Load Master vs. Pro 1000

[Arkansas Paul]

We're thinking of making the jump to progressive for handgun stuff and I've heard nothing but negative about the Lee Pro 1000 and how you spend more time tinkering with them than you do loading on them.

My question is, is the Load Master any better about this? I've watched the Youtube videos and it seems like a solid enough press. But to anyone who has loaded on one, do you spend a lot of time tinkering with it? We want to crank them out a little faster, but I don't have the patience to work on it for a half hour every time I want to load. And I can't afford a 550 right now.

I'm thinking of just going with the Lee 4 hole turret with auto index and meeting in the middle between single stage and progressive.

What do you guys think?

 

[john wall]

The Lee progressives are junk. Go for the Dillon. Night and day.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Trust me, if I had the funds for a Dillon, I would not be considering a Lee.

 

[oldpapps]

I have a Pro 1000.

A Dillon it is not and costs a lot less.
Keep the friction points lubed (just a little on the twisty shaft in the middle), make full, complete up and down strokes, build your rhythm for speed and good quality ammunition is made for a lot lower hardware prices.
No, I don't like the 'chain' pull charging thing. I do like and use the 'push-up' LEE charging system. Get the adjustable unit so you can set your charge not pick the closest.

If I had gobs of cash, I too would go for a Dillon.

 

[Lost Sheep]

We're thinking of making the jump to progressive for handgun stuff and I've heard nothing but negative about the Lee Pro 1000 and how you spend more time tinkering with them than you do loading on them.

My question is, is the Load Master any better about this? I've watched the Youtube videos and it seems like a solid enough press. But to anyone who has loaded on one, do you spend a lot of time tinkering with it? We want to crank them out a little faster, but I don't have the patience to work on it for a half hour every time I want to load. And I can't afford a 550 right now.

I'm thinking of just going with the Lee 4 hole turret with auto index and meeting in the middle between single stage and progressive.

What do you guys think?

I started with RCBS single stage for a couple of years, but traded up to a pair of Lee Pro-100 presses. I never got used to monitoring multiple simultaneous operations, but stuck with them for a few decades. The increase in production rate was worth it.

But I did have to watch the primer feed like a hawk. Remembering to place a bullets on case mouths and watching my powder measure made me a nervous wreck.

In 2010 I replaced nearly every tool on my loading bench with the best money could buy (which also fit my loading needs).

www.rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-...you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

The Lee Classic Turret matched the production rate of my Pro-1000s, was ten times easier to change calibers with and, at the end of a loading session, I was relaxed.

The Pro-1000 press design is not a bad one. The ones I got were used, so might not have been as perfect as new ones and I did not have the case feeder (so had to deliver the cases by hand), so my Pro-1000s may have been operating at a disadvantage from the beginning. Being able to get one round for every stroke of the handle is great. The primer feeding problems are 80%-90% due to letting the primer feed get down to fewer than 4 primers (either at the end of the batch or when the primers would bridge at the mouth of the feed chute).

These factors can be dealt with. Having had experience with the Pro-1000, I would try the Loadmaster (but that's just me, because I tried the Pro-1000). Or save up and get a Dillon. More affordable than you might think. Square Deal if you will have only one high-volume caliber. 550 if you will swap calibers with any frequency.

Lost Sheep

Wow! bds hit the nail(s) on the head in post #6. Excellent, comprehensive post and GREAT pictures.

My approval of your post is helped by the fact that it ratifies my experiences with my Pro-1000s and clears up one unresolved question, (what caused the tilted primers I experienced occasionally).

Thanks, bds.

 

[LiveLife]

Arkansas Paul, I was trained to reload on Dillon 550 and Pro 1000 by a bullseye match shooter who was a stickler for consistency and accuracy. Yes, Dillon is very good and if you had the funds, I would recommend the 550/650 any day. But he had me load my USPSA match rounds on both presses and my pistols could not tell the difference as they (1911/Sig226) produced the same size shot groups.

But as to Pro 1000, this is my perspective.

The primary issue with Pro 1000 centers around the gravity based primer feed attachment.

