cool45auto
Member
Looks like the signs were there.
Lockheed shooting
- Thread starter Justin
- Start date
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Looks like the signs were there.Aside, Lockheed Martin was one of the best employers I ever worked for.
They took a real interest in the well-being and safety of the workers.
Unfortunately, their brand of "safety" does not include the worker being able to defend his life.
BamBam...the news medias instant use of "angry white male".........it's enough to make you want to vomit isn't it!
They took a real interest in the well-being and safety of the workers.
Unfortunately, their brand of "safety" does not include the worker being able to defend his life.
BamBam...the news medias instant use of "angry white male".........it's enough to make you want to vomit isn't it!
RAY WOODROW 3RD
Member
I work for Lockheed in NJ. No guns/knives/etc. allowed on the premises.
Security Guards? No guns allowed on their person.
Security can carry NOTHING to defend us and Lockheed will not allow us to do it for ourselves.
All Security can do is say, " Halt!" and write up an incident report while calling the police.
Lockheed is a GREAT place to work and at least the NJ plant is full of progunners. I should know. I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop where management starts to ask the workers, "If you know somweone who shoots or owns firearms please report their names to human resources person XXXXXXXXX."
That is just how the game is played my friends. They and all the other companies we work for never will get a clue. To much of a liability I guess.
To the families that lost someone or had someone injured, my prayers are with you. Blame the man. Not the tool.
Security Guards? No guns allowed on their person.
Security can carry NOTHING to defend us and Lockheed will not allow us to do it for ourselves.
All Security can do is say, " Halt!" and write up an incident report while calling the police.
Lockheed is a GREAT place to work and at least the NJ plant is full of progunners. I should know. I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop where management starts to ask the workers, "If you know somweone who shoots or owns firearms please report their names to human resources person XXXXXXXXX."
That is just how the game is played my friends. They and all the other companies we work for never will get a clue. To much of a liability I guess.
To the families that lost someone or had someone injured, my prayers are with you. Blame the man. Not the tool.
aerod1
Member
I pray for the families who lost loved ones. It is truely a tragic act of a murderous, derainged individual.
I heard the guns were a shotgun and a 223 caliber semi-automatic rifle.
May God bless the souls of those who were murdered.
Jim Hall
I heard the guns were a shotgun and a 223 caliber semi-automatic rifle.
May God bless the souls of those who were murdered.
Jim Hall
brookstexas
member
I find it funny and typical
That a week ago in California a much more sensational murder of this sort happened with hardly any coverage.
A former employee of a Albertsons supermarket who was obsessed with the "Highlander" movies and TV show appeared in a black trenchcoat, pulled out a Samaraui sword and hacked three people to death and injured many more causing almost 50 people to flee.
Americans are used to workplace shootings but getting dismembered by the frozen foods? Hardly a blip on the news radar.
If that would have been a store in Texas I doubt he would have needed to wait for the police to be shot to death.
As far as the Lockheed shootings when is some bright attorney going to sue THEM as they don't allow guns in the workplace but also don't provide you with protection?
BT
That a week ago in California a much more sensational murder of this sort happened with hardly any coverage.
A former employee of a Albertsons supermarket who was obsessed with the "Highlander" movies and TV show appeared in a black trenchcoat, pulled out a Samaraui sword and hacked three people to death and injured many more causing almost 50 people to flee.
Americans are used to workplace shootings but getting dismembered by the frozen foods? Hardly a blip on the news radar.
If that would have been a store in Texas I doubt he would have needed to wait for the police to be shot to death.
As far as the Lockheed shootings when is some bright attorney going to sue THEM as they don't allow guns in the workplace but also don't provide you with protection?
BT
another okie
Member
The world is indeed a stressful place today, but I don't really believe these sorts of things are all that new. The peasants used to get tired of working for nothing and occasionally just smash everyone and everything they could reach. We just have better media.
