 
According to this study, the belief of menstrual cycles attracting bear is incorrect. I'd think maybe the babies more resemble food, like a fawn than anything else.
Maybe urine soaked diapers?


http://www.bearstudy.org/Research/Publications/Reactions of Black Bears to Human Menstrual Odors.pdf

DISCUSSION
No bear showed appreciable interest in menstrual odors regardless of the bear’s age, sex, reproductive status, or the time of year. The lack of interest by black bears in menstrual blood contrasts with polar bears’ attraction to it (Gushing 1983). That polar bears are more carnivorous than black bears might not explain the difference because 3 black bears that had killed deer fawns (Odocoileus virginianus) prior to experiments in our study showed little or no interest in used tampons. The 2 studies differ in that black bears in Minnesota probably had more food available to them than did polar bears at Cape Churchill, Manitoba, where essentially no bear food was available when the studies were conducted. Lack of food could cause bears to show unusual interest in low preference items. The lack of interest by black bears that we observed does not necessarily indicate that menstrual odors are never attractive to black bears. However, under conditions of our study, menstrual odors were essentially ignored.


The bear meat I had in Minnesota was chipped like beef in a white gravy on toast. Ate it all and wanted more.
Of course I was much hungrier more often back then.

Vick
 
a .380?

shooting a bear with a .380. What were they thinking?

maybe the tv news guy mixed up a .308 with a three eighty...or with a .38...

or maybe it's true and there is no thinking allowed in the Forest Service.
Does anyone think this will change the gun rules?

How is it that CA has better gun laws for it's national forest then Tennesee and Florida???
 
According to this study, the belief of menstrual cycles attracting bear is incorrect. I'd think maybe the babies more resemble food, like a fawn than anything else.
Maybe urine soaked diapers?

It's just predation, pure and simple. There's no mystery to it. The bear knows perfectly well it's attacking a human. These animals can smell a human from miles away, so they're not likely to mistake a kid for a fawn. After a while the right set of circumstances come up and a hungry bear figures "well, why not? You're smaller than me, so inside you go!" There's no malice to it, and no point in getting all worked up about it.

The business of being attacted to women during that time of the month was likely cooked up as a way of keeping wives out of hunting parties. It's bunk. What really attracts them are twinkies and junk food.

A lot more of this sort of activity goes on with black bears than people are aware of. There have been dozens of documented attacks with some fatalities in this state, typically involving a black bear stalking and then attacking a human smaller than itself. The attacks are often misunderstood, as are many near misses. They don't bark, spank the dirt, act crazy or anything like that. They just walk right up and go to work. A lot of cases chalked up to "cute curiosity" such as a black bear poking his head in your tent and looking around are really a case of predatory cost/benefit analysis. If you look too big, or something doesn't look right to the bear, he'll leave. But he's absolutely thinking about eating you. And he absolutely knows there's humans in that tent from half a mile down wind.

This behavior is far less common among brown bear, with the Treadwell case and a handful of others being the only situations where they've killed out of apparent predatory desire.
 
well I looked it up

the fire and rescue chief used a .380!
I guess any gun is better then no gun.

I guess that he is more search and rescue then LE and
this might very well be the only time he ever needed a gun
and picked a .380 as his carry gun because it is very light.

I wonder if the little girl had candy in her pockets.
 
Someone might have been feeding it, thereby reducing its fear of man. But a bear after the candy will go get the candy. Not eat the kids.
 
Bear Suspected in Death Caught in Tenn.
http://www.sierratimes.com/rss/news..._on_re_us/bear_attack&time=1145245984&feed=us

By ROSE FRENCH, Associated Press Writer 41 minutes ago

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A black bear was caught in a forest recreation area Sunday and euthanized so experts could determine whether it was the same animal that attacked a family and killed a 6-year-old girl.
Authorities found a bear in the same trap where they detected paw prints on Saturday in the remote Cherokee National Forest Chilhowee Recreation Area, U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Sharon Moore said.

The bear, which was captured near the site of the attack, looked to be the same size as the bear that attacked a mother and her two children on a trail in the recreation area on Thursday, she said.

"We're very hopeful this is the bear," Moore said. "It's basically the same size bear. There's truly not that many bears in the 5,000 acres we have closed off."

The bear's body was sent to the University of Tennessee's College of Veterinary Medicine in Knoxville, where experts planned to perform a necropsy Monday. Results were not expected for several days.

Dr. Linden Craig, a pathobiologist, told The Knoxville News Sentinel that doctors will take samples from its gastrointestinal tract to determine if the bear had consumed any human tissue. The bear's teeth will be compared to wounds sustained by the victim and its brain will be tested for rabies, she said.

"If it doesn't have rabies, hopefully we can find something else wrong with it that could explain its behavior," Craig told the newspaper.

A bear killed Elora Petrasek Thursday afternoon as she and her family were leaving a waterfall pool on a rugged, 1,800-foot-high mountaintop, about 10 miles from the nearest highway.

The bear bit the girl's 2-year-old brother, Luke Cenkus, on his head and punctured his skull, officials said. Their mother, Susan Cenkus, 45, tried to fend off the bear with rocks and sticks but the bear attacked her, dragging her yards off the trail.

Her 6-year-old daughter apparently ran away and almost an hour passed before a rescuer found her body about 100 yards off the trail with the bear. The man said he shot twice at the bear with a pistol before it ran away.

Luke Cenkus was in fair condition and their mother remained in critical condition, hospital officials said Sunday. Doctors said they expected both to recover.

The family from Clyde, Ohio, had stopped at the forest recreation area Thursday while they were in the area to visit Susan Cenkus' eldest son, a music student at Lee University in Cleveland, near Chattanooga.
 
If you travel in areas where ther are Black Bears you run a risk of being attacked. Black Bears from my experience are for the most part shy animals. That said every once in awhile one will decide to make you part of their diet. No surprise here they are just doing what any animal will do. If they are hungry and you happen to be close at hand ...you are on the menu.

I carry all the time up here. Chances of being attacked - slim and close to none, but....

IMHO a 9MM would be to light, I carry a 1911 loaded with .45-08 cartridges though FMJ would likely do almost as well. Also carry a 12 gauge Mossberg with slugs. More power but not always at hand.


Take Care
 
My idea of camping is the local Holiday Inn, but if I ever did venture into the woods to spend some time, I wouldn't give a damn about the firearms regs for the area- something with a trigger attached is going with me
 
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