1. If the feed ramp is not kept clean or full, insufficient weight of primers (especially small primers) won't push another primer into station to prime the case. The solution to this problem is simple - keep the primer feed ramp clean and full.

2. Tula/Wolf primers (especially LP primers) have slightly larger diameter cups than Winchester/CCI and will cause more trouble with smooth/reliable seating of primers. When I help set up reloaders to Pro 1000, I have them try Tula/Wolf primers then Winchster/CCI and they definitely can notice the difference between the primer types. By far, Magtech primers have been the smoothest primers to feed on Pro 1000 along with Winchester/CCI second. Can you use Tula/Wolf primers on Pro 1000 if that's all you can find? Sure, but you will experience a lot of hassle seating them while Winchester/CCI will seat much easier in comparison.

3. If powder/debri falls around the primer push rod (see picture above), it will settle at the bottom of the rod tube and prevent the rod from dropping down all the way flush with the feed ramp surface. When this happens, primer sliding into station will tip and push up against the bottom of the shellplate (pushed up by the primer rod coming up to seat the primer) and this will prevent the rotation of shellplate and make the reloader use choice 4 letter words.

When this happens, solution is to clear the debri so the top of the primer push rod falls down flush/below the feed ramp surface. You do this by removing the index hex rod > removing the shell plate > pull off the primer feed attachment > remove primer push rod and spring > clean the tube bottom > Reinstall everything.

If the reloader is unaware of this process and keeps forcing the ram lever, the tilted primer will gouge the plastic feed ramp surface and prevent smooth sliding of primers into station, which will make the reloader use even more choice 4 letter words and starts posting on gun/reloading forums that Pro 1000 is junk and finicky that requires a lot of tinkering.

To keep feed ramp surfaces smooth so primers slide easily into station right on top of the primer push rod, I occasionally burnish the plastic feed ramp surfaces with a folded piece of copy paper. Of course, if the feed ramp surface is too far damaged, it needs to be replaced for proper function.

Two left pictures are before pictures and two right pictures are new/burnished attachments. If your primer feed attachment is damaged beyond repair, replace the primer feed attachment for smooth operation.

Many people comment that they need to tinker with the Pro 1000. This is my extent of tinkering:

- Clean and lube moving metal contact surfaces (need to do for all press)
- Check shell plate timing (need to do for all progressive press)
- Fill powder measure hopper with powder and check drops with a scale until consistent (need to do for all progressive press)
- Check primer feed attachment/primer push rod and fill with primers (need to do for all progressive press)
- Check case feeder function and fill with case (need to do for all progressive press with case feeder)
- Start reloading session and replace reloading supplies as they run out (need to do for all progressive press)
- During the reloading session, if the indexing of the shellplate is not smooth, I will apply more lube to the index hex rod and cycle until smooth
- Once the shellplate timing is set, it is usually good for 10K-20K+ reloading cycles but if it needs adjusting, it's simply done with a Phillips screwdriver.

This is the extent of my "tinkering" with the Pro 1000. My reloading session typically runs 500 to 2000+ rounds. I have a Lee Classic Turret and two Pro 1000 (setup for 45 and 9/40 as they use the same #19 shellplate/small primer feed attachment). While the LCT will load around 250+ rounds an hour, due to the case feeder, Pro 1000 will load 650+ rounds an hour.

If you do decide to get the Pro 1000, this support thread will help - http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-507454.html#post7877744

 

[floydster]

Why do the Dillon monks have to post without any input--the guy was asking about Lee presses.
Very good post bds.

Smokeyloads

 

[wild willy]

If you load in the hundreds instead of thousands at a time.And load multiple calipers.The Lee turret press works great.I don't know anything about the Loadmaster or pro 1000 I have a Hornady LNL AP for the caliber I shoot more. Use the turret for the rest.My turret press is old got it when they first came out changed it to 4 hole.For the amount I have been shooting lately the turret would be all I need

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I bought my first Pro1000 in 1995 or their abouts. I've been loading on it for all this time and really, after buy a Hornady LNL-AP and putting a case feeder on it, I still have no complaints about the pro1000 and have no plans to quit using it any time soon.