0007
Member
No mention of the race of his victims means probably none were the minorities that he supposedly hated. Time to re-write the "aw" ban to include shotguns :banghead: :banghead:
As a former employee of LM and having worked in a plant similar to this one, I have to wonder why somebody didn't start throwing things at the guy. Wrenches, screwdrivers, tools of any kind. It must be the mindset of the times - "someone will come and take care of this problem/me.
As a former employee of LM and having worked in a plant similar to this one, I have to wonder why somebody didn't start throwing things at the guy. Wrenches, screwdrivers, tools of any kind. It must be the mindset of the times - "someone will come and take care of this problem/me.
12GA
Member
All deaths came by way of the shotgun
and it doesn't appear that the .223 rifle was even fired. Victims appear to have been chosen randomly. Eight of the 14 shooting victims were black, including four of the five fatalities.
Police Seek Plant Shooting Motive
Miss. Police Seek Plant Shooting Motive
By MATT VOLZ, Associated Press
Last updated: 8:35 a.m., Wednesday, July 9, 2003
MERIDIAN, Miss. -- Police were trying to determine why an assembly-line worker described as "mad at the world" left a business meeting at an aircraft parts plant only to return and gun down 14 colleagues, killing five.
Doug Williams shot himself Tuesday following his lethal rampage at the Lockheed Martin plant. Co-workers said the 48-year-old worker had had run-ins with management and several fellow employees.
Some of the 138 employees at the plant said Williams, who was white, was known as a racist who did not like blacks. Eight of the 14 shooting victims were black, including four of the five fatalities.
Nevertheless, Sheriff Billy Sollie said it appeared Williams fired at random. "There was no indication it involved race or gender as far as his targets were concerned," Sollie said.
Hubert Threat, who has worked at the Lockheed Martin plant since the 1980s, said Williams was "mad at the world." He said Williams, employed at the plant since 1984, had a big heart, "but then 'boom!' it's like Jekyll and Hyde."
"This man had an issue with everybody," Threat said. "It's not just about race. It was just the excuse he was looking for."
The shooting stunned residents of Meridian, a city of 40,000 near the Alabama line whose economy is largely dependent on the military. It's home to the Lockheed plant, a naval air station and an Air National Guard training center.
"We know one another, almost everyone knows someone who works in the building, or has a relative who works in the building," said Craig Hitt, president of the Lauderdale County Board of Supervisors.
Williams and other employees were attending an annual business ethics meeting that the company requires of all its workers when he left. He returned with a 12-gauge shotgun, a .223-caliber semiautomatic rifle and a bandolier of ammunition.
Police said Williams, dressed in a black T-shirt and camouflage pants, shot several of the meeting's participants in an annex next to the plant before moving on to the main factory, where he shot at least three others.
Several co-workers said they were not surprised when Williams was identified as the killer.
"When I first heard about it, he was the first thing that came to my mind," said Jim Payton, who is retired from the plant but had worked with Williams for about a year.
One victim was Lanette McCall of Cuba, Ala., 47, a black woman who had worked at the plant 15 years. Her husband, Bobby McCall, said she expected Williams to harm someone someday and that Williams had made racist threats in the past.
"Obviously he was sick," McCall said. "I wish somebody had given him some help before he ... destroyed my life and my kids' life."
The other dead were identified as Micky Fitzgerald, 45, of Little Rock, Miss.; Sam Cockrell, 46, of Meridian; Charlie Miller, 58, of Meridian; and Thomas Willis, 57, of Lisman, Ala.
"We're going to turn this thing around," said John Willis, Thomas Willis' nephew and a local pastor. "This is life. God in some way will help us get through it."
Sollie said all the shooting victims had been hit by shotgun blasts and there was no evidence the rifle had been fired. Authorities said three other guns were found in Williams' truck in the parking lot.
It was the nation's deadliest workplace shooting since a software tester in Wakefield, Mass., killed seven people the day after Christmas in 2000.
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics president Dain Hancock called the shootings "a horrible tragedy, a senseless crime." The plant, located near Meridian, builds parts for C-130J Hercules transport planes and vertical stabilizers for F-22 Raptor fighter jets.
"There are no words that can express the amount sorrow that has been felt by all of those who have been touched," Hancock said. He said the company will provide emotional and financial support for workers at the Mississippi plant.
Gov. Ronnie Musgrove said: "Mississippi's family grieves today for this senseless tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those lost."
Lockheed Martin is the biggest defense contractor in the United States. The corporation had sales of $24 billion in 2001 and employs about 125,000 people.
and it doesn't appear that the .223 rifle was even fired. Victims appear to have been chosen randomly. Eight of the 14 shooting victims were black, including four of the five fatalities.
Police Seek Plant Shooting Motive
Miss. Police Seek Plant Shooting Motive
By MATT VOLZ, Associated Press
Last updated: 8:35 a.m., Wednesday, July 9, 2003
MERIDIAN, Miss. -- Police were trying to determine why an assembly-line worker described as "mad at the world" left a business meeting at an aircraft parts plant only to return and gun down 14 colleagues, killing five.
Doug Williams shot himself Tuesday following his lethal rampage at the Lockheed Martin plant. Co-workers said the 48-year-old worker had had run-ins with management and several fellow employees.
Some of the 138 employees at the plant said Williams, who was white, was known as a racist who did not like blacks. Eight of the 14 shooting victims were black, including four of the five fatalities.
Nevertheless, Sheriff Billy Sollie said it appeared Williams fired at random. "There was no indication it involved race or gender as far as his targets were concerned," Sollie said.
Hubert Threat, who has worked at the Lockheed Martin plant since the 1980s, said Williams was "mad at the world." He said Williams, employed at the plant since 1984, had a big heart, "but then 'boom!' it's like Jekyll and Hyde."
"This man had an issue with everybody," Threat said. "It's not just about race. It was just the excuse he was looking for."
The shooting stunned residents of Meridian, a city of 40,000 near the Alabama line whose economy is largely dependent on the military. It's home to the Lockheed plant, a naval air station and an Air National Guard training center.
"We know one another, almost everyone knows someone who works in the building, or has a relative who works in the building," said Craig Hitt, president of the Lauderdale County Board of Supervisors.
Williams and other employees were attending an annual business ethics meeting that the company requires of all its workers when he left. He returned with a 12-gauge shotgun, a .223-caliber semiautomatic rifle and a bandolier of ammunition.
Police said Williams, dressed in a black T-shirt and camouflage pants, shot several of the meeting's participants in an annex next to the plant before moving on to the main factory, where he shot at least three others.
Several co-workers said they were not surprised when Williams was identified as the killer.
"When I first heard about it, he was the first thing that came to my mind," said Jim Payton, who is retired from the plant but had worked with Williams for about a year.
One victim was Lanette McCall of Cuba, Ala., 47, a black woman who had worked at the plant 15 years. Her husband, Bobby McCall, said she expected Williams to harm someone someday and that Williams had made racist threats in the past.
"Obviously he was sick," McCall said. "I wish somebody had given him some help before he ... destroyed my life and my kids' life."
The other dead were identified as Micky Fitzgerald, 45, of Little Rock, Miss.; Sam Cockrell, 46, of Meridian; Charlie Miller, 58, of Meridian; and Thomas Willis, 57, of Lisman, Ala.
"We're going to turn this thing around," said John Willis, Thomas Willis' nephew and a local pastor. "This is life. God in some way will help us get through it."
Sollie said all the shooting victims had been hit by shotgun blasts and there was no evidence the rifle had been fired. Authorities said three other guns were found in Williams' truck in the parking lot.
It was the nation's deadliest workplace shooting since a software tester in Wakefield, Mass., killed seven people the day after Christmas in 2000.
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics president Dain Hancock called the shootings "a horrible tragedy, a senseless crime." The plant, located near Meridian, builds parts for C-130J Hercules transport planes and vertical stabilizers for F-22 Raptor fighter jets.