I use the pro1000 for .357mags and the LNL-AP w/case feeder for 9mm.

Yes, the Hornady is a much better feeling machine, and appearance wise, looks the superior of the pro1000 many times over, but the pro1000 will keep up to the Hornady stroke for stroke and makes just as accurate ammo as the Hornady does or any other progressive press will . I have the .357mag parts for the Hornady but have never used them.
I can get around 500 to 600 rounds an hour off of either one with no problem.

In all seriousness, if I need another progressive press (which I'm considering now) I will buy another pro1000, but like I already said, I have a LNL-AP for any other caliber that isn't available in the pro1000. I''ve never had a loadmaster so I won't comment on them.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Thanks for the info guys. bds, that was very informative and helpful.
We may be taking the plunge soon. The Load Master just looks like a very strong machine and used many of the same parts as the pro 1000, such as the priming system, and the perfect powder measure. The priming system I've heard the same things about both, that you have to fill them before they're all the way empty, but that shouldn't be a problem.
You can get them from Midway for $244 and that's set up to load one caliber. Caliber changes are easy and inexpensive, so it's probably the way we will go.

 

[kingmt]

I have a Pro1000 & the Load Master. I like both presses. They both work fine. The only problems with ether judge been caused by me. I however don't blame my tools I get to know them instead. I don't keep junk told ether. If it can't do the job it should I get raid of it.

I actually prefer the Pro1000 because of it's simplicity. It is faster to setup & a lot creeper to but accessories for. There was one thing that didn't work on the press for me & that was the finished round ejector. I used a paper clip to see if I could bent the wire to a better angle. The paper clip works so well I left it.

The Load Master works well also but is a little slow to setup. The more I use it the less I prefer the Pro1000 over it.
I have a LNL also but is rather use the Lee's.

 

[LiveLife]

Yes, the bent wire trick works really well. I bent the ejector wire into the shape shown below and it works well with 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP cases - they all tip over and fall down the chute each and everytime now. The key is bending the wire to push out the case earlier so the finished rounds tip over/down the chute instead of sliding off the shellplate near the top to be hung up on the chute.

 

[clutch]

I've been reloading on a loadmaster for a number of years. Yes, some day I'll own a Dillon, maybe it will only be set up on one cartridge but I'll own one.

The best way to deploy a loadmaster is to use it and the case feeder to de-prime and size your cases.

Then I use a hand primer to put primers in. Something you can do watching tv, it is very mindless stuff. You have feel so a crimped pocket will show up and you can back off.

Now with all that primed brass, I run it through to powder charge, neck expand, seat bullets and crimp.

Yes, more work but way faster than a single stage.

That is where I'm at right now.

 

[beeenbag]

I just setup my pro 1000 about a month ago, I had been using a rock chucker and a lee classic turret. The pro 1000 took a little getting used to, probably the case with any progressive, but after about 100 rounds of fooling with it, I have no problems and run around 500+ rounds an hour at a relaxed pace.

things I have found:

I like unique and so does the pro 1000, the flakes are big enough to not leak much and also if something happens to a primer it won't leak out of the flash hole.

keep the primer tray fairly full. I watch my primers fall every stroke so I know that it is working properly. Once my tray is empty but the chute is still full, I will load 2-3 more rounds then fill it back up.

keep everything well lubed. It can get a little stubborn if you let something run dry. This is with anything mechanical though.

Don't force anything. If I run into a problem, I stop, clear all the stations, fix the problem, then start again. Something like this may happen on average about every 600-700 rounds, in my experiences. Most of the time the first place to look is the priming system.

I built a spacer to go between my press and my bench with a gate latch on one side to open up and clean the spent primers out from under the press. This has worked great. I can snap a pic of it if anyone wants. It kept me from drilling a big hole in my bench. The only holes drilled were the mounting holes.

Thats about all I can think of for now. If I had it to do over again, I would definately buy this press again, for the money, I just don't think it can be beat.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Legion I'm curious. What's a ballpark figure on the number of rounds you've loaded on a Load Master? Just wondering if your views are based on actual hands on experience.