"There are no words that can express the amount sorrow that has been felt by all of those who have been touched," Hancock said. He said the company will provide emotional and financial support for workers at the Mississippi plant.
Gov. Ronnie Musgrove said: "Mississippi's family grieves today for this senseless tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those lost."
Lockheed Martin is the biggest defense contractor in the United States. The corporation had sales of $24 billion in 2001 and employs about 125,000 people.
BamBam
Member
If you can't see the liberal bias in these two paragraphs, you are too brainwashed to be saved.
BamBam
Apple a Day
Member
I was just thinking of the stock market crash right before the Great Depression. People made morbid jokes about it raining stock brokers as many of them were jumping out of windows or otherwise bumping themselves off. No mention of any of them walking in and mowing down their coworkers when the bottom fell out, even with the access to firearms.
Someone refresh my historical memory; was that before or after the fed. gov. started restricting automatic weapons? I remember seeing an ad for the Thompson submachine gun marketing towards civilians- it had a cowboy with a tommygun on it but can't recall the year.
What a different mindset.
Someone refresh my historical memory; was that before or after the fed. gov. started restricting automatic weapons? I remember seeing an ad for the Thompson submachine gun marketing towards civilians- it had a cowboy with a tommygun on it but can't recall the year.
What a different mindset.
Pebcac
Member
Apple, you make an excellent point! Still, antis will ignore it like they do all other common sense, even when it's obvious. That's because the societal mindset has changed. Back then, it was, "What am I going to do now?" Today, it's "Who's fault is this, who can I blame, because my happiness isn't my responsibility. It's society's fault." Our culture today is not one of personal responsibility; rather, it's a collective blame game.
I feel really bad for the lost and their families, especially because of the pointlessness of the deaths. One guy is a non-coping loser, so he whacks people he works with because "it's not his fault."
I feel really bad for the lost and their families, especially because of the pointlessness of the deaths. One guy is a non-coping loser, so he whacks people he works with because "it's not his fault."
RustyHammer
Member
They don't need guns (CCW), Security was on top of things! (Yeah, right)
This is a good example of why people SHOULD be allowed to fully exercise their Second Amendment Rights, should they so desire.
Very sad.
This is a good example of why people SHOULD be allowed to fully exercise their Second Amendment Rights, should they so desire.
Very sad.
Wayne D
Member
I believe the stock market crash was in 1929 and the machine gun law was in 1934.
braindead0
Member
We need to make it too much of a liability *not* to allow CCW. I'm not sure if it could be a good case, but if you are denied the means of self defense by an employer, doesn't that employer take on the responsibility?
gun-fucious
Member
Stress/Violence in the Workplace
The post by SHAGGY nailed it best. Most people nowadays feel that they are "owed" everything. I see these attitudes and the enormity of the problems they generate on a daily basis. For anyone interested, there's a book entitled "Toxic Coworkers" 'How to Deal with Dysfunctional People on the Job'. The book is a real eye opener. There's alot more of these boaderline sociopaths out there than you might think. Recognising the personality disorders and knowing ahead of time who the dangerous ones are might give you the advantage ...
The post by SHAGGY nailed it best. Most people nowadays feel that they are "owed" everything. I see these attitudes and the enormity of the problems they generate on a daily basis. For anyone interested, there's a book entitled "Toxic Coworkers" 'How to Deal with Dysfunctional People on the Job'. The book is a real eye opener. There's alot more of these boaderline sociopaths out there than you might think. Recognising the personality disorders and knowing ahead of time who the dangerous ones are might give you the advantage ...
gun-fucious
Member
Press Release
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
United with the Million Mom March
1225 Eye Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005
www.bradycampaign.org
Contact:
Peter Hamm
Phone: 202-898-0792
Washington, DC - Mike Barnes, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun
Violence United with the Million Mom March, released the following statement:
"This morning, a tragic shooting occurred at a Lockheed Martin plant near
Meridian, Mississippi. As of now, six are dead including the gunman, and at least
eight others are injured. Our thoughts go out to the families of those lost,
as well as the injured people and their families.