 

[floydster]

Legion, you and John should get together and hold hands.

Smokeyloads

 

[SSN Vet]

Hey Paul,

I just set up a LM and will share some thoughts...

1. Set up took a couple nights, as my press was whacked out of alignment (packaging was inadequate imo) during shipment. I also had a small problem with my index rod flipper being bound up and not rotating properly, but I was able to solve that by cleaning up some threads. You should expect to expend some time and energy learning how to set the press up correctly. Reading the instructions is a must.
2. The Loadmaster videos and Ultimate Reloader web sights and forum is an awesome resource. Lees videos are good as well.
3. Once you get it indexing properly, and pull the handle a hundred times, it's a VERY smooth running press.
4. The primer feeders were revised in 2011, and Lee appears to have all the bugs worked out. I've loaded up ~500 9x19s and have not had a single primer misdeed. Priming has always been the Achilles heal of the press... And priming 9mm is probably the biggest source of complaints with the press. but again.... I have had zero priming problems.
5. Buy the case collating funnel... It works quite well.
6. If your not experienced at progressive reloading, stand by to be initially overwhelmed, as there is a lot going on at one time. And if you have a problem (i.e. A crimped primer that doesn't de-prime properly) you'll have to scratch your head a little to identify
what the problem is.

For the money it's a darn good press!

 

[280shooter]

i have a 1000 set up for 44 mag, I never got it to work. I sent it back. n they sent it back to me the way i sent it to them,, I just stuck it under my bench, and there is does a great job of holding down my containers of brass,,,100 bucks back then, not sure what they go for now, im sure they work for others, it just didnt work for me,

 

[kingmt]

<...OT comment...>

Both the Pro1000 & Load Master prime great for me so there it's no way I'd take a case off the press to hand prime. I had all kinds of problems with 9mm until I figured out the primers were crimped. Now I swage all new to me brass.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I get this sneaky feeling that Lee presses are like Rock Island 1911s. The people who talk crap about them, don't own one, but everyone who does is pleased.

But there's always the one who thinks his $100 piece of equipment should function as efficiently as a $1000 piece of equipment and when it doesn't quiet meet those standards, it is automatically junk.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Dillon is the best progressive press on the market. However, a Dillon is going to be a little further down the road for me, and many like me. I think we're gonna give the Load Master a whirl. If we don't like it, oh well. I'll sell it to kingmt.

 

[LiveLife]

Legion I'm curious. What's a ballpark figure on the number of rounds you've loaded on a Load Master? Just wondering if your views are based on actual hands on experience.

Paul, I reloaded over 125,000 rounds on my first Pro 1000 bought from FM Reloading but I was an impatient "newbie" reloader with it. I was newly married 19 years ago, about the same time I started reloading and took out my marital frustration on the poor Pro 1000. Even then, it still reloaded well but the linkage holes had elongated from abusing the press without lubrication.

Lee Precision offered to rebuild it to factory specs for 50% cost of new, but I had too much negative "marital" anchoring and I retired the press. I bought a new Pro 1000 kit from MidwayUSA ($149 on sale). Since then, I have been kinder to the new press and religiously used Breakfree CLP as the primary lubricant (I don't use a cleaner, just Breakfree CLP and wipe off with Kleenex Viva paper towel). Now, I have well exceeded 300,000+ rounds reloaded total (so over 175,000 rounds on the new press). Last year, I picked up a near new but slightly corroded Pro 1000 kit from a gun show vendor I know well for less than $60 for the whole kit including a set of dies. It is now set up dedicated for 45 ACP loads.

Just this past Christmas, my wife must have felt guilty and told me that I should buy whatever press I want to use the next 8 years to retirement after saying "But will it load any more accurate rounds?" for decades whenever I drooled over wanting to buy a Dillon 550/650/1050. I even seriously considered buying a Hornady LNL AP. As I used various Dillon/Hornady progressive presses my friends' have, I kept telling myself these:

- Price and brand aside, the Pro 1000 produces very accurate, match grade 45ACP, 40S&W and 9mm rounds for me. Pro Auto Disk powder measure will meter most ball/small flake powders like W231/WST/WSF/AutoComp/HP-38/Titegroup/Clays/Universal/HS-6/Bullseye/Green Dot/PowerPistol with less than .05 - .1 gr drop-to-drop. Because the Pro Auto Disk uses fixed volumetric disks, the powder drops cannot drift like other powder measures even after 2000+ reloading cycles.