"We need to do everything in our power to support law enforcement as they
sort out the terrible details of his horrible crime. In the wake of yet another
horrible mass shooting, Congress and President Bush need no more reminders of
why they should work to re-authorize and strengthen the federal ban on assault
weapons. While we don't yet know what weapon was used in this tragedy, we do
know that rapid-fire assault weapons are designed for this type of terrible
assault."
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
United with the Million Mom March
1225 Eye Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005
www.bradycampaign.org
Contact:
Peter Hamm
Phone: 202-898-0792
Washington, DC - Mike Barnes, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun
Violence United with the Million Mom March, released the following statement:
"This morning, a tragic shooting occurred at a Lockheed Martin plant near
Meridian, Mississippi. As of now, six are dead including the gunman, and at least
eight others are injured. Our thoughts go out to the families of those lost,
as well as the injured people and their families.
"We need to do everything in our power to support law enforcement as they
sort out the terrible details of his horrible crime. In the wake of yet another
horrible mass shooting, Congress and President Bush need no more reminders of
why they should work to re-authorize and strengthen the federal ban on assault
weapons. While we don't yet know what weapon was used in this tragedy, we do
know that rapid-fire assault weapons are designed for this type of terrible
assault."
Waitone
Member
Can't say Brady is dancing on the graves of the victims because the victims ain't been buried yet! GGGrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I suppose the shotgun will be added to the AWB.
I suppose the shotgun will be added to the AWB.
gun-fucious
Member
Miss. Killer Said to Receive Counseling
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStorie...ry=Nation&BCCode=NATIONMAIN&newsdate=7/9/2003
_
By MATT VOLZ, Associated Press
Last updated: 4:41 a.m., Thursday, July 10, 2003
MERIDIAN, Miss. -- He made threatening remarks at work and was reprimanded. Anger counseling didn't seem to help: co-workers said they continued to fear him.
Doug Williams, the 48-year-old assembly-line worker at a Lockheed Martin aircraft parts plant, had a troubled past long before he walked through the factory this week, spraying gunfire at colleagues.
Five people were killed and nine others injured in Tuesday's rampage before Williams turned the 12-gauge shotgun on himself. That morning he had attended a business ethics meeting on how to get along with co-workers.
"You could see something in his face. He snapped," said Hubert Threatt, a union shop steward who had worked with Williams for 15 years and pleaded with him not to shoot people.
Tuesday was not the first time Williams had had problems at work and company officials know of at least two prior incidents over his 19-year career there, said Dain Hancock, president of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics.
A community memorial service for the victims was to be held Thursday at First Baptist Church in Meridian.
Williams, who was white, had undergone anger counseling at least once in the past couple of years, frustrated because he thought black people had a leg up in society, co-workers said.
They said Williams also was angry that he had been passed over for promotions at the plant. Co-workers said he kept "score" on whoever he thought was offending him.
Hancock said the 2001 confrontation was the only one listed in Williams' personnel file, but that a June 12 incident in which Williams wore a white covering over his head had been reported. He said another employee found the covering offensive. Co-workers have said the covering resembled clothing worn by Ku Klux Klansmen.
Williams chose to leave rather than remove the covering, Hancock said. In what Hancock called a mutual agreement, Williams did not return to work for about five or six days.
"Both incidents were taken seriously and handled promptly," Hancock said. "This company does not tolerate harassment."
Threatt said other employees had expressed concerns to managers about Williams over the years. Threatt said company counselors came to the plant two years ago to work with Williams.
Threatt said Williams was generally quiet after the counseling but once told him: "One of these days, they're going to (expletive) me off and I'm going to come here and shoot some people."
On Tuesday, Williams sat in a meeting with managers, listening to them explain the importance of being honest and responsible in the workplace. Also on the agenda: getting along with co-workers, regardless of their sex or race.
At some point during the meeting Williams walked out of the room, telling co-workers, "Y'all can handle this."
Minutes later, he returned with a shotgun and a rifle. He sprayed the room with shotgun blasts, killing two people, and then continued the rampage on the factory floor, leaving three more co-workers dead before taking his own life.
"He said, `I told you about (expletive) with me,'" said co-worker Brenda Dubose, who had been in the meeting and was shot in the hand.
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStorie...ry=Nation&BCCode=NATIONMAIN&newsdate=7/9/2003
_
By MATT VOLZ, Associated Press
Last updated: 4:41 a.m., Thursday, July 10, 2003
MERIDIAN, Miss. -- He made threatening remarks at work and was reprimanded. Anger counseling didn't seem to help: co-workers said they continued to fear him.
Doug Williams, the 48-year-old assembly-line worker at a Lockheed Martin aircraft parts plant, had a troubled past long before he walked through the factory this week, spraying gunfire at colleagues.
Five people were killed and nine others injured in Tuesday's rampage before Williams turned the 12-gauge shotgun on himself. That morning he had attended a business ethics meeting on how to get along with co-workers.
"You could see something in his face. He snapped," said Hubert Threatt, a union shop steward who had worked with Williams for 15 years and pleaded with him not to shoot people.
Tuesday was not the first time Williams had had problems at work and company officials know of at least two prior incidents over his 19-year career there, said Dain Hancock, president of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics.
A community memorial service for the victims was to be held Thursday at First Baptist Church in Meridian.
Williams, who was white, had undergone anger counseling at least once in the past couple of years, frustrated because he thought black people had a leg up in society, co-workers said.
They said Williams also was angry that he had been passed over for promotions at the plant. Co-workers said he kept "score" on whoever he thought was offending him.
Hancock said the 2001 confrontation was the only one listed in Williams' personnel file, but that a June 12 incident in which Williams wore a white covering over his head had been reported. He said another employee found the covering offensive. Co-workers have said the covering resembled clothing worn by Ku Klux Klansmen.
Williams chose to leave rather than remove the covering, Hancock said. In what Hancock called a mutual agreement, Williams did not return to work for about five or six days.
"Both incidents were taken seriously and handled promptly," Hancock said. "This company does not tolerate harassment."
Threatt said other employees had expressed concerns to managers about Williams over the years. Threatt said company counselors came to the plant two years ago to work with Williams.
Threatt said Williams was generally quiet after the counseling but once told him: "One of these days, they're going to (expletive) me off and I'm going to come here and shoot some people."
On Tuesday, Williams sat in a meeting with managers, listening to them explain the importance of being honest and responsible in the workplace. Also on the agenda: getting along with co-workers, regardless of their sex or race.
At some point during the meeting Williams walked out of the room, telling co-workers, "Y'all can handle this."
Minutes later, he returned with a shotgun and a rifle. He sprayed the room with shotgun blasts, killing two people, and then continued the rampage on the factory floor, leaving three more co-workers dead before taking his own life.
"He said, `I told you about (expletive) with me,'" said co-worker Brenda Dubose, who had been in the meeting and was shot in the hand.
TheOtherOne
Member
Oh, yes, of course. My local gun shops always has a "Co-Worker Assault Special" sign on the AK's and AR's. Carlos Cabeza
Member
I don't have time at work to psycho-analyze every single person in the plant. That should be the responsibility of the management or the HR Dept.
I think your comment does more to incite fear and a fair amount of distrust among co-workers. The man who committed the crime made several remarks as to his potential mental condition and should have been dealt with much sooner. There is little if any indicative behavior that would indentify someone with such extreme potential. The short and sweet of this case is that the man's heart was filled with hate, and nothing could have changed him except himself. Hate in any form is detrimental to growth and limits a man's mind from experiencing more profound and depth defining emotions. Everyone should do whatever necessary to put that emotion away for good and this world would be a much better and safer place.
Waitone
Member
Ah, yes. The ol' woulda, coulda, shoulda argument. About a shallow a form of logic as I've ever seen.
MeekandMild
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2002
- Messages
- 1,877
There is a lot to be said for banning psychobabble in the workplace.
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