- With quality jacketed match bullets like Montana Gold, I get very consistent OALs that vary less than .001" and most plated/lead bullets by less than .002". Even though I seat and taper crimp in the same step, I get consistent taper crimp measurable to .001" and do not shave the side of the bullet using Missouri/Dardas/Mastercast/ZCast lead bullets (unless I get an occasional case with inconsistent case wall thickness).

For high volume pistol progressive press, Pro 1000 is hard to beat with lowest cost caliber changes. If you want to load rifle cases longer than .223/7.62x39, then choice would be Load Master.

BTW FM Reloading is selling the Pro 1000 kit for $158 and MidwayUSA is selling the Load Master kit on sale for $219 until 2/28/13

 

[savanahsdad]

Legion I'm curious. What's a ballpark figure on the number of rounds you've loaded on a Load Master? Just wondering if your views are based on actual hands on experience.

Paul, you should click on his name and go read some of his posts, !! he's just a hater,

I have a LOADMASTER, works great , I load 44mag, 357mag, 9X19, 45acp, 380auto and I have a friend that got one back about 1988 or so thats all he has , and only loads 9X19 for his 2 Brerreta M9's right after the US Army went too the M9's he had to have one ,so I know he was about 21 years old at the time , and wanted to shoot a lot ! so he bought the Loadmaster over the last 25 years , with kids , work and life, it has sat at times for 2 or 3 years at a crack, then he gets the shooting bug again, fills it up and punches out 400-500 rounds then covers it back up tell next time, last I check with him ,that is all he has , no other press, or tools , so if a young 21 year old kid can run one with no other reloading experience and do so for many years , well........... that should tell ya something,

I have had mine for maybe 8 years ? I'd have to go through my Cristmas pics, to be sure , as the wife got it for me , one of my greatest Cristmas gifts ever,

 

[savanahsdad]

Legion, you and John should get together and hold hands.

Smokeyloads

thats just too funny

by the way if I ever get anything else BLUE I will not post it on here , same reason I woun't drive a PetterBuilt I don't want to be "THAT GUY !"

 

[noylj]

First: All progressive presses have their weak point--the primer system. All need to be kept very clean. The one I found the least need for absolute cleanliness was the L-N-L, and that wasn't much different than the others.
I deprime all my brass prior to cleaning. This eliminates the "white powder" primer residue from getting into the works. Buy a $27 Lee Reloading Press and a Lee Universal Depriming Die and have at it.

The Load Master seats the primer in a dedicated station, thus you only have four stations for reloading. This is better than the Pro 1000 with only three stations.
If you can afford it, I love the Hornady L-N-L AP. The only progressive I consider better, unless you really NEED a case collator/feeder, is the Dillon 1050. I currently have three and my son has my L-N-L.
I wouldn't own a progressive with less than 5 stations, but that is me.
If I had your choice, I would go to the LoadMaster forum and ask them--though you certainly have some better responses above than the normal "buy Dillon, 'cause I did." It really probably goes to which ever has a better/more reliable priming system (I suspect that it might just be the Pro 1000). Again, 75% of priming problems are solved by NOT depriming on the press--but I've only been using progressive presses for 35 years.

 

[kingmt]

<...OT comment...>

Lee had always went out of their way for me & replaced things they shouldn't have because I broke it. Even when I have argued them to pay for things they won't hear of it. I've bought other things when they replaced parts & tried to pay the shipping & they won't even let me do that. Only time I've been unhappy with them is when I bought stuff 4 years ago when they couldn't build stuff fast enough & there QC took some time off. There was nothing that wouldn't work that I was sending back but I wanted them to know I didn't like getting my parts full of machining chips & prossaty(spelling). The guy I spoke to acted like he didn't care. He just said if it ever breaks we'll replaced it.